Convinced now it's Bevell?

[hawkfan68]

Sherman is going to have a field day [hopefully] with that 4th and inches play.

Sherman's next temper tantrum should be at himself in the mirror and the rest of the defense for giving up 34 pts to a team that's not even in the playoffs...............and we had everything to play for.

The offense did it's share of putting the defense on it's heels. Fumble in their own side of the field, blocked FG, blocked punt, missed extra point. Yes the defense didn't play well but the offense is more to blame for dropping this game, IMO.

The Seahawks offense was about as good as the Cards. See here.

The biggest disappointment to me out of this game aside from the Lockett injury (which was not due the O or the D's performance) was the D (both D's really) giving up as many points as they did. It would have been far more encouraging had this been a low-scoring win because our D is where the Hawks strength is most expected to be.

Terrell may get less playing time this week to give others a shot, it wouldn't surprise me.

They lost this game due to the lack of blocking. The OL was putrid. How many FG attempts, Extra Point attempts, and punts did the Cards have blocked? 0. That's the difference. The defense wasn't great but if the OL could have blocked better on ST, they probably would have won.

 

[LeftHandSmoke]

^ Yep, O and ST blocking is an obvious problem. Otoh RW still managed to throw for 350 yds and 4 TDs which is borderline spectacular.

I still wish the D hadn't given up as much as they did, that was very disappointing and doesn't bode well for our playoff chances.

 

[mikeak]

And the second half of 2015, .

and the second half of the REGULAR season 2015

We most definitely did not use that gameplan that had worked against the Panthers in the first half of the game....

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Some of you guys have forgotten that our offense has ALWAYS been frustratingly inconsistent.............what's changed the last couple of years is the defense. When the defense is sucking up 60-70% of the cap space, they have to perform at a high level every single week.

We paid a LOT of players to play better than they're playing right now.

 

[hawkfan68]

Some of you guys have forgotten that our offense has ALWAYS been frustratingly inconsistent.............what's changed the last couple of years is the defense. When the defense is sucking up 60-70% of the cap space, they have to perform at a high level every single week.

We paid a LOT of players to play better than they're playing right now.

you're correct.....most of the $ has gone to the defense. However, the gap between starters and depth has gotten bigger. Thomas is out, Terrell is his backup. That's a huge drop off. Bennett is coming back from a knee injury. His back up is Marsh, another big drop off. Moore is now on the IR. Moore was doing well while he was healthy, he's now not. So the depth is suffering. Chancellor had been injured early and got hurt during the game. The Cards took advantage of him being out and scored on a deep pass play. Rubin got hurt in the game and was out for a bit. Wagner and Wright have been healthy and are having great years. So is Avril. They all are performing at a high level for the most part this season. The defense is ranked in the top 10 again.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Some of you guys have forgotten that our offense has ALWAYS been frustratingly inconsistent.............what's changed the last couple of years is the defense. When the defense is sucking up 60-70% of the cap space, they have to perform at a high level every single week.

We paid a LOT of players to play better than they're playing right now.

you're correct.....most of the $ has gone to the defense. However, the gap between starters and depth has gotten bigger. Thomas is out, Terrell is his backup. That's a huge drop off. Bennett is coming back from a knee injury. His back up is Marsh, another big drop off. Moore is now on the IR. Moore was doing well while he was healthy, he's now not. So the depth is suffering. Chancellor had been injured early and got hurt during the game. The Cards took advantage of him being out and scored on a deep pass play. Rubin got hurt in the game and was out for a bit. Wagner and Wright have been healthy and are having great years. So is Avril. They all are performing at a high level for the most part this season. The defense is ranked in the top 10 again.

I could say the same about the defense though.

Terrell is a HUGE dropoff from Earl, same with McCray when he played for Kam.........same with mediocre D-line play with Bennett out.

So maybe the real problem is Pete and John have failed with restocking the team with the same depth it had 2-3 years ago. That's certainly the case with the O-line.

 

[mikeak]

Some of you guys have forgotten that our offense has ALWAYS been frustratingly inconsistent.............what's changed the last couple of years is the defense. When the defense is sucking up 60-70% of the cap space, they have to perform at a high level every single week.

We paid a LOT of players to play better than they're playing right now.

With Lynch we were always getting 2-3 yards on the run. That meant that our passing game didn't have to be great to just get another 3-4 yards. It was most often 3rd and short. We put together long sustained drives dinking and dunking it and running for a few yards on every play. We would move the ball that way. Then at times long passes. It drained the opponents even when we only got 3 points out.

So inconsistent in scoring TDs - yes I agree. Inconsistent in taking time off the clock and changing the field position game - in general I disagree (of course it always happens at times).

The issue (from the offensive side only) now is three and outs to often, failure to move the ball, loss in the field position game and to many runs that produce zero yards and yeah a qb that is pressured on every throw who then doesn't help himself by not placing the ball properly and not throwing up to one-on-one matchups enough waiting for guys to be wide open

 

[bandiger]

Some of you guys have forgotten that our offense has ALWAYS been frustratingly inconsistent.............what's changed the last couple of years is the defense. When the defense is sucking up 60-70% of the cap space, they have to perform at a high level every single week.

We paid a LOT of players to play better than they're playing right now.

you're correct.....most of the $ has gone to the defense. However, the gap between starters and depth has gotten bigger. Thomas is out, Terrell is his backup. That's a huge drop off. Bennett is coming back from a knee injury. His back up is Marsh, another big drop off. Moore is now on the IR. Moore was doing well while he was healthy, he's now not. So the depth is suffering. Chancellor had been injured early and got hurt during the game. The Cards took advantage of him being out and scored on a deep pass play. Rubin got hurt in the game and was out for a bit. Wagner and Wright have been healthy and are having great years. So is Avril. They all are performing at a high level for the most part this season. The defense is ranked in the top 10 again.

I could say the same about the defense though.

Terrell is a HUGE dropoff from Earl, same with McCray when he played for Kam.........same with mediocre D-line play with Bennett out.

So maybe the real problem is Pete and John have failed with restocking the team with the same depth it had 2-3 years ago. That's certainly the case with the O-line.

Yes Oline has been a problem since 2012, maybe Cable needs to go. Its always "Cable's guys" that JS drafts. Yeah there are depth issues with DBs that they had to overspend on some scrub like Cary Williams last offseason.

 

[Diezel Dawg]

Some of you guys have forgotten that our offense has ALWAYS been frustratingly inconsistent.............what's changed the last couple of years is the defense. When the defense is sucking up 60-70% of the cap space, they have to perform at a high level every single week.

We paid a LOT of players to play better than they're playing right now.

That's a great point. This is a top 5 defense playing as a Top 10 defense. That's not getting it done. I do feel some of that is on the DC too. We lost some of that aggressiveness when Quinn left. When you scheme to "contain" Erin Rodgers rather than pressure him when he is injured, that's on the coach. But the players are at fault for some of the crap we have seen this year, especially giving up so many rushing TDs this year. That has been very frustrating to watch.

I still have faith this team can right the ship and make some serious noise in the playoffs.

One time I gave up on this team and that was the NFCCG against GB. I told myself I would never do that again as long as RW is QB.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[fenderbender123]

Every fan hates their team's offensive coordinator, or is at least overly critical of them. I focus my criticism on execution. The TD pass to Kearse was perfectly executed, and we scored, so nobody is complaining about it. If we didn't score, everyone would be up in arms about how we tried to go to Kearse instead of running it or throwing it to somebody else because Kearse hasn't been as good this year.

I have yet to see any type of play that consistently gains short yardage for us. We've been stopped for no gain or loss of yardage numerous times this year on runs up the middle, runs to the outside, reverses, rollouts, play-action passes, quick passes, deep drops, etc, and that goes all the way back even to the Marsawn Lynch days.

Criticizing the play-calling is like coming to a fork in a road where each path leads to a cave that has a dragon in it, picking one, and then right before the dragon eats you saying you should have taken the other path to the other cave. I realize this topic is about Bevell in general, so you could absolutely say he's at least partially responsible for not preparing our players well enough, but there are way too many things that you have to consider to find out specifically why the offense fails to execute on so many plays.

I absolutely agree about the defense. We aren't getting very good value out of them this year, regardless of injuries. I'm starting to think that it's better for a team to just keep building and rotating players from the draft, and then using the extra money to sign the best guys available in free agency (preferably pass rushers) to 1 or 2 year deals, while rarely offering a player a new contract after their rookie one expires unless they are willing to play for significantly less than somewhere else. We saw what happened when we had a team full of hungry players on their rookie contracts. It wasn't lucky drafting, it was a culture where there was more competition at multiple positions and more players with a desire to prove something.

 

[cymatica]

Every fan hates their team's offensive coordinator, or is at least overly critical of them. I focus my criticism on execution. The TD pass to Kearse was perfectly executed, and we scored, so nobody is complaining about it. If we didn't score, everyone would be up in arms about how we tried to go to Kearse instead of running it or throwing it to somebody else because Kearse hasn't been as good this year.

I have yet to see any type of play that consistently gains short yardage for us. We've been stopped for no gain or loss of yardage numerous times this year on runs up the middle, runs to the outside, reverses, rollouts, play-action passes, quick passes, deep drops, etc, and that goes all the way back even to the Marsawn Lynch days.

Criticizing the play-calling is like coming to a fork in a road where each path leads to a cave that has a dragon in it, picking one, and then right before the dragon eats you saying you should have taken the other path to the other cave. I realize this topic is about Bevell in general, so you could absolutely say he's at least partially responsible for not preparing our players well enough, but there are way too many things that you have to consider to find out specifically why the offense fails to execute on so many plays.

I absolutely agree about the defense. We aren't getting very good value out of them this year, regardless of injuries. I'm starting to think that it's better for a team to just keep building and rotating players from the draft, and then using the extra money to sign the best guys available in free agency (preferably pass rushers) to 1 or 2 year deals, while rarely offering a player a new contract after their rookie one expires unless they are willing to play for significantly less than somewhere else. We saw what happened when we had a team full of hungry players on their rookie contracts. It wasn't lucky drafting, it was a culture where there was more competition at multiple positions and more players with a desire to prove something.

If the players are constantly being put in a position where they must execute perfectly should that fall on them? When the opposing defense knows what's coming due to predictable route trees/formations and doing the same thing regardless of weaknesses then it makes it easier for them to execute. When you have a bad offensive line and don't play accordingly for a half it makes it easier for the defense to execute. When you have an elite pass catching tight end and don't scheme his strengths it makes it easier for a defense to execute.

 

[sdog1981]

This is going to deal with some observations from around the NFL.

Why is Bevell ok with Cable screwing up his life? Think about that for a minute. Cable has laid a crappy foundation that Bevell has built has an offense on, yet Bevell has not demanded that Cable is fired. Bevell's only option to continue coaching in the NFL is either an OC or a head coach. At this point, Bevell can't expect to get either job with how this offense has performed with Cable laying a shoddy foundation. Is Bevell so weak he can not call out Cable? If so he needs to go. Bevell after last year should have told Pete "It's me or him". Do the coaches not have Tell The Truth Monday? How can you sit there with the overall responsibility of the offense and not turn to Cable every week and say "What the hell are you doing Tom?"
"Why can your guys not learn the basic rules of football Tom?"
"Why can your guys not follow your blocking assignments, Tom?"
"Why do I have a basketball player as my left tackle Tom?"
"Why is my offense starting 1st and 20 Tom?"
"I'm left with two options, Tom. Either you're a bad teacher or these guys you wanted are too dumb. Both reflect poorly on you."

Yet Bevell stays. That is the most damning thing about Bevell he has let Tom Cable poop all over his future career in coaching. This is why Bevell must go. If he is too scared to stand up for himself he will be too scared to innovate on offense. Innovation is inherently scary.

 

[LeftHandSmoke]

My sense of it is that after the Hawks thrashed the Broncos in the Owl, the Broncos cleaned house on D and went all in on a rebuild. In similar fashion, after the shellacking at the Panthers in the playoffs last year the Hawks FO, probably with buyin from all of the O coaches, decided they had to clean house on the OL. A good idea but it's been a struggle so far with how young they are.

 

[hawkfan68]

This is going to deal with some observations from around the NFL.

Why is Bevell ok with Cable screwing up his life? Think about that for a minute. Cable has laid a crappy foundation that Bevell has built has an offense on, yet Bevell has not demanded that Cable is fired. Bevell's only option to continue coaching in the NFL is either an OC or a head coach. At this point, Bevell can't expect to get either job with how this offense has performed with Cable laying a shoddy foundation. Is Bevell so weak he can not call out Cable? If so he needs to go. Bevell after last year should have told Pete "It's me or him". Do the coaches not have Tell The Truth Monday? How can you sit there with the overall responsibility of the offense and not turn to Cable every week and say "What the hell are you doing Tom?"
"Why can your guys not learn the basic rules of football Tom?"
"Why can your guys not follow your blocking assignments, Tom?"
"Why do I have a basketball player as my left tackle Tom?"
"Why is my offense starting 1st and 20 Tom?"
"I'm left with two options, Tom. Either you're a bad teacher or these guys you wanted are too dumb. Both reflect poorly on you."

Yet Bevell stays. That is the most damning thing about Bevell he has let Tom Cable poop all over his future career in coaching. This is why Bevell must go. If he is too scared to stand up for himself he will be too scared to innovate on offense. Innovation is inherently scary.

Cable is the Assistant Head Coach and OL coach. Bevell is the just the offensive coordinator. Cable is higher in the Seahawk food chain based on title than Bevell, thus maybe the reason he isn't calling him out. JS is the Executive VP and GM, while Pete Carroll is the Exec VP of Football Operations and Head Coach. All these guys (Carroll, Schneider, and Cable) have multiple titles.

 

[sdog1981]

This is going to deal with some observations from around the NFL.

Why is Bevell ok with Cable screwing up his life? Think about that for a minute. Cable has laid a crappy foundation that Bevell has built has an offense on, yet Bevell has not demanded that Cable is fired. Bevell's only option to continue coaching in the NFL is either an OC or a head coach. At this point, Bevell can't expect to get either job with how this offense has performed with Cable laying a shoddy foundation. Is Bevell so weak he can not call out Cable? If so he needs to go. Bevell after last year should have told Pete "It's me or him". Do the coaches not have Tell The Truth Monday? How can you sit there with the overall responsibility of the offense and not turn to Cable every week and say "What the hell are you doing Tom?"
"Why can your guys not learn the basic rules of football Tom?"
"Why can your guys not follow your blocking assignments, Tom?"
"Why do I have a basketball player as my left tackle Tom?"
"Why is my offense starting 1st and 20 Tom?"
"I'm left with two options, Tom. Either you're a bad teacher or these guys you wanted are too dumb. Both reflect poorly on you."

Yet Bevell stays. That is the most damning thing about Bevell he has let Tom Cable poop all over his future career in coaching. This is why Bevell must go. If he is too scared to stand up for himself he will be too scared to innovate on offense. Innovation is inherently scary.

Cable is the Assistant Head Coach and OL coach. Bevell is the just the offensive coordinator. Cable is higher in the Seahawk food chain based on title than Bevell, thus maybe the reason he isn't calling him out. JS is the Executive VP and GM, while Pete Carroll is the Exec VP of Football Operations and Head Coach. All these guys (Carroll, Schneider, and Cable) have multiple titles.

Pete needs to blow up the offensive coaching staff this winter. My only fear is they fire Bevell and move Cable to the role of OC.

 

[hawkfan68]

This is going to deal with some observations from around the NFL.

Why is Bevell ok with Cable screwing up his life? Think about that for a minute. Cable has laid a crappy foundation that Bevell has built has an offense on, yet Bevell has not demanded that Cable is fired. Bevell's only option to continue coaching in the NFL is either an OC or a head coach. At this point, Bevell can't expect to get either job with how this offense has performed with Cable laying a shoddy foundation. Is Bevell so weak he can not call out Cable? If so he needs to go. Bevell after last year should have told Pete "It's me or him". Do the coaches not have Tell The Truth Monday? How can you sit there with the overall responsibility of the offense and not turn to Cable every week and say "What the hell are you doing Tom?"
"Why can your guys not learn the basic rules of football Tom?"
"Why can your guys not follow your blocking assignments, Tom?"
"Why do I have a basketball player as my left tackle Tom?"
"Why is my offense starting 1st and 20 Tom?"
"I'm left with two options, Tom. Either you're a bad teacher or these guys you wanted are too dumb. Both reflect poorly on you."

Yet Bevell stays. That is the most damning thing about Bevell he has let Tom Cable poop all over his future career in coaching. This is why Bevell must go. If he is too scared to stand up for himself he will be too scared to innovate on offense. Innovation is inherently scary.

Cable is the Assistant Head Coach and OL coach. Bevell is the just the offensive coordinator. Cable is higher in the Seahawk food chain based on title than Bevell, thus maybe the reason he isn't calling him out. JS is the Executive VP and GM, while Pete Carroll is the Exec VP of Football Operations and Head Coach. All these guys (Carroll, Schneider, and Cable) have multiple titles.

Pete needs to blow up the offensive coaching staff this winter. My only fear is they fire Bevell and move Cable to the role of OC.

Cable needs to be removed before Bevell does or his title as Asst HC needs to be taken away. He seems to have too much influence and his unit is the weakest on the team. It has been since he arrived and that hasn't changed while he's been here. Cable is the bigger problem than anything else. He's one of the primary reasons why this offense sputters.

 

[sdog1981]

This is going to deal with some observations from around the NFL.

Why is Bevell ok with Cable screwing up his life? Think about that for a minute. Cable has laid a crappy foundation that Bevell has built has an offense on, yet Bevell has not demanded that Cable is fired. Bevell's only option to continue coaching in the NFL is either an OC or a head coach. At this point, Bevell can't expect to get either job with how this offense has performed with Cable laying a shoddy foundation. Is Bevell so weak he can not call out Cable? If so he needs to go. Bevell after last year should have told Pete "It's me or him". Do the coaches not have Tell The Truth Monday? How can you sit there with the overall responsibility of the offense and not turn to Cable every week and say "What the hell are you doing Tom?"
"Why can your guys not learn the basic rules of football Tom?"
"Why can your guys not follow your blocking assignments, Tom?"
"Why do I have a basketball player as my left tackle Tom?"
"Why is my offense starting 1st and 20 Tom?"
"I'm left with two options, Tom. Either you're a bad teacher or these guys you wanted are too dumb. Both reflect poorly on you."

Yet Bevell stays. That is the most damning thing about Bevell he has let Tom Cable poop all over his future career in coaching. This is why Bevell must go. If he is too scared to stand up for himself he will be too scared to innovate on offense. Innovation is inherently scary.

Cable is the Assistant Head Coach and OL coach. Bevell is the just the offensive coordinator. Cable is higher in the Seahawk food chain based on title than Bevell, thus maybe the reason he isn't calling him out. JS is the Executive VP and GM, while Pete Carroll is the Exec VP of Football Operations and Head Coach. All these guys (Carroll, Schneider, and Cable) have multiple titles.

Pete needs to blow up the offensive coaching staff this winter. My only fear is they fire Bevell and move Cable to the role of OC.

Cable needs to be removed before Bevell does or his title as Asst HC needs to be taken away. He seems to have too much influence and his unit is the weakest on the team. It has been since he arrived and that hasn't changed while he's been here. Cable is the bigger problem than anything else. He's one of the primary reasons why this offense sputters.

Oh, don't get me wrong Cable is a specialist in failure. The dude was fired from every job he had from 1997-2011 in less than 3 years.

 

[SeaChat]

why in Gods name would you blame Bevell for this last loss to Arizona, the offense was great, the defense failed us in this one. Sheesh, every game ends with Bevell and now Kearse haters, Kearse helped the Seahawks big time in this last game, that pass he came down with in the end zone is a Kearse signature play.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

So maybe the real problem is Pete and John have failed with restocking the team with the same depth it had 2-3 years ago. That's certainly the case with the O-line.

Pete and John haven't necessarily failed with restocking the team on the offensive line. We addressed offensive line hugely this last draft. We drafted more offensive linemen than probably most on this board thought we would. The depth is there; it's just not quality depth. Why?

Cable got the guys he wanted--said so himself. He got the guys he wanted to shape into outstanding protection for Wilson. And yet they're performing like turnstiles. That, to me, is indicative of a failure on Cable's part more than anyone else on the team.

 

[sdog1981]

So maybe the real problem is Pete and John have failed with restocking the team with the same depth it had 2-3 years ago. That's certainly the case with the O-line.

Pete and John haven't necessarily failed with restocking the team on the offensive line. We addressed offensive line hugely this last draft. We drafted more offensive linemen than probably most on this board thought we would. The depth is there; it's just not quality depth. Why?

Cable got the guys he wanted--said so himself. He got the guys he wanted to shape into outstanding protection for Wilson. And yet they're performing like turnstiles. That, to me, is indicative of a failure on Cable's part more than anyone else on the team.

I'm with you on that idea. The team drafted a guard and tackle in Odhiambo and Ifedi. Then his master plan was I will turn the tackle into a guard and the guard into a tackle/bench player. That is just mind numbingly stupid.