Rams: The next divisional threat.

[RolandDeschain]

9er fans keep talking about us and them. Maybe again next year, but it will be us and the Rams thereafter.

DAMN YOU REDSKINS!

49ers are set up better long term than the seahawks

LOL.

the 49ers have way more starters locked up long term. how are they not?

Count how many 3rd-round-and-later draft picks we start overall compared to the 49ers. We're setup better by default because we draft better than anybody in the league overall. You can't fill a team with great players only hitting on players in the early rounds, that's for sure. The Seahawks consistently hitting on multiple draft picks in the mid/later rounds every draft will keep us contending for a long, long time.

 

[Sports Hernia]

9er fans keep talking about us and them. Maybe again next year, but it will be us and the Rams thereafter.

DAMN YOU REDSKINS!
49ers are set up better long term than the seahawks

LOL.

the 49ers have way more starters locked up long term. how are they not?

Count how many 3rd-round-and-later draft picks we start overall compared to the 49ers. We're setup better by default because we draft better than anybody in the league overall. You can't fill a team with great players only hitting on players in the early rounds, that's for sure. The Seahawks consistently hitting on multiple draft picks in the mid/later rounds every draft will keep us contending for a long, long time.

Not only that the Hawks seem to hit on undrafted FA's too. (Baldwin, Kearse)

 

[Throwdown]

Thanks to the Hawks and the Rams for spanking the taints. God I hate Drew cry baby Brees

You're evil. Nobody with a soul hates Brees

Lol na. I remember Farve being destroyed by the saints he never cried about being hit. This guy gets crushed and cries to the news. Hello it football drew. Man up a bit.

Favre deserved it, be real. If he had made the SB all sports stations would've been unwatchable.

 

[rlkats]

Thanks to the Hawks and the Rams for spanking the taints. God I hate Drew cry baby Brees

You're evil. Nobody with a soul hates Brees

Lol na. I remember Farve being destroyed by the saints he never cried about being hit. This guy gets crushed and cries to the news. Hello it football drew. Man up a bit.

Favre deserved it, be real. If he had made the SB all sports stations would've been unwatchable.

Hahaha true true.

 

[Ozzy]

There is no possible way the 49er's are set up better long term. The Wilson>Kaep situation is enough that the cap situations of everyone else almost dont matter. Clayton was on espn talking about the Seahawks future and he says Seattle has a plan and will keep just about everyone. Schnieder is a genius and will work his usual magic. You have a subpar QB and aging RB and 1 in his prime receiver and Davis. Justin Smith, Willis etc are on the downside of their careers. All of our superstars are on the way up. You guys are actually set up terribly because you will have a ton or roster turnover or run into a Ravens situation where you sign and keep a bunch of aging starters.

 

[Marvin49]

OK...

RIGHT NOW, the Seahawks have more YOUNG talent on the roster. The 49ers base of good players IS older so I can completely see Seahawks fans impression that they have a much better long term future. That could very well be correct.

If there is anything I've learned though is that things don't always work out the way people expect them to. The only players I am concerned about trhe 49ers losing to age are Gore and Justin Smith and they've been in the process of replacing them for a few years now. We'll see how those younger guys are able to step up...in particular Marcus Lattimore and Tank Carradine. Everyone on this site seemed to think the 49er secondary was in big trouble with the loss of Goldson yet they currently rank 4th in pass defense despite missing their all-pro pass rusher for 5 games. Reid is younger, cheaper, and BETTER than Goldson. Carlos Rogers will be gone next year and Trumaine Brock has played extremely well (and was just extended...will likely start next year). Jonathan Goodwin is also probably in his last year and they have already been grooming Daniel Kilgore to take that spot. They'll also get Chris Culliver back to play corner.

Bottom line, while a few of the 49ers starters are getting older, the assumption that they are about to start a huge decline is really overblown. They've been drafting young players at those positions for several years and still have ELEVEN picks next year. These teams aren't static. They change every year.

The Seahawks are going to lose some guys because of their contract situations, but they also will be adding players through the draft.

I guess basically I'm saying that the argument over who is setup for a better long term future is kinda pointless as there are too many variables and you just never really know. A few years ago everyone was talking about how the Packers would dominate for years because they were so young. Hows that working out for them?

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Thanks to the Hawks and the Rams for spanking the taints. God I hate Drew cry baby Brees

You're evil. Nobody with a soul hates Brees

Of course he has no soul, he's a Whiners fan.

 

[-The Glove-]

OK...

RIGHT NOW, the Seahawks have more YOUNG talent on the roster. The 49ers base of good players IS older so I can completely see Seahawks fans impression that they have a much better long term future. That could very well be correct.

If there is anything I've learned though is that things don't always work out the way people expect them to. The only players I am concerned about trhe 49ers losing to age are Gore and Justin Smith and they've been in the process of replacing them for a few years now. We'll see how those younger guys are able to step up...in particular Marcus Lattimore and Tank Carradine. Everyone on this site seemed to think the 49er secondary was in big trouble with the loss of Goldson yet they currently rank 4th in pass defense despite missing their all-pro pass rusher for 5 games. Reid is younger, cheaper, and BETTER than Goldson. Carlos Rogers will be gone next year and Trumaine Brock has played extremely well (and was just extended...will likely start next year). Jonathan Goodwin is also probably in his last year and they have already been grooming Daniel Kilgore to take that spot. They'll also get Chris Culliver back to play corner.

Bottom line, while a few of the 49ers starters are getting older, the assumption that they are about to start a huge decline is really overblown. They've been drafting young players at those positions for several years and still have ELEVEN picks next year. These teams aren't static. They change every year.

The Seahawks are going to lose some guys because of their contract situations, but they also will be adding players through the draft.

I guess basically I'm saying that the argument over who is setup for a better long term future is kinda pointless as there are too many variables and you just never really know. A few years ago everyone was talking about how the Packers would dominate for years because they were so young. Hows that working out for them?

You mean with Rodgers out for half the season?

 

[Marvin49]

OK...

RIGHT NOW, the Seahawks have more YOUNG talent on the roster. The 49ers base of good players IS older so I can completely see Seahawks fans impression that they have a much better long term future. That could very well be correct.

If there is anything I've learned though is that things don't always work out the way people expect them to. The only players I am concerned about trhe 49ers losing to age are Gore and Justin Smith and they've been in the process of replacing them for a few years now. We'll see how those younger guys are able to step up...in particular Marcus Lattimore and Tank Carradine. Everyone on this site seemed to think the 49er secondary was in big trouble with the loss of Goldson yet they currently rank 4th in pass defense despite missing their all-pro pass rusher for 5 games. Reid is younger, cheaper, and BETTER than Goldson. Carlos Rogers will be gone next year and Trumaine Brock has played extremely well (and was just extended...will likely start next year). Jonathan Goodwin is also probably in his last year and they have already been grooming Daniel Kilgore to take that spot. They'll also get Chris Culliver back to play corner.

Bottom line, while a few of the 49ers starters are getting older, the assumption that they are about to start a huge decline is really overblown. They've been drafting young players at those positions for several years and still have ELEVEN picks next year. These teams aren't static. They change every year.

The Seahawks are going to lose some guys because of their contract situations, but they also will be adding players through the draft.

I guess basically I'm saying that the argument over who is setup for a better long term future is kinda pointless as there are too many variables and you just never really know. A few years ago everyone was talking about how the Packers would dominate for years because they were so young. Hows that working out for them?

You mean with Rodgers out for half the season?

I mean they were thought to be unbeatable and then the Giants knocked them off in the playoffs 2 years ago and the Niners have beaten them 3 straight times...all with Rodgers playing.

 

[Popeyejones]

I think first we'd have to settle on what we mean by long term, but the operative variable for this discussion is replacement given cap considerations. Because of that, we can't even make the comparison to begin with because we have some data on the 9ers (who are a year ahead of the Hawks in having to deal with the cap) but simply don't have any data on the Hawks yet and won't until this off-season at the earliest. Are the guys who are going to have to be replacements already on the roster or do they need to be drafted? How will they perform as starters and will they actually be able to replace the skill level? We just don't know yet.

Basically, just as the 9ers have, the Hawks will have to lose some Pro-Bowlers and some important role players, and we have no idea how they'll do on replacement. For the 9ers, so far I think they're doing well, but they're also a tad older.

Replacements:

Goldson was an All-Pro who had to be let go b/c of cap considerations. Reid is his replacement, and so far is as good or better than Goldson.

Sopoaga and Francois were important role players who were let go as cap considerations, and so far Ian Williams and Glen Dorsey (their replacements) are as good as them.

Snyder was a cap casualty at RG, and so far Boone >>>>>>>>>> Snyder (after signing a big contract with Zona Snyder was even cut after the year and is now back as a backup for the 9ers behind Boone, who is their best or second best lineman this year).

Delanie Walker was an important role player was was also a cap casualty, and his replacements are basically Bruce Miller and Vance McDonald. Miller has been great, but I don't think these guys have matched Walker yet.

Coming up we'll see if Brock and Wright (and probably a draft pick) can be replacements for Rogers and Brown. We might see if they have or get a replacement for Whitner, if Tank Carradine can grow into a replacement for Justin Smith, if Lattimore/Hunter/James can grow into a replacement for Gore, if Lemonier can grow into a replacement for Brooks, etc.

 

[Marvin49]

I think first we'd have to settle on what we mean by long term, but the operative variable for this discussion is replacement given cap considerations. Because of that, we can't even make the comparison to begin with because we have some data on the 9ers (who are a year ahead of the Hawks in having to deal with the cap) but simply don't have any data on the Hawks yet and won't until this off-season at the earliest.

Basically, just as the 9ers have, the Hawks will have to lose some Pro-Bowlers and some important role players, and we have no idea how they'll do on replacement. For the 9ers, so far I think they're doing well, but they're also a tad older.

Replacements:

Goldson was an All-Pro who had to be let go b/c of cap considerations. Reid is his replacement, and so far is as good or better than Goldson.

Sopoaga and Francois were important role players, and so far Ian Williams and Glen Dorsey (their replacements) are as good as them.

Snyder was a cap casualty at RG, and so far Boone >>>>>>>>>> Snyder (after signing a big contract with Zona Snyder was even cut after the year and is now back as a backup for the 9ers behind Boone, who is their best or second best lineman this year).

Delanie Walker was an important role player, and his replacements are basically Bruce Miller and Vance McDonald. Miller has been great, but I don't think these guys have matched Walker yet.

Coming up we'll see if Brock and Wright (and probably a draft pick) can be replacements for Rogers and Brown. We might see if they have or get a replacement for Whitner, if Tank Carradine can grow into a replacement for Justin Smith, if Lattimore/Hunter/James can grow into a replacement for Gore, if Lemonier can grow into a replacement for Brooks, etc.

Exactly.

The problem with the "long term" argument is that it assumes the rosters are static and that the teams will be unable to replace the players they lose. The reality is that you have to see WHO they replace those players with. If they replace Gore and Justin with BETTER players (highly unlikely but this is just a hypothetical) then this argument gets flipped upside down.

Bottom line, I think you just can't make any arguement either way because you don't know what the future holds.

The only thing we can say for sure is that the Seahawks base of talent is younger, but they are also unsigned and they currently have fewer draft picks.

 

[Popeyejones]

The only thing we can say for sure is that the Seahawks base of talent is younger, but they are also unsigned and they currently have fewer draft picks.

Yep. TBF though, when it comes to the cap, age doesn't matter that much, and old age might actually help in the transitioning to replacements. The 9ers are already having to let people go because of the cap. If Willis, Gore, Smith, and Davis were in their Mid-20s instead of their late 20s and early 30s, it wouldn't make things any easier; they'd have the same huge contracts they have to deal with plus four more! Instead, IMO it would make it harder, as these guys would demand MUCH bigger contracts than they will be at their current ages, should they restructure/resign. For instance, if Goldson was on the wrong side of 30 rather than in his prime when he left, there's no way he would have ended up as the highest paid safety in the league. It might have even been possible to sign him to a several year, mid-level deal or extension, meaning a replacement could have been groomed rather than (the VERY risky) plug-and-play approach the 9ers were forced to take with Reid because Goldson was an All Pro in his prime, and they already had too many of those coming up to keep him.

Essentially, in the long term, the cap is unavoidable, and having all of your talent in the same age bracket posses enormous challenges that having a more even distribution in talent and age doesn't. If you have all your top talent between the ages of 24 and 27 or so, all of those guys are going to break the bank and the losses are going to be much bigger than if you have a more even age distribution. Basically, young talent >>>>>>>>>>> older talent for the obvious reasons along almost all metrics, but the cap and long term consideration just ain't one of them.

Edit: should also say that this less true for obvious reasons in other eras of the cap. When the cap was going up by a gigantic percentage from it's founding until 2005 or so, this wouldn't matter that much. As we've been in essentially a flat cap era for the last five or six years and will likely remain in one for at least the next two or three years and as many as 8 years (the NFL is excited that the cap is going up by about 2.5% next year -- pretty soon they won't have to poach from the pension fund to keep it from going down! ), the lack of age distribution in talent can be more of a problem.

 

[Popeyejones]

. If Willis, Gore, Smith, and Davis

Why are we talking about this?

1. Because we're talking about the salary cap -- which you already understand given that your only other post in this thread is about the salary cap -- and because it was just an illustrative example about the salary cap.

2. Because the 9ers have been part of the discussion from the OP. Want proof? The first word of the first post is "9ers" lol: ), and the first post is predicting the downfall of the 9ers. You can either not lay bait like that or complain about a couple 9ers fans participating. You can't do both at the same time.

Talk about the Rams future talent or GTFO of the thread.

:lol:

Or what?

If you're mad about someone bringing the 9ers into this get mad at the OP. I didn't even bother with it until the conversation shifted to long term salary cap considerations, which is the part both of us find interesting, silly.

 

[Ninerg]

Lets start with QB.

Russell Wilson haven't proven anything yet. He still trying to go where Kap's already been, the SB.

Russell Wilson has already reached his peak. Kap has way more upside.

 

[Chapow]

Rams have been drafting in the top 10 for a decade.

Wake me when they get to .500

Yep, this is where I'm at too. 9ers and Cards are both better than the Rams until the Rams prove otherwise.

Rams are and will continue to be the least of our worries in this division.

 

[Sarlacc83]

Lets start with QB.

Russell Wilson haven't proven anything yet. He still trying to go where Kap's already been, the SB.

Russell Wilson has already reached his peak. Kap has way more upside.

Top 5 QB is a pretty high peak, even if you believe he's hit it (which he hasn't). Kaep will only hit his ceiling if looking up is first read.

Also, any 49er hanging their hate on Lattimore is crazy. His knee is held together by duct tape and gum at this point. (And don't tell me about McGahee who's more exception than rule.)

 

[Brahn]

. If Willis, Gore, Smith, and Davis

Why are we talking about this?

1. Because we're talking about the salary cap -- which you already understand given that your only other post in this thread is about the salary cap -- and because it was just an illustrative example about the salary cap.

2. Because the 9ers have been part of the discussion from the OP. Want proof? The first word of the first post is "9ers" lol: ), and the first post is predicting the downfall of the 9ers. You can either not lay bait like that or complain about a couple 9ers fans participating. You can't do both at the same time.

Talk about the Rams future talent or GTFO of the thread.

:lol:

Or what?



If you're mad about someone bringing the 9ers into this get mad at the OP. I didn't even bother with it until the conversation shifted to long term salary cap considerations, which is the part both of us find interesting, silly.

AHHHHHHHHHH-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Brahn]

Lets start with QB.

Russell Wilson haven't proven anything yet. He still trying to go where Kap's already been, the SB.

Russell Wilson has already reached his peak. Kap has way more upside.

AHHHHHHHHHHH-OOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[CurryStopstheRuns]

Lets start with QB.

Russell Wilson haven't proven anything yet. He still trying to go where Kap's already been, the SB.

Russell Wilson has already reached his peak. Kap has way more upside.

[youtube]soXMCkoWfQo[/youtube]

 

[Brahn]

I think first we'd have to settle on what we mean by long term, but the operative variable for this discussion is replacement given cap considerations. Because of that, we can't even make the comparison to begin with because we have some data on the 9ers (who are a year ahead of the Hawks in having to deal with the cap) but simply don't have any data on the Hawks yet and won't until this off-season at the earliest.

Basically, just as the 9ers have, the Hawks will have to lose some Pro-Bowlers and some important role players, and we have no idea how they'll do on replacement. For the 9ers, so far I think they're doing well, but they're also a tad older.

Replacements:

Goldson was an All-Pro who had to be let go b/c of cap considerations. Reid is his replacement, and so far is as good or better than Goldson.

Sopoaga and Francois were important role players, and so far Ian Williams and Glen Dorsey (their replacements) are as good as them.

Snyder was a cap casualty at RG, and so far Boone >>>>>>>>>> Snyder (after signing a big contract with Zona Snyder was even cut after the year and is now back as a backup for the 9ers behind Boone, who is their best or second best lineman this year).



Delanie Walker was an important role player, and his replacements are basically Bruce Miller and Vance McDonald. Miller has been great, but I don't think these guys have matched Walker yet.

Coming up we'll see if Brock and Wright (and probably a draft pick) can be replacements for Rogers and Brown. We might see if they have or get a replacement for Whitner, if Tank Carradine can grow into a replacement for Justin Smith, if Lattimore/Hunter/James can grow into a replacement for Gore, if Lemonier can grow into a replacement for Brooks, etc.

Exactly.

The problem with the "long term" argument is that it assumes the rosters are static and that the teams will be unable to replace the players they lose. The reality is that you have to see WHO they replace those players with. If they replace Gore and Justin with BETTER players (highly unlikely but this is just a hypothetical) then this argument gets flipped upside down.

Bottom line, I think you just can't make any arguement either way because you don't know what the future holds.

The only thing we can say for sure is that the Seahawks base of talent is younger, but they are also unsigned and they currently have fewer draft picks.

AHHHHHHHHHHHH-OOOOOOOOOOOO