How long before we ruin our frachise QB??

[Seymour]

I would truly like to revisit this thread in a few weeks down the road, I think there will be some shifting of opinions, and hopefully a lot less negativity. :irishdrinkers:

I allowed the option to change your vote so maybe people will update their vote if we improve??

 

[semiahmoo]

Russell has PTSD (Post traumatic Sack Disorder). Pete Carroll is to blame and once retired, I will always tie his legacy to a coach that ruined a franchise QB due to his failure at Offense line scouting coaching drafting and signing.

I tend to agree. Warned of it last season. Some in here were not happy w/me for saying it.

Fewer are complaining this season.

 

[ludakrishna]

Russell has PTSD (Post traumatic Sack Disorder). Pete Carroll is to blame and once retired, I will always tie his legacy to a coach that ruined a franchise QB due to his failure at Offense line scouting coaching drafting and signing.

I tend to agree. Warned of it last season. Some in here were not happy w/me for saying it.

Fewer are complaining this season.

Majority on this forum cannot handle negativity about Prophet Pete and Messiah Russell.

 

[ludakrishna]

This describes our situation perfectly

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I would truly like to revisit this thread in a few weeks down the road, I think there will be some shifting of opinions, and hopefully a lot less negativity. :irishdrinkers:

When I see OP threads like this, it makes me think that many Hawk fans don't watch any other football, they're myopic and not football fans, they're only Hawk fans.

It's the only thing that can explain why posters think things like ONLY Russell is in peril, like every other QB has amazing O-lines that give them 10 seconds of protection every play. Or the league's out to get us, or the national media hates us.................or any of the other topics that people think only apply to our team.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yet another solid post Largent :irishdrinkers:

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I think you got it a little wrong Ludak. Most of this forum seems to LOVE to be dramatic :lol:

 

[hawk45]

When I see OP threads like this, it makes me think that many Hawk fans don't watch any other football, they're myopic and not football fans, they're only Hawk fans.

It's the only thing that can explain why posters think things like ONLY Russell is in peril, like every other QB has amazing O-lines that give them 10 seconds of protection every play. Or the league's out to get us, or the national media hates us.................or any of the other topics that people think only apply to our team.

I don't see many believing only Russell is in peril. Or that other QBs get 10s of protection.

They'd just like to see our line rise a little bit relative to other lines. In fact the OP directly references relative OL play by saying "bottom 5."

Congrats for slaying the straw men I guess?

 

[sutz]

I would truly like to revisit this thread in a few weeks down the road, I think there will be some shifting of opinions, and hopefully a lot less negativity. :irishdrinkers:

When I see OP threads like this, it makes me think that many Hawk fans don't watch any other football, they're myopic and not football fans, they're only Hawk fans.

It's the only thing that can explain why posters think things like ONLY Russell is in peril, like every other QB has amazing O-lines that give them 10 seconds of protection every play. Or the league's out to get us, or the national media hates us.................or any of the other topics that people think only apply to our team.

I'll admit I don't watch a lot of other football beyond the Hawks. I don't have time nor really the interest to do so.

But I also don't claim to know how to fix every problem the team has or that someone might think it has.

I actually realize that every game we play is against a group of guys trying their best to win that game, too. The talent differential around the league is not that great. Regardless of team, everybody on the field is one of the top 1500 or so players in the world.

My homer, :179417: side wants to believe that we're the best. My :187734: side is constantly wondering how they could screw that up. Reality tells me that things are never as bad, or as good, as we think they are.

As for "ruining" Wilson, I'll give the team 6 or 8 more years before we accomplish that.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

When I see OP threads like this, it makes me think that many Hawk fans don't watch any other football, they're myopic and not football fans, they're only Hawk fans.

It's the only thing that can explain why posters think things like ONLY Russell is in peril, like every other QB has amazing O-lines that give them 10 seconds of protection every play. Or the league's out to get us, or the national media hates us.................or any of the other topics that people think only apply to our team.

I don't see many believing only Russell is in peril. Or that other QBs get 10s of protection.

They'd just like to see our line rise a little bit relative to other lines. In fact the OP directly references relative OL play by saying "bottom 5."

Congrats for slaying the straw men I guess?

You're very fond of this term, you should mix it up a little.

Here are the facts, with Russell we've always been towards the middle to bottom of the league when it comes to sacks given up..........even back when we spent a lot on our line.

Does our terrible line contribute to Russell getting sacked and hit? Sure, but so does Russell holding the ball too long and running around. In fact, I'd say it's even close to 50/50, or 60/40 as to who's at fault when Russell gets sacked. The dude just holds onto the ball too long looking for the wide open receiver or waiting for the play to break down. It's the #1 thing he gets criticized for with national media.

I think we should spend more on the line too, but to think it'll fix Russell from being "ruined" (whatever that means) is absurd. You want a QB that won't get ruined, go root for the Patriots, or another team with a QB that gets the ball out in less than two seconds.

Cause that ain't here.

 

[Seymour]

When I see OP threads like this, it makes me think that many Hawk fans don't watch any other football, they're myopic and not football fans, they're only Hawk fans.

It's the only thing that can explain why posters think things like ONLY Russell is in peril, like every other QB has amazing O-lines that give them 10 seconds of protection every play. Or the league's out to get us, or the national media hates us.................or any of the other topics that people think only apply to our team.

I don't see many believing only Russell is in peril. Or that other QBs get 10s of protection.

They'd just like to see our line rise a little bit relative to other lines. In fact the OP directly references relative OL play by saying "bottom 5."

Congrats for slaying the straw men I guess?

You're very fond of this term, you should mix it up a little.

Here are the facts, with Russell we've always been towards the middle to bottom of the league when it comes to sacks given up..........even back when we spent a lot on our line.

Does our terrible line contribute to Russell getting sacked and hit? Sure, but so does Russell holding the ball too long and running around. In fact, I'd say it's even close to 50/50, or 60/40 as to who's at fault when Russell gets sacked. The dude just holds onto the ball too long looking for the wide open receiver or waiting for the play to break down. It's the #1 thing he gets criticized for with national media.

I think we should spend more on the line too, but to think it'll fix Russell from being "ruined" (whatever that means) is absurd. You want a QB that won't get ruined, go root for the Patriots, or another team with a QB that gets the ball out in less than two seconds.

Cause that ain't here.

Boy you really like to skip the details and just jump on your high horse don't you? :roll:

This was right in first post....

....Lastly. By ruined I mean there no hope of him returning to very near his best years of play.

Then later in thread I posted this.

OK I am a bit surprised at the results honestly.

I just want to be sure everyone understands "ruined" mean he has ZERO chance to return to say 2013-2015 form once the problems are solved for him. Not just happy feet that every QB goes through.

 

[hawk45]

When I see OP threads like this, it makes me think that many Hawk fans don't watch any other football, they're myopic and not football fans, they're only Hawk fans.

It's the only thing that can explain why posters think things like ONLY Russell is in peril, like every other QB has amazing O-lines that give them 10 seconds of protection every play. Or the league's out to get us, or the national media hates us.................or any of the other topics that people think only apply to our team.

I don't see many believing only Russell is in peril. Or that other QBs get 10s of protection.

They'd just like to see our line rise a little bit relative to other lines. In fact the OP directly references relative OL play by saying "bottom 5."

Congrats for slaying the straw men I guess?

You're very fond of this term, you should mix it up a little.

Here are the facts, with Russell we've always been towards the middle to bottom of the league when it comes to sacks given up..........even back when we spent a lot on our line.

Does our terrible line contribute to Russell getting sacked and hit? Sure, but so does Russell holding the ball too long and running around. In fact, I'd say it's even close to 50/50, or 60/40 as to who's at fault when Russell gets sacked. The dude just holds onto the ball too long looking for the wide open receiver or waiting for the play to break down. It's the #1 thing he gets criticized for with national media.

I think we should spend more on the line too, but to think it'll fix Russell from being "ruined" (whatever that means) is absurd. You want a QB that won't get ruined, go root for the Patriots, or another team with a QB that gets the ball out in less than two seconds.

Cause that ain't here.

Your misrepresentation on 2 points of what posters are thinking was exaggeration/distortion of opposing viewpoint to make your own position seem stronger. Instead of typing that out I said "straw men." Seems pretty apt to me.

You leave out another criticism that is high on the list: that Russell hears footsteps when there are none and runs himself into sacks too early. These are NOT the occasions where he holds the ball to long and takes a sack. These are the occasions where he doesn't wait long enough. Everybody has their own definition of ruined, but I share PopeyeJones's oft-repeated view that this habit of Russell's keeps him from his best version of himself in the pocket. I feel that poor protection contributes to his lack of progress in this area, and that the longer it goes on the more difficult it is to change bad habits.

I can ignore your last paragraph because again it misrepresents the opposing viewpoint to make yours seem stronger.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

What quarterback WOULDN'T hear footsteps after the O Line he has had to deal with? Very few.
Unfortunately, there is probably a ticker in his head telling him that he's about to get killed if he doesn't get rid of the ball. There are times that he rushes a throw on the FEW times that they actually block for him.
But the fact that it's Russell Wilson makes it not ok I guess. He played a real bad game overall on Sunday. But what I love about him is that his short memory is next level. When the game was on the line, he took over.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

When I see OP threads like this, it makes me think that many Hawk fans don't watch any other football, they're myopic and not football fans, they're only Hawk fans.

It's the only thing that can explain why posters think things like ONLY Russell is in peril, like every other QB has amazing O-lines that give them 10 seconds of protection every play. Or the league's out to get us, or the national media hates us.................or any of the other topics that people think only apply to our team.

I don't see many believing only Russell is in peril. Or that other QBs get 10s of protection.

They'd just like to see our line rise a little bit relative to other lines. In fact the OP directly references relative OL play by saying "bottom 5."

Congrats for slaying the straw men I guess?

You're very fond of this term, you should mix it up a little.

Here are the facts, with Russell we've always been towards the middle to bottom of the league when it comes to sacks given up..........even back when we spent a lot on our line.

Does our terrible line contribute to Russell getting sacked and hit? Sure, but so does Russell holding the ball too long and running around. In fact, I'd say it's even close to 50/50, or 60/40 as to who's at fault when Russell gets sacked. The dude just holds onto the ball too long looking for the wide open receiver or waiting for the play to break down. It's the #1 thing he gets criticized for with national media.

I think we should spend more on the line too, but to think it'll fix Russell from being "ruined" (whatever that means) is absurd. You want a QB that won't get ruined, go root for the Patriots, or another team with a QB that gets the ball out in less than two seconds.

Cause that ain't here.

Your misrepresentation on 2 points of what posters are thinking was exaggeration/distortion of opposing viewpoint to make your own position seem stronger. Instead of typing that out I said "straw men." Seems pretty apt to me.

You leave out another criticism that is high on the list: that Russell hears footsteps when there are none and runs himself into sacks too early. These are NOT the occasions where he holds the ball to long and takes a sack. These are the occasions where he doesn't wait long enough. Everybody has their own definition of ruined, but I share PopeyeJones's oft-repeated view that this habit of Russell's keeps him from his best version of himself in the pocket. I feel that poor protection contributes to his lack of progress in this area, and that the longer it goes on the more difficult it is to change bad habits.

I can ignore your last paragraph because again it misrepresents the opposing viewpoint to make yours seem stronger.

Again, you're leaving out any culpability by Russell.

Not sure if you're on Twitter, but if you are follow Davis Hsu, he breaks down every game, almost play by play. He showed at least 3-4 times last week where Russell had plenty of time, and either didn't get the ball out to the open target, or held onto it to long and got sacked.

So yeah this line sucks, so do 75% of the lines in the league right now. But some of this is on Russell too.

So if he's getting ruined, he has to own some of it. Not that I think that, cause I think he mentally tough, is insanely competitive, and is the best "mobile" QB in the entire league at knowing when to put his body at risk of being "ruined."

 

[semiahmoo]

According to the poll it appears #'s don't lie.

Things ain't right.

 

[Popeyejones]

Nope, shouldn't have. 2 dropped TD passes in the first quarter = 6-0 instead of 14-0.
Totally different game.

Once you start counting things that didn't happen you have to count the easy dropped interceptions he threw too, though.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

True, but sitting at 14-0 changes the entire game.

 

[Seymour]

Now would be a good time to look at this poll again.

Any one of you 38 votes that say Wilson is "already ruined" want to change your vote? You can change it now. :2thumbs:

As a reminder, in post 1 ruined was defined as... "By ruined I mean there no hope of him returning to very near his best years of play."

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Nah, admitting they were wrong would hurt too much :irishdrinkers:

 

[Seymour]

Nah, admitting they were wrong would hurt too much :irishdrinkers:

Could be. All I know is I'll take 452 yards, 4TD, and a (career #23) 1:40 game winning drive over their vote any week. :2thumbs:

Wilson now has 4 more game winning drives in his career than Rodgers. Everyone in front of him has considerably more games in the NFL.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/gwd_active.htm