Russ gets his new deal in Denver

[JustTheTip]

Mike Salk had an interesting theory on why RW3 gave Denver a break while he fought for every penny from the Seahawlks.

He said it was about Control. That Russ wanted to dictate more than what the Seahawks would allow. The article details several scenarios/explanations, but ultilmately said that with the control he has in Denver, it will on him if there is success or not.

Why Russell Wilson gave Broncos break he wouldn't have given Seahawks

Mike Salk says the new Russell Wilson contract with the Broncos gives them a break the Seahawks wouldn't have gotten -- because of control.

sports.mynorthwest.com

I don't know if it would have solved the problem, but I would have liked to see how things would have gone if he had been given that control here a few years ago. I guess we will get some indicator of that based on what happens in Denver and also how things go in Seattle now that he is gone but Pete is still here.

 

[FrodosFinger]

Mike Salk had an interesting theory on why RW3 gave Denver a break while he fought for every penny from the Seahawlks.

He said it was about Control. That Russ wanted to dictate more than what the Seahawks would allow. The article details several scenarios/explanations, but ultilmately said that with the control he has in Denver, it will on him if there is success or not.

Why Russell Wilson gave Broncos break he wouldn't have given Seahawks

Mike Salk says the new Russell Wilson contract with the Broncos gives them a break the Seahawks wouldn't have gotten -- because of control.

sports.mynorthwest.com

I didn’t want a guy who couldn’t audible to Lynch in the Super Bowl dictating anything. It became more about Russ and less about the team. Russ has also regressed and lacks elite mobility. He isn’t a pocket passer he’s best as a game manager with a scripted set of plays. Certainly not worth 55 mil a year lol

 

[flv2]

4 years for $165M plus team option years. It sounds like a good contract for both sides.

 

[Fade]

@BleuEyedHawk, Mike Salk is right for a change. Control freak Pete wasn't going to give Russ nuthin, that's why he's gone. It wasn't about the money for Russ, but winning for him. He knew old man Pete was hindering that.

The Seahawks now need JS to do something that I don't know has ever been done. A GM drafting another HoF QB in an 11 year span. I can't recall anyone doing that.


Patrick Mahomes cap hits the next 3 seasons:

2022: $35.8M
2023: $46.8M
2024: $44.3M

Russell Wilson cap hits the next 3 seasons:

2022: $17M
2023: $22M
2024: $35.4M

Greedy Mahomes needs to be more like good guy Russ and take less if he wants to remain competitive.

 

[Fade]

I didn’t want a guy who couldn’t audible to Lynch in the Super Bowl dictating anything. It became more about Russ and less about the team. Russ has also regressed and lacks elite mobility. He isn’t a pocket passer he’s best as a game manager with a scripted set of plays. Certainly not worth 55 mil a year lol

I don't want a coach that preaches running the football and toughness, then contradicts that philosophy on the 1 yard line.

 

[balakoth]

@BleuEyedHawk, Mike Salk is right for a change. Control freak Pete wasn't going to give Russ nuthin, that's why he's gone. It wasn't about the money for Russ, but winning for him. He knew old man Pete was hindering that.

The Seahawks now need JS to do something that I don't know has ever been done. A GM drafting another HoF QB in an 11 year span. I can't recall anyone doing that.


Patrick Mahomes cap hits the next 3 seasons:

2022: $35.8M
2023: $46.8M
2024: $44.3M

Russell Wilson cap hits the next 3 seasons:

2022: $17M
2023: $22M
2024: $35.4M

Greedy Mahomes needs to be more like good guy Russ and take less if he wants to remain competitive.

Pete was hindering what? Wilsons in ability to do anything but wing it? Gimme a break

 

[Fade]

Pete was hindering what? Wilsons in ability to do anything but wing it? Gimme a break

Offensive philosophy, input on offensive gameplans, some say in personnel (throw him a bone, like pick a WR, not run the team.)

Do those things and you have a QB with half the cap hit as Patrick Mahomes the next two seasons.

You think Wilson is winging it out there? Good one.

 

[JustTheTip]

Offensive philosophy, input on offensive gameplans, some say in personnel (throw him a bone, like pick a WR, not run the team.)

Do those things and you have a QB with half the cap hit as Patrick Mahomes the next two seasons.

You think Wilson is winging it out there? Good one.

A little bit funny hearing these words come out of Warner's mouth considering how he has talked about Wilson for the last decade.

In Seattle: not a prototypical pocket passer and he needs to work on that before he could truly become a top of the league QB (at least as recently as last offseason)
In Denver: Russel Wilson, one of the best quarterbacks in the league. As I watch tape on him I get more and more impressed.

 

[Lagartixa]

Patrick Mahomes cap hits the next 3 seasons:

2022: $35.8M
2023: $46.8M
2024: $44.3M

Russell Wilson cap hits the next 3 seasons:

2022: $17M
2023: $22M
2024: $35.4M

Greedy Mahomes needs to be more like good guy Russ and take less if he wants to remain competitive.

Mahomes is the best player in the league and has been (a very deserving) league MVP. Wilson has never gotten even a single MVP vote. Mahomes is about to start his age-27 season, that is, it wouldn't be all that surprising if his performance were to continue to improve this year. Wilson is 33 and has taken a lot of wear and tear. So we should expect a lot more value from Mahomes going forward than from Wilson.

Mahomes didn't demand a trade, forcing his team to eat tens of millions of dollars in dead cap so he could try to pull a Brady and go to a stacked-except-at-QB team, only with two super-cheap years subsidized by the team he screwed.

I'll give the Broncos credit for being able to reduce the 2022 and 2023 cap hits even further with the extension, but they wouldn't have gotten even close to that if Wilson hadn't made the Seahawks eat the dead money from moving him two years before the end of his contract.

 

[hgwellz12]

A little bit funny hearing these words come out of Warner's mouth considering how he has talked about Wilson for the last decade.

In Seattle: not a prototypical pocket passer and he needs to work on that before he could truly become a top of the league QB (at least as recently as last offseason)
In Denver: Russel Wilson, one of the best quarterbacks in the league. As I watch tape on him I get more and more impressed.

Facts! Kurt just hates the Seahawks. But I can't stand him, so its all G.

 

[5thgen]

It's more about recent stats in this league and Wilson have put on a crap show the last couple of years. Some still think he's the same qb that played 10 yrs ago. Very glad he's Denver's problem.

 

[Fade]

Mahomes is the best player in the league and has been (a very deserving) league MVP. Wilson has never gotten even a single MVP vote. Mahomes is about to start his age-27 season, that is, it wouldn't be all that surprising if his performance were to continue to improve this year. Wilson is 33 and has taken a lot of wear and tear. So we should expect a lot more value from Mahomes going forward than from Wilson.

Mahomes didn't demand a trade, forcing his team to eat tens of millions of dollars in dead cap so he could try to pull a Brady and go to a stacked-except-at-QB team, only with two super-cheap years subsidized by the team he screwed.

I'll give the Broncos credit for being able to reduce the 2022 and 2023 cap hits even further with the extension, but they wouldn't have gotten even close to that if Wilson hadn't made the Seahawks eat the dead money from moving him two years before the end of his contract.

Wilson didn't make the Seahawks do anything. The Seahawks (Pete Carroll) mismanaged themselves into a dumpster fire and had no choice but to trade their disgruntled HoF QB to speed up their rebuild. They desperately needed picks. And they didn't have much of anything on the roster to trade. DK and Russ were their options to get significant capitol, that's it.


PATRICK MAHOMES (2019-2021) via pro-football-reference

46 Games Started
66.2% completion
7.9 YPA
101 TDs
24 INTs (Led the league in dropped interceptions I believe all three of these years, as a side note.)
103.7 Passer Rating

Rushing: 903 yards at 5.3 YPA; 6 TDs.

PFF Pass Pro O-Line Grades (2, 11, 5)

"The Chiefs’ offensive line can be made out to look worse than it is in pass protection because of the way Patrick Mahomes plays the position and the deeper drops he takes. In fact, a position-high 53 pressures were charged to Mahomes himself over the course of the regular season. It’s something that the Chiefs will gladly live with because of the plays that Mahomes can make and the way he avoids negative plays, but it’s something to keep in mind when evaluating the offensive line."



RUSSELL WILSON (2019-2021) via pro-football-reference

46 Games Started
66.8% completion
7.8 YPA
96 TDs
24 INTs
105.0 Passer Rating

Rushing: 1038 yards at 5.2 YPA; 7 TDs.

PFF Pass Pro O-Line Grades (30, 16, 25)

"Wilson has been able to succeed despite the pass protection from his line, but that doesn’t change the fact that it has often been an issue — and it was a problem again this season. The Seahawks' pressure rate allowed in 2.5 seconds or less of 26.7% this year was third worst in the league, ahead of only the Jets and Dolphins."

======

Bearing this in mind if Russell Wilson played for Andy Reed his production would go up. Better O-Line, better coaching. Virtually every QB plays better under Andy Reed, he's a true QB guru.

If Patrick Mahomes played for Pete Carroll his production would go down, worse staff, worse O-Line, play Pete Ball for 3 quarters a game, and then attempt to win it in the 4th.

Have to play the Rams, 49ers, & Cards 6 times a year. Some of the best D-Lines in football.

This should impress you. And there's no way Mahomes wouldn't demand a trade if he to had to play Pete Ball for a decade, getting killed behind Tom Cable O-Lines if he survived it that is.

Denver now has the richest owner in the NFL. They will rework Wilson's deal in a few years to keep his cap numbers down. Cash over Cap rules all. They are going to have a competitive advantage in this area and follow what the Rams have been doing. KC better get on it or they're going to start to fall behind.

Wilson is getting older for sure, and his running numbers are going to drop (they already have.) However I still expect him to perform well as a passer these next three years, if he avoids injury. (30+ TDs, high single digit INTs.) If he had Mahomes quality O-Line in Denver, I'd be thinking 40+ TDs, but Denver's O-Line is mid, but maybe…

Why do you expect Mahomes to trend up? His QBR has been trending downward since he won the MVP. 62.2/100 last year. Now he's lost Tyreek Hill, Kelce looked slow last year and is now a year older. Mahomes might have a down year this year. If nobody emerges in their receiving core particularly Valdez-Scantling or Juju. If one of those two don't Mahomes will have a down year. His interception luck has to run out sometime as well.

 

[Fade]

It's more about recent stats in this league and Wilson have put on a crap show the last couple of years. Some still think he's the same qb that played 10 yrs ago. Very glad he's Denver's problem.

Read my post above.

 

[olyfan63]

Ok then even if we throw those 3 out the list is still:

Mahomes
Brady
Rodgers
Allen
Burrow
Herbert
Lamar
Watson
Stafford

That would put Russ at 10th in the league! Getting 1st tier money! Would you agree with that list soulfishhawk??? I'll forgive you saying you can't take me seriously for having a different opinion!

Your point is spot on, the idiocy of the Donks paying first-tier money for second-tier DECLINING talent. I like it... if we get to another SB vs Donks* we'll win again.

I also agree with those who say that Dak, Murray, and Carr aren't "better" than Russell Wilson, but chopping them from the list doesn't change your excellent point. I would also quibble about Lamar Jackson being "better than" Russell, though he's clearly a better *runner* it seems like a wash overall. Also doesn't affect your overall point.

* Future headline: 'In SB LIX, with Richard Sherman having returned to coach the Seahawks DBs, the "Legion of Sherm" picked off Russell Wilson 4 times, sacked him 5 times, and shut down the Broncos running game en route to a 38-10 Seahawks win. RBs Kenneth Wilson III and Rashaad Penny combined for over 200 yards and 3 TDs on the ground while QB Drew lock threw 2 TDs to offset his 2 INTs. '

 

[JustTheTip]

PATRICK MAHOMES (2019-2021) via pro-football-reference

24 INTs (Led the league in dropped interceptions I believe all three of these years, as a side note.)

My wife is from KC so I end up watching a lot of Chiefs games. I have made the comment to her many times that Mahomes has got to be the luckiest motherf***** ever when it comes to dropped interceptions.

 

[olyfan63]

Wilson didn't make the Seahawks do anything. The Seahawks (Pete Carroll) mismanaged themselves into a dumpster fire and had no choice but to trade their disgruntled HoF QB to speed up their rebuild. They desperately needed picks. And they didn't have much of anything on the roster to trade. DK and Russ were their options to get significant capitol, that's it.


PATRICK MAHOMES (2019-2021) via pro-football-reference

46 Games Started
66.2% completion
7.9 YPA
101 TDs
24 INTs (Led the league in dropped interceptions I believe all three of these years, as a side note.)
103.7 Passer Rating

Rushing: 903 yards at 5.3 YPA; 6 TDs.

PFF Pass Pro O-Line Grades (2, 11, 5)

"The Chiefs’ offensive line can be made out to look worse than it is in pass protection because of the way Patrick Mahomes plays the position and the deeper drops he takes. In fact, a position-high 53 pressures were charged to Mahomes himself over the course of the regular season. It’s something that the Chiefs will gladly live with because of the plays that Mahomes can make and the way he avoids negative plays, but it’s something to keep in mind when evaluating the offensive line."

View attachment 54336

RUSSELL WILSON (2019-2021) via pro-football-reference

46 Games Started
66.8% completion
7.8 YPA
96 TDs
24 INTs
105.0 Passer Rating

Rushing: 1038 yards at 5.2 YPA; 7 TDs.

PFF Pass Pro O-Line Grades (30, 16, 25)

"Wilson has been able to succeed despite the pass protection from his line, but that doesn’t change the fact that it has often been an issue — and it was a problem again this season. The Seahawks' pressure rate allowed in 2.5 seconds or less of 26.7% this year was third worst in the league, ahead of only the Jets and Dolphins."

======

Bearing this in mind if Russell Wilson played for Andy Reed his production would go up. Better O-Line, better coaching. Virtually every QB plays better under Andy Reed, he's a true QB guru.

If Patrick Mahomes played for Pete Carroll his production would go down, worse staff, worse O-Line, play Pete Ball for 3 quarters a game, and then attempt to win it in the 4th.

Have to play the Rams, 49ers, & Cards 6 times a year. Some of the best D-Lines in football.

This should impress you. And there's no way Mahomes wouldn't demand a trade if he to had to play Pete Ball for a decade, getting killed behind Tom Cable O-Lines if he survived it that is.

Denver now has the richest owner in the NFL. They will rework Wilson's deal in a few years to keep his cap numbers down. Cash over Cap rules all. They are going to have a competitive advantage in this area and follow what the Rams have been doing. KC better get on it or they're going to start to fall behind.

Wilson is getting older for sure, and his running numbers are going to drop (they already have.) However I still expect him to perform well as a passer these next three years, if he avoids injury. (30+ TDs, high single digit INTs.) If he had Mahomes quality O-Line in Denver, I'd be thinking 40+ TDs, but Denver's O-Line is mid, but maybe…

Why do you expect Mahomes to trend up? His QBR has been trending downward since he won the MVP. 62.2/100 last year. Now he's lost Tyreek Hill, Kelce looked slow last year and is now a year older. Mahomes might have a down year this year. If nobody emerges in their receiving core particularly Valdez-Scantling or Juju. If one of those two don't Mahomes will have a down year. His interception luck has to run out sometime as well.

I recall Wilson beat Mahomes in a memorable primetime shootout a few years back. My issue with Wilson is that Pete Carroll's "business model" can't succeed with a bottom-of-the-top-10 QB getting top-tier QB money and tying up so much of the team's salary cap that they can't sign and keep top-tier talent on D.

Carroll and Schneider "mismanaged" the team into a "dumpster fire" until they finally figured out that overpaying a QB doesn't lead to playoff wins.

 

[fenderbender123]

When will NFL wages finally level off? It seems like they go up waaaay faster than the average American wage for some reason.

 

[5thgen]

When will NFL wages finally level off? It seems like they go up waaaay faster than the average American wage for some reason.

When fans realize they're better off spending money elsewhere rather than $10 beers and $100 tix.

 

[5thgen]

Wilson didn't make the Seahawks do anything. The Seahawks (Pete Carroll) mismanaged themselves into a dumpster fire and had no choice but to trade their disgruntled HoF QB to speed up their rebuild. They desperately needed picks. And they didn't have much of anything on the roster to trade. DK and Russ were their options to get significant capitol, that's it.


PATRICK MAHOMES (2019-2021) via pro-football-reference

46 Games Started
66.2% completion
7.9 YPA
101 TDs
24 INTs (Led the league in dropped interceptions I believe all three of these years, as a side note.)
103.7 Passer Rating

Rushing: 903 yards at 5.3 YPA; 6 TDs.

PFF Pass Pro O-Line Grades (2, 11, 5)

"The Chiefs’ offensive line can be made out to look worse than it is in pass protection because of the way Patrick Mahomes plays the position and the deeper drops he takes. In fact, a position-high 53 pressures were charged to Mahomes himself over the course of the regular season. It’s something that the Chiefs will gladly live with because of the plays that Mahomes can make and the way he avoids negative plays, but it’s something to keep in mind when evaluating the offensive line."

View attachment 54336

RUSSELL WILSON (2019-2021) via pro-football-reference

46 Games Started
66.8% completion
7.8 YPA
96 TDs
24 INTs
105.0 Passer Rating

Rushing: 1038 yards at 5.2 YPA; 7 TDs.

PFF Pass Pro O-Line Grades (30, 16, 25)

"Wilson has been able to succeed despite the pass protection from his line, but that doesn’t change the fact that it has often been an issue — and it was a problem again this season. The Seahawks' pressure rate allowed in 2.5 seconds or less of 26.7% this year was third worst in the league, ahead of only the Jets and Dolphins."

======

Bearing this in mind if Russell Wilson played for Andy Reed his production would go up. Better O-Line, better coaching. Virtually every QB plays better under Andy Reed, he's a true QB guru.

If Patrick Mahomes played for Pete Carroll his production would go down, worse staff, worse O-Line, play Pete Ball for 3 quarters a game, and then attempt to win it in the 4th.

Have to play the Rams, 49ers, & Cards 6 times a year. Some of the best D-Lines in football.

This should impress you. And there's no way Mahomes wouldn't demand a trade if he to had to play Pete Ball for a decade, getting killed behind Tom Cable O-Lines if he survived it that is.

Denver now has the richest owner in the NFL. They will rework Wilson's deal in a few years to keep his cap numbers down. Cash over Cap rules all. They are going to have a competitive advantage in this area and follow what the Rams have been doing. KC better get on it or they're going to start to fall behind.

Wilson is getting older for sure, and his running numbers are going to drop (they already have.) However I still expect him to perform well as a passer these next three years, if he avoids injury. (30+ TDs, high single digit INTs.) If he had Mahomes quality O-Line in Denver, I'd be thinking 40+ TDs, but Denver's O-Line is mid, but maybe…

Why do you expect Mahomes to trend up? His QBR has been trending downward since he won the MVP. 62.2/100 last year. Now he's lost Tyreek Hill, Kelce looked slow last year and is now a year older. Mahomes might have a down year this year. If nobody emerges in their receiving core particularly Valdez-Scantling or Juju. If one of those two don't Mahomes will have a down year. His interception luck has to run out sometime as well.

These stats don't account for the number of times Russ runs in circles just to get sacked, don't see wide open receivers and get sacked, or decided to run when there are open receivers. Most importantly time of possession and three and outs. I swear, he must lead the league with three and outs.

 

[BASF]

My wife is from KC so I end up watching a lot of Chiefs games. I have made the comment to her many times that Mahomes has got to be the luckiest motherf***** ever when it comes to dropped interceptions.

That would be Joe Montana.