Is A Loss Tomorrow A Failure of a Season?

[hawksfansinceday1]

"Anything but a Super Bowl is proof that my opinions on how the team should be run were correct from the beginning."

- the malcontents

You know it's going to happen. Months and months and months of it, right up until training camp and beyond.

THAT'S why I most want the Seahawks to win. Not just to avoid losing, I can handle that. I just can't stand to hear a bunch of popcorn-chuckers who have never stepped foot on a football field on their life spending nine months condemning Pete Carroll's entire legacy and dismissing the long years of success as "meaningless" and "nothing".

Go Seahawks. Please. I beg you.

What an absolutely incredibly awesome post! :irishdrinkers:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Good question.

I do think losing today would signify a failed season for me. Having a #1 seed in our control going into week 16, then losing 4 of our last five games and losing in the first round of the playoffs I don't think could be viewed any other way.

Also in the big picture of "are we building another SB caliber roster," losing at the same point in the season as last year to a mediocre NFC East champ would not be a sign of improvement roster wise.

 

[justafan]

It should be a failure in the teams view . Every loss should be a painful experience . If it's not ; then a team is just coasting for a paycheck . IMO ...As far as the " retooling-rebuilding " narrative ; I don't even consider that as an excuse for any team . Every good team is constantly trying to improve their team every season and every way they can . The draft---free agency---trades . It never stops . Naming a certain season as a rebuild or whatever you want to call it is wrong ; because it happens every season .

In a way I agree with you. Teams routinely bring in 10 to 15 guys every year. You have to gell fast. But we havent replaced our core from the SB years though. Guys that are a key elements of the team. Besides Wilson I dont know if we have many players that are must keep leaders or special players that win you SBs. We do have some nice talent developing but I dont see players like Sherman,Thomas or Chancellor who have that dog in them. Those were historically good drafts and you cant expect those guys to come around often. But you need a core of special players. So in that sense I think we are still rebuilding.

When you win as much we have other teams overpay for your depth and role players. It will happen to the Niners and every other team that has success.

 

[Rat]

Looking at this season on its own, no, not really, although it's not exactly exceeding expectations either.

However, three consecutive years of Russ' prime without a playoff victory feels like a failure to me.

 

[Kinger95]

Gonna watch the game 1st.

If the running backs cost us the game with fumbles ect. that’s injury’s and can’t do much. If we keep running with minimal effectiveness similar to last year that’ll be most frustrating. If your gonna pay Russ 35 mill you need to use him the whole game not just when your down double digits. Philly has injury’s but if they come out and play good with replacement players and our staff can’t do the same that’s also another thing I’m gonna watch for.

 

[Seahwkgal]

"Anything but a Super Bowl is proof that my opinions on how the team should be run were correct from the beginning."

- the malcontents

You know it's going to happen. Months and months and months of it, right up until training camp and beyond.

THAT'S why I most want the Seahawks to win. Not just to avoid losing, I can handle that. I just can't stand to hear a bunch of popcorn-chuckers who have never stepped foot on a football field on their life spending nine months condemning Pete Carroll's entire legacy and dismissing the long years of success as "meaningless" and "nothing".

Go Seahawks. Please. I beg you.

What an absolutely incredibly awesome post! :irishdrinkers:

Co-sign.
:2thumbs: :2thumbs:

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Gonna watch the game 1st.

If the running backs cost us the game with fumbles ect. that’s injury’s and can’t do much. If we keep running with minimal effectiveness similar to last year that’ll be most frustrating. If your gonna pay Russ 35 mill you need to use him the whole game not just when your down double digits. Philly has injury’s but if they come out and play good with replacement players and our staff can’t do the same that’s also another thing I’m gonna watch for.

I'm with you. If there's especially a loss, I'm gonna focus on how that loss happened: Was Russ allowed to run/do qb sneaks when this made sense? Was there attention to clock management? If the Eagles D (which is great against the run) shuts down our run, do we go to the quick passing game or do more of what hasn't worked?

I will say this: If we lose to a good but lesser QB than Wilson, if we lose to a bunch of guys who were on PS a few weeks ago, if we lose because we tried to get cute with personnel groupings when there was no time, then yes despite our 11-5 record, it's time for not just JS but Jodi herself to inform Pete that he's on a put-up-or-shut-up contract, get him an analytics guy in his ear like Harbaugh, and make him change his ways or leave. And that it's time for them all to stop treating Wilson like a museum ornament just because we paid a lot of money. That kick in the ass should happen anyway, but it will be escalated with a L.

 

[Mad Dog]

Always a failure unless you win the last game...the goal is always to win the sb.

This might be the dumbest post I have seen this year.

You probably had a lot of "participation" ribbons in your youth...that's okay everyone wins!

No but were you beaten for not scoring 100% on every test? It is possible to be a success without being the best.

I know a lot of people on the internet seemingly only see things as binary. I'm not sure where that mind set comes from. But in the real world I live in I meet plenty of "successful" people that aren't the "best in the world". They aren't just living on "participation ribbons". Success is a continuum not a discrete binary option.

So yes a SB win would be wildly successful. A playoff appearance is reasonably successful. And a playoff win is a solid success. A losing record is a failure. A winless season is an abominable failure. A winning record without a playoff appearance is the participation ribbon.

 

[Mad Dog]

It should be a failure in the teams view . Every loss should be a painful experience . If it's not ; then a team is just coasting for a paycheck . IMO ...As far as the " retooling-rebuilding " narrative ; I don't even consider that as an excuse for any team . Every good team is constantly trying to improve their team every season and every way they can . The draft---free agency---trades . It never stops . Naming a certain season as a rebuild or whatever you want to call it is wrong ; because it happens every season .

And yet most teams do go cyclically through good years and bad. Only a handful of teams seem to maintain winning despite roster churn. And a handful of teams maintain losing ways despite this same changeover.

Be thankful we are one of the few teams that maintains success over time despite roster change.

As long as you have a QB and a coach, you can maintain that success. But no mistake about it, we are re-loading on defense especially. And we are pretty much just a pass rush away from being a force to reckon with.

 

[Rat]

Some of you have strange definitions of "rebuilding". No way was this a rebuild year. We were coming off a playoff season, and in the offseason we gave our two vet leaders record contracts. We have the league's oldest coach and the best QB in franchise history smack dab in his prime. The consensus was that this was a team that, at worst, would be fighting for a playoff spot.

None of that signals a rebuilding year.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Some of you have strange definitions of "rebuilding". No way was this a rebuild year. We were coming off a playoff season, and in the offseason we gave our two vet leaders record contracts. We have the league's oldest coach and the best QB in franchise history smack dab in his prime. The consensus was that this was a team that, at worst, would be fighting for a playoff spot.

None of that signals a rebuilding year.

Huh?

Having the best QB in franchise history seems an odd criteria for a rebuilding year. If that's a descriptor, then we never have rebuilding years.

Nor does 2018 having been a playoff season really qualify for me, given that we weren't supposed to make it then, either. And the contracts and oldest coach are just straight-up non sequiturs.

No, having lost Earl, Clark, and Baldwin over the offseason moved us most certainly into rebuilding territory, to say nothing of the rest of the defensive line being a giant flashing question mark, with far too many green players. Our WR/TE corps were an unknown quantity. Shaquill Griffin had just had a down year, and again, free safety was a serious concern. Depth all across the board has been awful this year. Throw the K position in there just for good measure, and OLB given Kendrick's legal problems and Shaquem Griffin's redshirting.

After this year's moves and another draft, I think 2020 will come closer to qualifying as a contention year. But the fact that Russell Wilson allows to be competitive in even our worst years, should not deceive us into thinking that we EVER had a shot at a Super Bowl after those era-ending Lions and Cardinals games in 2017. We were going to need a while.

 

[bmorepunk]

I'm with Montana on this one.

 

[chris98251]

Dan Marino
Dan Pastorini
Archie Manning
Phillip Rivers
Fran Tarkenton
Jim Kelly
Warren Moon
Dan Fouts


Just a few guys that had the best years of their career wasted and never won a Super Bowl by some of your standards, you guys need to get over your entitlement bullshit, we are in the playoffs, health and match ups are the key here. You should feel fortunate that you have a guy like him on your team and he makes us competitive, so many fans only wish they had what we have. A chance to stand proud, have Super Bowl opportunities, in the playoffs year in and year out.

Spoiled and pathetic is what we have become, I remember many bitching about the 49ers, Cowboys,Patriots and the Steelers, and others for flaunting Rings and Trophies, this fan base has become much of the same just not as much hardware to brag about, how you like them apples ? We are worse then legacy teams in bravado and expectations but have less in our cabinet to show for it.

 

[Rat]

Some of you have strange definitions of "rebuilding". No way was this a rebuild year. We were coming off a playoff season, and in the offseason we gave our two vet leaders record contracts. We have the league's oldest coach and the best QB in franchise history smack dab in his prime. The consensus was that this was a team that, at worst, would be fighting for a playoff spot.

None of that signals a rebuilding year.

Huh?

Having the best QB in franchise history seems an odd criteria for a rebuilding year. If that's a descriptor, then we never have rebuilding years.

Nor does 2018 having been a playoff season really qualify for me, given that we weren't supposed to make it then, either. And the contracts and oldest coach are just straight-up non sequiturs.

No, having lost Earl, Clark, and Baldwin over the offseason moved us most certainly into rebuilding territory, to say nothing of the rest of the defensive line being a giant flashing question mark, with far too many green players. Our WR/TE corps were an unknown quantity. Shaquill Griffin had just had a down year, and again, free safety was a serious concern. Depth all across the board has been awful this year. Throw the K position in there just for good measure, and OLB given Kendrick's legal problems and Shaquem Griffin's redshirting.

After this year's moves and another draft, I think 2020 will come closer to qualifying as a contention year. But the fact that Russell Wilson allows to be competitive in even our worst years, should not deceive us into thinking that we EVER had a shot at a Super Bowl after those era-ending Lions and Cardinals games in 2017. We were going to need a while.

I don't think it's odd criteria when that QB is in his 30s and getting a record-breaking contract. Do you give him that and then say you don't think you have a chance at winning a championship this year? These are his prime years, and we don't know how much time Carroll has left. Seems unlikely that they'd wouldn't give it what they've got.

Also, if you're saying we won't be contending for several years, why the Wags deal? That was a lot of money. How elite would he be expected to play in those few years. If we're "rebuilding" wouldn't it make more sense to either trade him for younger assets or use that money on younger players? I wouldn't use Baldwin as an example either, since injuries basically forced him out. I think there's a good chance he's still here otherwise. And what about the Clowney trade? We moved a third round pick, something this front office has shown to believe is very valuable, for a vet player on the last year of his contract, looking for big money.

We had question marks, but so did everybody. Even still, the average projection for us, especially on here was the double-digit win periphery. We were considered a division contender, and if you can get into the playoffs, there's reason to believe you can advance, especially in a conference without any teams that REALLY stand out.

That's not rebuilding to me, but I guess other people define that term differently.

 

[Cyrus12]

Ask this question to a saints fan right now...

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Some of you have strange definitions of "rebuilding". No way was this a rebuild year. We were coming off a playoff season, and in the offseason we gave our two vet leaders record contracts. We have the league's oldest coach and the best QB in franchise history smack dab in his prime. The consensus was that this was a team that, at worst, would be fighting for a playoff spot.

None of that signals a rebuilding year.

Huh?

Having the best QB in franchise history seems an odd criteria for a rebuilding year. If that's a descriptor, then we never have rebuilding years.

Nor does 2018 having been a playoff season really qualify for me, given that we weren't supposed to make it then, either. And the contracts and oldest coach are just straight-up non sequiturs.

No, having lost Earl, Clark, and Baldwin over the offseason moved us most certainly into rebuilding territory, to say nothing of the rest of the defensive line being a giant flashing question mark, with far too many green players. Our WR/TE corps were an unknown quantity. Shaquill Griffin had just had a down year, and again, free safety was a serious concern. Depth all across the board has been awful this year. Throw the K position in there just for good measure, and OLB given Kendrick's legal problems and Shaquem Griffin's redshirting.

After this year's moves and another draft, I think 2020 will come closer to qualifying as a contention year. But the fact that Russell Wilson allows to be competitive in even our worst years, should not deceive us into thinking that we EVER had a shot at a Super Bowl after those era-ending Lions and Cardinals games in 2017. We were going to need a while.

I don't think it's odd criteria when that QB is in his 30s and getting a record-breaking contract. Do you give him that and then say you don't think you have a chance at winning a championship this year? These are his prime years, and we don't know how much time Carroll has left. Seems unlikely that they'd wouldn't give it what they've got.

Also, if you're saying we won't be contending for several years, why the Wags deal? That was a lot of money. How elite would he be expected to play in those few years. If we're "rebuilding" wouldn't it make more sense to either trade him for younger assets or use that money on younger players? I wouldn't use Baldwin as an example either, since injuries basically forced him out. I think there's a good chance he's still here otherwise. And what about the Clowney trade? We moved a third round pick, something this front office has shown to believe is very valuable, for a vet player on the last year of his contract, looking for big money.

We had question marks, but so did everybody. Even still, the average projection for us, especially on here was the double-digit win periphery. We were considered a division contender, and if you can get into the playoffs, there's reason to believe you can advance, especially in a conference without any teams that REALLY stand out.

That's not rebuilding to me, but I guess other people define that term differently.

Seattle is handing out these mega-deals because they have no choice in the current market, not necessarily because they have enough confidence in their team to consider it a contention year. If you don't give that money to Wilson and Wagner, they're out. Plain and simple.

And what does it matter the exact nature of Baldwin's departure? Fact is, he was out, and that cast our WR corps into doubt. Metcalf was exciting, Lockett was Lockett, and Dissly was real encouraging, but after that, the position dropped off like the white cliffs of Dover. The other contending teams out there are marked by being much, much deeper at those spots than we are.

We started out with no defensive line besides Clowney - that alone ended most people's consideration of us as a contender, and validly so. You generally go nowhere without those. Plus a huge, scheme-altering gap at free safety, the OLB position up in the air, and Jason Myers, and yeah, you had enough people thinking that we were a divisional-round type, maybe.

I will say that our perception of the team fluctuated wildly with the season. Once we saw the 49ers were legitimate, our prospects dropped. Adding Diggs and finding a role for Shaquem shored them up. Then everyone started getting injured again. Lynch was a fun last-minute infusion. Will it work? I doubt it.

But in general, we're talking about perceptions at the beginning of the year. The situation was better than 2018, but the defensive line issue alone was enough to cast a shadow on the year.

 

[HawkinNY]

Yes def a failure. ESP the second half of the season this team played awful. With the missed calls and Just bad ticky tac calls don’t fat this postseason I just hope Seattle loses by themselves and not let the refs screw them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MesquiteHawk]

Always a failure unless you win the last game...the goal is always to win the sb.

This might be the dumbest post I have seen this year.

You probably had a lot of "participation" ribbons in your youth...that's okay everyone wins!

What an idiotic comment. There are 31 failure teams in the nfl each year? Only the CEO of a company is a success. Only the President is a political success. All but the gold medal winner is an Olympic failure.

Crappy way to look at life, but you go on enjoying your string of failures.

 

[Cyrus12]

Always a failure unless you win the last game...the goal is always to win the sb.

This might be the dumbest post I have seen this year.

You probably had a lot of "participation" ribbons in your youth...that's okay everyone wins!

What an idiotic comment. There are 31 failure teams in the nfl each year? Only the CEO of a company is a success. Only the President is a political success. All but the gold medal winner is an Olympic failure.

Crappy way to look at life, but you go on enjoying your string of failures.

Yawn...but keep trying...you might get another ribbon!

 

[MesquiteHawk]

This might be the dumbest post I have seen this year.

You probably had a lot of "participation" ribbons in your youth...that's okay everyone wins!

What an idiotic comment. There are 31 failure teams in the nfl each year? Only the CEO of a company is a success. Only the President is a political success. All but the gold medal winner is an Olympic failure.

Crappy way to look at life, but you go on enjoying your string of failures.

Yawn...but keep trying...you might get another ribbon!

Ignore