Offensive Line

[Scottemojo]

Sweezy catches a lot of hell around here, I love both his potential and the way he is currently playing. He is going to be a huge part of what we do.
I know the line was a weakness last year, I have a hard time assessing how good or bad it was with McQ playing left tackle half the year. To my eye, the center position was a hot mess, I don't think Unger was healthy at all, and he got his ass kicked by Knighton in the SB. I don't see him ever being a plus player against good 3-4 NT types. I haven't herd he had surgery or anything, but he looked like he played the season with one arm.
Breno had a good year, I have to wonder if medical was why they let him go, he missed time for that knee and maybe the medical long term is worse than we know. I get the feeling his place also may have been one of the areas where cap space had to be made. I look for a 2nd year player like Bowie to get the gig.

McQ is the one I wanted gone, but he is a Cable guy and so he is still here. Of all our guys besides the hurt Unger, he was the one most physically outmatched all year. Even setting aside his failed LT stint, he was pretty bad at guard.

Carpenter I just have no idea. I suspect he isn't our brightest lineman, and he made so many glaring mistakes, losing his job in a playoff game no less was a big deal. He played well after that, and was pretty good in the Bowl. I don't know if it's motivational, physical, or mental, but he is easily the most inconsistent player on that line.

Our line suffered from some awful technique issues. Late in the year, holding was a chronic issue, with our guys getting called for anchoring their hands on guys shoulders a number of times. That seems like a coachable issue, but it just didn't stop. I don't know if the amount of play action we run has anything to do with it, but even in the Bowl those bad fundamentals killed a couple of big plays.

 

[lsheldon]

I think the Schilling acquisition is intriguing. He played Offensive tackle in college and didn't move to guard until he entered the NFL. I understand he was recruited by Carroll at USC but chose to go to Michigan. It was also reported that he was a target for Seattle in the draft but that San Diego took him just prior to our pick. Carroll obviously likes the kid, hopefully he will work out and compete for a starting position. Nothing wrong with some competition and depth on the offensive line.

 

[jammerhawk]

Carp has sadly not been very healthy here and this may be the first season since the year he was drafted that he has a strong likelihood of having a preseason where he can focus upon conditioning and improvement. Sadly he has consistently appeared to be out of shape since he tore up his knee and his focus seems to be missing that special something that shows he wants to be the very best he can be.

The depth the team is acquiring at OG speaks volumes about the weakness of his tenure in Seattle. He simply hasn't yet turned out to be the player that the team thought he'd be when he was drafted. If he shows up for OTAs out of shape like he did last season he may have signalled the end of his tenure here. If he shows up lean and mean and ready to fight for his job (something we sadly haven't seen from him) then he may make a case for being renewed and being paid a reasonable 2nd contract. Somehow though I don't think he may be around after this season and his cap $ could easily be re-assigned to a more productive use.

At present I'm inclined to believe he's more talented than either Bowie or Bailey and I really don't know just yet what the team has in Schilling or VanRoten, but if Carp isn't willing to compete Pete will let him move along for someone who is willing to fight for his position. It appears the FO is setting things up for a battle in camp. Even then it is also possible that Lem Jeanpierre will take one of OG jobs. He played well last year whenever he played and is very smart about what he sees from various defenses in front of him.

Perhaps Carp may be better playing on a team that doesn't expect more than drive blocking from him and I wonder if he's suited athletically to playing in zone blocking scheme.

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

Sweezy catches a lot of hell around here, I love both his potential and the way he is currently playing. He is going to be a huge part of what we do.
I know the line was a weakness last year, I have a hard time assessing how good or bad it was with McQ playing left tackle half the year. To my eye, the center position was a hot mess, I don't think Unger was healthy at all, and he got his ass kicked by Knighton in the SB. I don't see him ever being a plus player against good 3-4 NT types. I haven't herd he had surgery or anything, but he looked like he played the season with one arm.
Breno had a good year, I have to wonder if medical was why they let him go, he missed time for that knee and maybe the medical long term is worse than we know. I get the feeling his place also may have been one of the areas where cap space had to be made. I look for a 2nd year player like Bowie to get the gig.

McQ is the one I wanted gone, but he is a Cable guy and so he is still here. Of all our guys besides the hurt Unger, he was the one most physically outmatched all year. Even setting aside his failed LT stint, he was pretty bad at guard.

Carpenter I just have no idea. I suspect he isn't our brightest lineman, and he made so many glaring mistakes, losing his job in a playoff game no less was a big deal. He played well after that, and was pretty good in the Bowl. I don't know if it's motivational, physical, or mental, but he is easily the most inconsistent player on that line.

Our line suffered from some awful technique issues. Late in the year, holding was a chronic issue, with our guys getting called for anchoring their hands on guys shoulders a number of times. That seems like a coachable issue, but it just didn't stop. I don't know if the amount of play action we run has anything to do with it, but even in the Bowl those bad fundamentals killed a couple of big plays.

Excellent post.

Question, though. How many NFL Centers are sufficient enough by themselves against those good 3-4 NT types you mention to not get blown off the line by a bigger, stronger man? I'm thinking not many. So, it's more in the scheme, right? Against that NT, it's gotta be a tandem of the Center and one of the Guards to protect the A gap / knowing blocking assignments. Perhaps an Unger at full health and gaining years of experience will result in the savvy type play from guys that are significantly outweighed (or outmatched in lower body strength) by those monster NT's like Knighton. Need ever-increasing cohesive line effort to cut Pot Roasts into bite size skewers.

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

Perhaps Carp may be better playing on a team that doesn't expect more than drive blocking from him and I wonder if he's suited athletically to playing in zone blocking scheme.

Wasn't it Cable that identified Carpenter (and lobbied hard to draft him) to fit specifically into this scheme? If so, seems like he would have either over-estimated Carps athleticism or didn't really know the type of player needed for his own system. I'm not trying to be a wise-guy, either. You had excellent points in your post. The last sentence (quoted) just wouldn't seem to add up whether or not Carpenter is panning out as hoped or not. I thought Cable was looking for those road grader types? Correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[chrispy]

I like the idea of a 1st and/or 2nd on OL, but I just don't expect it. On top of that, The idea just isn't as appealing as reality when you look at it.

I may not be remembering correctly, but I think Sweezy was a 7th, Bowie was a 7th and Baily was undrafted. Lem was also undrafted. Compare that with Carp being a 1st rounder.

Earlier in this thread someone linked that Cable likes to develop his guys himself instead of getting starters in FA. We've also heard and read about how Cable really likes Carrol's individual-oriented philosophy. Not only has Cable suggested that he'd rather take someone that has the tools (without experience) and coach them up, history backs it up.

Remember Okung was drafted in the first round before Cable got here. I'm not saying it wouldn't have still happened, just that he wasn't part of that decision.

If we use either the history of the last few years, or what Cable preaches, we should expect OL to bring in a lot of players to compete. The ones that buy into what Cable's preaching will stick around. But there will also be a lot of cuts and churning on OL. Until Cable shows that he can't patch together an Oline with 7th round picks, undrafted FA, practice squad cuts and backup rejects from other teams we should just expect him to do what he does. In fact we should praise him for it.

Is there another team in the league that lined up 2 7th rounders, and 2 UDFA, and a FA practice squad cut in the same game.... on purpose?

I expect more of the same. ... and pray it works so there's extra cap for other needs.

 

[kearly]

McQuistan is a free agent. Interest in him is very weak, but I'm guessing he's played his last down here.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

What I wrote in a different thread prior to acquiring Schilling:

1. Okung and Unger need to stay healthy and play up to their sub-elite talent. Both having down years, I would assume they'll bounce back in 2014 or they might not be here for the long term if the team feels they are becoming damaged goods.

2. Its easy to sleep on Carpenter and Sweezy and claim how horrible they are but I wouldn't.

Carp for the first time in his career as a pro can workout and condition over the off-season. If he can whittle his weight down to a healthy 315-320, he's going to be a monster entering his contract season. Does he work hard to earn starting money or does he continue to linger thus becoming a journeyman making back-up money? If the team sees as a quality talent that's been slowed down by injuries then Cable has all the leverage he needs to inspire Carpenter to work harder this off-season and become the best that he can be.

Sweezy, is entering his 3rd year, and considering his process of development from where he came from as a rookie, I would ask you to take everything you feel about him and throw it out the door. Treat his first 2 years as an Offensive Lineman in the NFL like it was his 3-4 years playing in college, and now in his 3rd season is really like his true rookie season as an O-lineman. The guy has all the athleticism in the world to be special but its experience that's been holding him back.

Also, Patience is a virtue, we did win 28 games the last two years with some pretty mediorce talent at the G spots. And most of the games we lost in that time frame the Seahawks held leads only for the Defense to collaspe.

As for Right Tackle. I also wouldn't sleep on Michael Bowie, Alvin Bailey, and Caylin Hauptmann all being thrown into the fires of competition and letting the best man win. Cable may not be the best O-Line coach in the NFL nor even great at identifying talent but the one thing he does do his take the talent he does have and slowly maximizes it while forging through toughness.

If you asked me were pretty well-off as long as our best players remain healthy and the younger players continue to develop. But you could literally say that statement about any position group in any sport.

I would contend that were a little thin at Guard w/o McQuistan but Jeanpierre, Bailey, and Bowie are all versatile.

It wouldn't surprise me though if the Seahawks signed a cheap, vet or two to "compete" like Lutui and Barron did in 2012 aka veteran "camp fodder".

Then draft/sign as udfa another 3-4 O-Lineman like 2013 except this time they won't be pulling the triggers in the 7th round but in the early rounds.

The more competion the better, keep all these guys on their toes and hungry for opportunity.

 

[Scottemojo]

McQuistan is a free agent. Interest in him is very weak, but I'm guessing he's played his last down here.

I forgot, and let my fear do the typing.

 

[Largent80]

McQ is a ginger. Don't we have to keep him just for that alone?

 

[kearly]

McQuistan is a free agent. Interest in him is very weak, but I'm guessing he's played his last down here.

I forgot, and let my fear do the typing.

lol.

I thought McQuistan actually looked really good in a couple of those early preseason games last year. In retrospect, I should have kept those thoughts to myself.

 

[Happypuppy]

I agree carp is too "thick" and needs to shed 3-40 lbs of fat. It would lessen the strain on his knees and allow him to move better. He may have been a good one but hurt in year 1 and every year except last hurt his development. We will see on him. McQ really has regressed each year. I see not spot for him. I don't understand why they don't try JP as guard as well ; toss him in the mix. He has looked better each year.

 

[hawknation2014]

Bowey/Bailey looked like Pro Bowlers compared to McQuistan.

 

[BlueBlood]

If we were starting week 1 this Sunday I would agree with you. But there is an entire offseason that this front office will use to bring in cheap, young talent that they think can either play now or think they can mold into quality offensive linemen. As long as you have your LT, I'm not too worried about them churning a good oline out.

Regarding Breno, they obviously didn't think he was worth it. Injury and age not to mention cost.-

This. The front office will be able to snag a lot of the top last minute training camp cap cuts because of the desire people here to win..

Would you take 2 million to go to cleveland for a year or Seattle for a year? nuff said.. we gonna be aye ok

 

[Blitzer88]

Well, seems like they are gonna trust some of the young guys to step up next year. Don't know how I feel a bout that.

 

[Anthony!]

Well, seems like they are gonna trust some of the young guys to step up next year. Don't know how I feel a bout that.

Its a gamble given they are trying to protect our franchise QB. If the young guys screw up it could cost us our QB and the season.

 

[jammerhawk]

Perhaps Carp may be better playing on a team that doesn't expect more than drive blocking from him and I wonder if he's suited athletically to playing in zone blocking scheme.

Wasn't it Cable that identified Carpenter (and lobbied hard to draft him) to fit specifically into this scheme? If so, seems like he would have either over-estimated Carps athleticism or didn't really know the type of player needed for his own system. I'm not trying to be a wise-guy, either. You had excellent points in your post. The last sentence (quoted) just wouldn't seem to add up whether or not Carpenter is panning out as hoped or not. I thought Cable was looking for those road grader types? Correct me if I'm mistaken.

Thing is Cable got what he wanted from Carp in the portion of Carp's 1st season here and Carp proved to be unable to play RT b/c he was too slow in pass pro or maybe mentally unable to play on the right side. I suspect he's not panned out as they expected of him and he isn't the player they drafted. After that he was injured and except for rare flashes of exciting significant ability has been limited demonstrably by the reality he's way overweight and/or not in good shape or his knee has slowed him more. The fact he's been replaced by others at times like McQuistan and Bowie points out he's not in the good books of Coach Cable and he frequently appears less than totally focused. If what we now see from him is what we get, his lack of foot speed limits him as a LG in our scheme, and makes him better suited to being a straight up mauler in a drive blocking scheme. Thus my remark. This season is huge for Carp's future and we will see if a contract year makes any difference.

 

[themunn]

Remember that this will be Carpenters first offseason where he hasn't been injured/a rookie involved in the lockout, so although it's a contract year, I would expect to see him take a massive step forward as a result of that (rather than playing for money).

That said, if he doesn't show improvement, it's safe to say this he won't be with the team in 2015.

And with an extra year of experience under their belts, I wouldn't be surprised to see Bailey or Bowie (depending on which one wins the RT starting job) show a massive improvement over McQuistin should Okung go down again.
And when we look back at the line over the last half of the season, we faced a brutal run of pass rushes - Arizona, St Louis, San Francisco, New York and New Orleans, so whilst we will need to improve, I think the problem has been over-exaggerated somewhat based on how awful we looked with both Okung and Giacomini out

 

[brimsalabim]

the Carp will save us? Really? Is he going to lose the baby fat over the summer and get pumped up? jeez that would be great but I hope we aren't counting on it.
If we aren't bringing in any help for the line we better design some pick plays for the receivers to get open fast.

 

[RiverDog]

Breno was never the long term solution to the RT problem. I liked having him around as he gave our OL a bit of nastiness and he cleaned up his stupid penalties from two years ago, but we simply couldn't afford to match what the Jets gave him, not with Sherman, Thomas, and Wilson to resign in the next couple of seasons. I'm also not disappointed that we didn't go after any of the top FA linemen, for the same reason that we didn't resign Breno.

The problem is that we've ignored the OL for so long that we now find ourselves in the position of having to draft at least a couple of OL's this season, hope that at least one of them is good enough to start, and to compound the problem, we are picking from the bottom of the totem pole and are without our 3rd rounder. Since 2011 when we drafted Carpenter in the 1st and Moffitt in the 3rd, neither of whom fulfilled their expectations, we haven't signed any significant FA's nor have we expended more than two 7th rounders in the past two drafts. Instead of going into the draft in an opportunistic position where we can take the BPA if someone really good happens to fall, we have to take at least two linemen and probably two of our first 4 selections. The lack of a 3rd rounder will hurt our ability to trade up.

This is the reason why I was against the Percy Harvin trade. We gave up 3 picks for Harvin, picks we could have used on offensive linemen.

But we'll see. My understanding is that this draft is knee deep in OL talent, and that we should be able to draft a starting quality OL at our #32 spot.