How long before we ruin our frachise QB??

[Sgt. Largent]

Because of his terrible pass protection! In all his years oline coaching he has never produced better than #22 in pass protection that includes the highest paid oline in the league. And THAT is how you get your QB killed and ruined, not run blocking.

That and they felt collectively as a coaching staff we could win this way and it's been a gross miscalculation (that Cable is key in). His talent evaluation is pathetic and results speak for themselves.

I'll agree that Cable is not as good of a pass pro teacher as he is the zone blocking scheme. But Pete knew that when he hired him. He wanted a ZBS guru cause he wanted to pound the rock and beat his opponents into submission with a nasty run game. And that's what he got in Cable.

I'll also content that Russell is culpable when it comes to our hurries, pressure and sack totals. There's a downside to him running around and holding the ball too long............more sacks and bad pass pro stats.

 

[Seymour]

Because of his terrible pass protection! In all his years oline coaching he has never produced better than #22 in pass protection that includes the highest paid oline in the league. And THAT is how you get your QB killed and ruined, not run blocking.

That and they felt collectively as a coaching staff we could win this way and it's been a gross miscalculation (that Cable is key in). His talent evaluation is pathetic and results speak for themselves.

I'll agree that Cable is not as good of a pass pro teacher as he is the zone blocking scheme. But Pete knew that when he hired him. He wanted a ZBS guru cause he wanted to pound the rock and beat his opponents into submission with a nasty run game. And that's what he got in Cable.

I'll also content that Russell is culpable when it comes to our hurries, pressure and sack totals. There's a downside to him running around and holding the ball too long............more sacks and bad pass pro stats.

And that worked fine with the top paid line, Russell running the read option (yes his stats helped Cable keep his job), and Lynch all here. Now they try do do the same thing without Lynch, with 1/2 as good of a line (or worse), and all the WR talent and Graham just going to waste??

If you want to "win forever", you adapt, and flex to conditions, and play to your strength. We have failed at adapting, overspent on defense, and will not be winning forever because of that.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

and will not be winning forever because of that.

10+ wins five straight years, only has happened like 7 times in NFL history. Unless you consider "win forever" SB rings every year, in that case you need to lower your expectations, no one does that.

All you want is a good chance, and my brother...............we have a good chance yet again. Healthy Russell, nasty ass defense and we found our RB. I like those odds.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

+1

 

[Seymour]

and will not be winning forever because of that.

10+ wins five straight years, only has happened like 7 times in NFL history. Unless you consider "win forever" SB rings every year, in that case you need to lower your expectations, no one does that.

All you want is a good chance, and my brother...............we have a good chance yet again. Healthy Russell, nasty ass defense and we found our RB. I like those odds.

I hope you are right, I don't see it. Not with us being clowned with this oline. Any Rams like team can and likely will knock us off given the current situation. I thought we learned that last year? All those additional minutes will chew up the aging D by years end also..just like we saw last year.

 

[ivotuk]

Stupidity d thread

It happens. Good QBs get ruined over time by playing behind terrible O-lines for years and years. Again, I've posted this elsewhere, but look at what happened with Marc Bulger and David Carr.

Hell look at what Bradford has been doing with an Oline just slightly better than the Rams and better supporting pieces. I would not be surprised if Russ tries to force a trade next year if the issues aren't fixed. Even if he might not want to his wife is not going to be okay with him getting the tar beat out of him every week because the Hawks refuse to fix obvious issues. Issues that are obvious to literally everyone but Pete. He also struggles in rainy weather if he was playing somewhere like NO he would probably be setting the league on fire he balls out in domes,

I never even considered that possibility. I hate like hell even reading it, and I have no intelligent argument against why he won't or shouldn't either (if the conditions don't improve).

You mean the Sam Bradford that got hit and was out Sunday with a bad knee while his team got blown out by Pittsburgh? That Bradford? And that OLine?

Not sure what's good about it.

Russell forcing a trade next year? Where do people come up with this stuff?

And Drew Brees plays in the dome in New Orleans. He also gets blown out every time he plays a play off game outside. These arguments have no basis in reality!

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Russ forcing a trade? Yeah, and I have a 6 pack.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

and will not be winning forever because of that.

10+ wins five straight years, only has happened like 7 times in NFL history. Unless you consider "win forever" SB rings every year, in that case you need to lower your expectations, no one does that.

All you want is a good chance, and my brother...............we have a good chance yet again. Healthy Russell, nasty ass defense and we found our RB. I like those odds.

I hope you are right, I don't see it. Not with us being clowned with this oline. Any Rams like team can and likely will knock us off given the current situation. I thought we learned that last year? All those additional minutes will chew up the aging D by years end also..just like we saw last year.

All of this is certainly possible.

But we reloaded in FA and the draft, so our defensive depth is much better than it was last year. Should help keep guys fresh(er).

But back on topic, "ruining" Russell is an absurd notion. This is the NFL, EVERY QB has a chance to get ruined every single weekend. Eli got sacked like 57 times last night, it's the state of the NFL.

I'd rather have a mobile quick QB like Russell that knows how to slide and take a sack than an immobile QB that just gets hammered week after week shortening his career.

 

[hawk45]

But back on topic, "ruining" Russell is an absurd notion. This is the NFL, EVERY QB has a chance to get ruined every single weekend. Eli got sacked like 57 times last night, it's the state of the NFL.

I'd rather have a mobile quick QB like Russell that knows how to slide and take a sack than an immobile QB that just gets hammered week after week shortening his career.

The duration, consistency, and severity of the beatings matter. Throwing out one game in one season to dismiss the argument isn't very persuasive.

David Carr and Marc Bulger endured persistent drubbings and were not the same afterwards. In Bulger's case he performed well before it got to him.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

But back on topic, "ruining" Russell is an absurd notion. This is the NFL, EVERY QB has a chance to get ruined every single weekend. Eli got sacked like 57 times last night, it's the state of the NFL.

I'd rather have a mobile quick QB like Russell that knows how to slide and take a sack than an immobile QB that just gets hammered week after week shortening his career.

The duration, consistency, and severity of the beatings matter. Throwing out one game in one season to dismiss the argument isn't very persuasive.

David Carr and Marc Bulger endured persistent drubbings and were not the same afterwards. In Bulger's case he performed well before it got to him.

.........And RG3, and many others who didn't learn how to take a hit or run out of bounds.

Russell's the smartest "running" QB in the league, he knows how to take a hit..............and my guess is after last year he's even smarter about it.

 

[scutterhawk]

Nope, shouldn't have. 2 dropped TD passes in the first quarter = 6-0 instead of 14-0.
Totally different game.

This ^ Success breeds success.
I get that people are increasingly getting pissed about how shitty the protection is for Wilson, but "David Carred"?...Not by a pessimistic loooooong shot.
I also agree that the O-Line has been tasked to ZB at RW's expense, and it's dawning on Pete to once again, scrap the idea of going heavy with it...He waited until almost mid way through the 2015 season to implement the changes (too long IMHO), the results, as we all know, were Russell Wilson & Doug Baldwin kicking it in the ass.
Call it a hunch, but I'm thinking that we are going to see a changeup in protection, and a lot less of the Zone Blocking, where the O-Linemen are floundering around and falling down, and a bit more of what was working for RW.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Can't catch the ball for the guys, those 3 drops were damn good passes. ZERO excuse for not catching those.

 

[scutterhawk]

As far as the community loves him. Read the poll. 58% of those here believe he is ruined now or by the end of this season with continued piss poor oline play.

Um...yeah, about that poll....Fifty eight percent of the folks in HERE, that's what, 35 people?
the suggestion was about the million or so Seahawks fans, and not just the people here on the NET.

 

[Seymour]

As far as the community loves him. Read the poll. 58% of those here believe he is ruined now or by the end of this season with continued piss poor oline play.

Um...yeah, about that poll....Fifty eight percent of the folks in HERE, that's what, 35 people?
the suggestion was about the million or so Seahawks fans, and not just the people here on the NET.

Yes, that is what I said....58% people here. I was quite surprised myself and disagree, but I'm not going to try to spin that to everyone here is just weird either. It's 50 out of 86 voters not 35.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

would be interesting to see an honest poll on how many WANT him to fail. Sad really

 

[ivotuk]

As far as the community loves him. Read the poll. 58% of those here believe he is ruined now or by the end of this season with continued piss poor oline play.

Um...yeah, about that poll....Fifty eight percent of the folks in HERE, that's what, 35 people?
the suggestion was about the million or so Seahawks fans, and not just the people here on the NET.

Yes, that is what I said....58% people here. I was quite surprised myself and disagree, but I'm not going to try to spin that to everyone here is just weird either. It's 50 out of 86 voters not 35.

You can tell by the number of Doom and Gloom posts, that most of the current "roster" think this team is a disaster. And they're really vocal about it. If you say anything positive, they jump all over it with hyperbole, looking for one point they can attack while ignoring the thread title or 75% of the OPs post because it doesn't fit their storyline. It's crazy how many people are shredding this team, Russell Wilson, Pete Carroll, anybody and everybody, and all this after a WIN!

Me, I'm not worried. Russell Wilson is just fine. This team will be just fine. The Offensive Line will come along just fine. We will have Double Digit wins and an Elite Defense again. It's been this way for what, 6 years now?

 

[scutterhawk]

We were the #1 rushing team in the league for years, so I'm not down with the "Fire Cable" parrots.............we can certainly debate Pete and John's unrealistic faith in Cable's ability to turn basketball players and scrap heap free agents into a good line season after season.

The good news is I think the worm has turned on that philosophy, thus us going hard after Joeckel, Lang and drafting more polished O-lineman like Pocic.

Bottom line, Russell ain't a quitter. He's said many times that he only wants to play for one franchise, and that'd us. So if he goes anywhere? It's because he's old, gray and stinks and we've moved on.

We were only #1 in rushing 1 year 2014 (in Cable era). That season we were #8 in oline spending. This year and last...dead last. In 2013 the year we won the SB we were 4th in rushing and first in spending. See any correlation to support vs output yet?

Yes, O-line talent. Why is that Cable's fault?

All this tells me is when he's given something to work with, we have a top 5 rushing attack. When he's given garbage, he isn't as successful.

When it comes to the O-line, I blame Pete and John for their unsuccessful O-line philosophy and unrealistic expectations of Cable working miracles with garbage. Cable certainly has input into who we draft and acquire, but the buck stops at Pete and John.

Why are they absolved and everyone just wants Bevell and Cable's head?

Because of his terrible pass protection! In all his years oline coaching he has never produced better than #22 in pass protection that includes the highest paid oline in the league. And THAT is how you get your QB killed and ruined, not run blocking.

That and they felt collectively as a coaching staff we could win this way and it's been a gross miscalculation (that Cable is key in). His talent evaluation is pathetic and results speak for themselves.

It was the combination of Russell Wilson & Marshawn Lynch that made it all WORK, and work very well.
That's why Pete & Co stayed with it for so long...It's no longer a viable option, as RW can't do it all by himself. that magic is gone.....Will Cable be able to salvage the season with THIS O-Line?, maybe if they aren't trying to implement the ZB scheme?, just maybe they will revert to where they were at mid 2015, and all this negativity simmers back down?

 

[Seymour]

would be interesting to see an honest poll on how many WANT him to fail. Sad really

Attitude does effect perception of what people see. Just happened to me last night. I re-watched niners game and was surprised the offense did look better in Q1. Q2-3.5 was still a big irritating letdown, then the Russell drive, take over and just get it done happened and the players come through in the end.

I found myself with a completely different view than "we didn't kick their ass...therefore we suck" mindset I likely had in first viewing. I saw the oline as slightly better, rather than the same or worse I took away from view 1.

I try to watch for that, and still got caught even though I thought I didn't.

I'd be curious if others that watched this a 2nd time had similar experience?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It was the combination of Russell Wilson & Marshawn Lynch that made it all WORK, and work very well.
That's why Pete & Co stayed with it for so long...It's no longer a viable option, as RW can't do it all by himself. that magic is gone.....Will Cable be able to salvage the season with THIS O-Line?, maybe if they aren't trying to implement the ZB scheme?, just maybe they will revert to where they were at mid 2015, and all this negativity simmers back down?

I said two years ago that Pete should be more fluid and open to scheme changes, on both sides of the ball so we're not so predictable.

So I'm down with making scheme changes as your roster and personnel changes.

But again, why is this Cable's fault? He was hired to do a job, the job Pete continues to want him to do, which is coach up our terrible lines to zone block for Pete's run heavy ball control schemes.

You guys keep pointing the finger at the wrong people. You want changes, it starts and ends with Pete, not the dudes who do what he wants them to do.

 

[scutterhawk]

I would truly like to revisit this thread in a few weeks down the road, I think there will be some shifting of opinions, and hopefully a lot less negativity. :irishdrinkers: