Kam holding out for more money

[andyh64000]

If they did what Kam wants they could actually free up a small amount of cap space this year but it shoves a lot of dead money and a really big cap hit (assuming he also gets his Salary) into 2017.

"they can eventually replace Kam or trade for a excellent punt returner."

Kam is unique...and trade him for a Punt Returner? Seriously?

 

[mikeak]

If they did what Kam wants they could actually free up a small amount of cap space this year but it shoves a lot of dead money and a really big cap hit (assuming he also gets his Salary) into 2017.

No offense but how it moves the money is really irrelevant. The reason is you roll over unused cap space

Well even before that you can elect to pay the signing bonus in this cap year and not roll it over but besides that if you save $3million this year that money rolls to next year

Assuming you do the opposite of the average american (who would spend the extra money) and let it roll over then you have the same $3m next year so the increase in cap hit is 100% offset by the rollover.

 

[SnoCoHawk]

Bear in mind that I'm not up on the fine points of NFL contracts...

So let's say the FO shifts a significant portion of Kam's 2016-2017 money into this year which seems to be what he wants (based on what the insiders are saying). Wouldn't he just hold out next year, too, because his pay has been depleted by moving the money forward? So then he wants more of his 2017 money moved up, and then the next year it's time for a full contract renegotiation. It would just end up costing the team way more in the long run, right?

 

[kidhawk]

Bear in mind that I'm not up on the fine points of NFL contracts...

So let's say the FO shifts a significant portion of Kam's 2016-2017 money into this year which seems to be what he wants (based on what the insiders are saying). Wouldn't he just hold out next year, too, because his pay has been depleted by moving the money forward? So then he wants more of his 2017 money moved up, and then the next year it's time for a full contract renegotiation. It would just end up costing the team way more in the long run, right?

If what you are saying is what he wants, then yes. I've also heard speculation that he wants next year's money guaranteed. This would only alter the cap if we guarantee the money and he can't play. If we were to guarantee his salary next year and he gets hurt, we would end up taking a hit to the cap and also have to replace him. It doesn't hurt us if he stays healthy and plays next year though.

Of course it's all just speculation until something gets settled and one or both sides can speak on the issue. I don't think we should give him more money, but guaranteeing some or all of next y ear isn't something I have a problem with. I feel that is an acceptable risk. of course that may not be what he wants. It sucks either way. He absolutely needs to be here for the season.

 

[hawknation2015]

This was Chancellor's agent announcing his extension in 2013 . . . #trueblessing. He should be ashamed of himself for working out this large extension, calling it a #trueblessing," accepting his 3%, and now trying to renege on the deal at a time when his team needs him out there to provide stability. #trulypathetic.

 

[seahawk 17]

I love Kam and think he should be paid, however, once Seattle gives in player's will be lining up at Schneider's door wanting money now or else.

I would also like to know the why behind his hold out. Everything was fine and then a week before camp starts, he's unhappy. Is he injured? Does he know his body is about to break down?

I also wonder if Jeremy Lane's injury plays into this at all. Torn knee and broken arm in one play and he doesn't know when he will be back. I can imagine a football player may always be thinking that a play may be their last.

 

[andyh64000]

I love Kam and think he should be paid, however, once Seattle gives in player's will be lining up at Schneider's door wanting money now or else.

I would also like to know the why behind his hold out. Everything was fine and then a week before camp starts, he's unhappy. Is he injured? Does he know his body is about to break down?

I also wonder if Jeremy Lane's injury plays into this at all. Torn knee and broken arm in one play and he doesn't know when he will be back. I can imagine a football player may always be thinking that a play may be their last.

I think it is a combo of things. I think he needs cash now for some reason and with his injuries last year he knows there is a possibility that 2015 could be his last paycheck and it isn't enough money to set him up for the life he wants. I am guessing the latter is the most important but he would like some cash now as well.

 

[scutterhawk]

What the hell good is contractual agreements, if nobody wants to adhere to them?
Your word is your bond, and a contract with your signature on it is also a bond.

Players see their teammates and others around the league get cut with 1, 2, 3 years remaining on their contracts all the time. Players see their teammates and others around the league asked to "restructure" (A.K.A. take less or you will be cut) their contracts all the time.

IMO, it's the teams that have set the precedent that contracts don't mean much and are subject to change pretty much at will.

Even though your statement is true, both Bennett and Kam are guaranteed their base salary for this season, so there is really no reason to hold out right now. They signed the deal and haven't even gotten through the guaranteed portions of their contracts before asking for more money.

It's one thing to get to the point where you could be cut and ask for some more guarantees, but when you are playing under a year that is already guaranteed, then you have very little (to no) leverage for more money.

Well, scutterhawk's comment seemed pretty general and my response to his comment was also just in general.

I just don't get why people expect players to honor contracts when teams don't.

So, you are contending that John Schneider is exactly the same kind of cutthroat GM as the rest around the League?
Sorry, but that's just not true, and the players damned well know better than that.
Kam is in the top ten of the highest paid players in the Seahawks organization, that coincidentally are eating the lions share of the cap and with what's left over in the cap? has to be distributed amongst the rest of the approximately 48 or so players in line behind him.
It's not as though JS is paying him or Bennett insult money.

 

[hawknation2015]

Though he’s choosing to stay away, Kam Chancellor is apparently still involved in the inner, daily workings of Seahawks practices during training camp.

His fill-in starter at strong safety during his week-old holdout, DeShawn Shead, says Chancellor has been reviewing films of the team’s practices and giving tips to him on how to play the position in the center of Seattle’s top-ranked defense.

“Oh, yeah, I get texts. He still watches all the film. He’s still tuned in to everything,” Shead said following today’s light, seventh camp practice here at the Virginia Mason Athletic Center. “He will tell me ‘Shead, watch out for this. When you see this play you can play it faster.’ If I made a mistake on something he will tell me, let me know.

“So he is still very active.”

Read more here: http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nf ... rylink=cpy

 

[hawknation2015]

As for Kam Chancellor, there’s nothing new there.

“I don’t know that we’re any closer,” Carroll said. “But I know that we are all working, working to stay connected. I know that he is staying connected to everything that we are doing. He is the ultimate competitor so he is not going to get very far away from us but there is still stuff to be talked out.”

Asked if he has talked to Chancellor recently he said “just messaging. It seems like it was three weeks ago but it was 4-5 days ago.”

Asked if he was surprised the holdout has lasted as long as it has, Carroll said no: “No, because he is very strong-minded. He has wanted to make a very clear statement, which he is doing.”

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seah ... amp-day-8/

 

[Narniaman]

Granted that Chancellor is about the best safety that ever was. . . but he doesn't help the Seahawks much at all if he's sitting at home watching his big screen TV instead of playing, even if he is texting advice to the rookies every so often. The fact is if he isn't playing, he's not a great deal of value to the Seahawks. . .even if they aren't paying him while he's away.

And suppose the Seahawks to pony up more money for him. . . if he's demanding more money in just the second season of his new contract. . . what would keep him from demanding even more money next year??

If we could get two first round picks for him from, say the Titans or Tampa. . .wouldn't that be more value than for a disgruntled player who doesn't seem all that interested in continuing to play for the Seahawks??

Send him to Tennessee or Tampa or Jacksonville and let them redo his contract. That would clear up $5.6 million from the cap. I think it's quite possible Schnider could pick and Pete could coach up another 5th round draft pick into the best safety that ever was. . . . . . and in addition two 1st round draft choices could bring us two more players in the mold of Russell Okung, Earl Thomas, James Carpenter, and Bruce Irvin -- with rookie contracts.

 

[hawknation2015]

Granted that Chancellor is about the best safety that ever was. . . but he doesn't help the Seahawks much at all if he's sitting at home watching his big screen TV instead of playing, even if he is texting advice to the rookies every so often. The fact is if he isn't playing, he's not a great deal of value to the Seahawks. . .even if they aren't paying him while he's away.

And suppose the Seahawks to pony up more money for him. . . if he's demanding more money in just the second season of his new contract. . . what would keep him from demanding even more money next year??

If we could get two first round picks for him from, say the Titans or Tampa. . .wouldn't that be more value than for a disgruntled player who doesn't seem all that interested in continuing to play for the Seahawks??

Send him to Tennessee or Tampa or Jacksonville and let them redo his contract. That would clear up $5.6 million from the cap. I think it's quite possible Schnider could pick and Pete could coach up another 5th round draft pick into the best safety that ever was. . . . . . and in addition two 1st round draft choices could bring us two more players in the mold of Russell Okung, Earl Thomas, James Carpenter, and Bruce Irvin -- with rookie contracts.

We're trying to win another Super Bowl this year, and Chancellor is a big part of that. Hopefully, they get this contract situation figured out soon. I have no doubt Chancellor wants to be a Seahawk and sitting out has to be killing him right now.

 

[c_hawkbob]

I have a hard time getting myself worked up about Kam raising his hand out of turn for a contract adjustment. I just can't see it lasting into the regular season.

 

[blkhwk]

Kam is great, but the SS position may be the easiest to replace in the secondary, maybe in the entire defense.

The Bears let an All-Pro safety, Todd Bell, sit out the entire 1985 season. His backup, Dave Duerson became an all pro that year. Bell never started again for the Bears and was eventually traded, and finished his career as a LB.

The Seahawks played most of a playoff year with Paul Moyer playing for the injured, all world, Ken Easley.

The Seahawks (again) replaced Ken Hamlin with a backup during the '05 SB run

Just some food for thought.....

 

[hawknation2015]

Kam is great, but the SS position may be the easiest to replace in the secondary, maybe in the entire defense.

The Bears let an All-Pro safety, Todd Bell, sit out the entire 1985 season. His backup, Dave Duerson became an all pro that year. Bell never started again for the Bears and was eventually traded, and finished his career as a LB.

The Seahawks played most of a playoff year with Paul Moyer playing for the injured, all world, Ken Easley.

The Seahawks (again) replaced Ken Hamlin with a backup during the '05 SB run

Just some food for thought.....

The difference is we don't have a Dave Duerson on our roster right now. Our backup SS is really a FS/NCB. The idea of Chancellor missing this season is unthinkable right now. He's very important to this team, and his absence is hurting us.

 

[c_hawkbob]

Kam is great, but the SS position may be the easiest to replace in the secondary, maybe in the entire defense.

The Bears let an All-Pro safety, Todd Bell, sit out the entire 1985 season. His backup, Dave Duerson became an all pro that year. Bell never started again for the Bears and was eventually traded, and finished his career as a LB.

The Seahawks played most of a playoff year with Paul Moyer playing for the injured, all world, Ken Easley.

The Seahawks (again) replaced Ken Hamlin with a backup during the '05 SB run

Just some food for thought.....

I don't care how easy SS's are to replace (wait; they are?!), Kam is not easily replaced! Look how long it took us to replace Kenny Easley.

 

[blkhwk]

Nobody knew who Dave Duerson was until that season. He was a special team guy up to that point.

The Rams didn't know what they had in Kurt Warner prior to him getting his shot due to injury, or for that matter, the Pats didn't know what they had in Brady prior to him getting his shot.

I'm not saying we have the next anything playing SS in Kam's place, just saying it happens. If the roster is a deep as everyone (coaches, media etc) is saying, the team will be fine. Agreed it will be better with Kam than without, but they will be fine.

 

[rideaducati]

Maybe Kam tweaked his hip and doesn't think he'll make it through the season without surgery or that he'll need the surgery at the end of the season and never make it back to his top level of play.

I hope he doesn't pull a Harvin and come back only to opt to have hip surgery during the season.

 

[ringless]

Question. Is it confirmed that the Seahawks are or are not fining him 30k for each missed workout?

What about roster bonuses?

In essence has he at this point almost lost 300k?

 

[blkhwk]

Kam is great, but the SS position may be the easiest to replace in the secondary, maybe in the entire defense.

The Bears let an All-Pro safety, Todd Bell, sit out the entire 1985 season. His backup, Dave Duerson became an all pro that year. Bell never started again for the Bears and was eventually traded, and finished his career as a LB.

The Seahawks played most of a playoff year with Paul Moyer playing for the injured, all world, Ken Easley.

The Seahawks (again) replaced Ken Hamlin with a backup during the '05 SB run

Just some food for thought.....

I don't care how easy SS's are to replace (wait; they are?!), Kam is not easily replaced! Look how long it took us to replace Kenny Easley.

Well, we still haven't replaced Ken Easley. But have they really made the SS position a big priority? Don't recall one being drafted since the Boulware reach in 2004. Between Boulware and Kam the Seahawks drafted a total of 0 safeties.

Don't remember the last time hearing someone say we would have been better if only for that damn strong safety. (Maybe SB XL)