Russell Wilson has declared war on the Seahawks

[hawk45]

When RW first went public, people were asking why he didn’t air his complaints privately. But many of us assumed he already had, and was basically dismissed by the FO. This pretty much confirms that.

Here’s what happened next, via the story in TheAthletic.com: “Before the Thursday night game against Arizona, Wilson met with his coaches. For some time, Wilson has sought — even pushed — for influence within the organization regarding scheme and personnel. In the meeting, he outlined his own ideas for how to fix the offense. His suggestions were dismissed, multiple sources told The Athletic — another reminder to Wilson that the Seahawks did not see him the same way he saw himself, as a player who had earned greater control over his situation, his future, his legacy. He stormed out of the room.”

And then if that weren’t enough, there was this…. (previously posted in this thread by another .net member)

More: After watching the Bucs-Chiefs Super Bowl in Tampa, Russell Wilson spoke with Pete Carroll to discuss how they’ll fix the o-line. Wilson wanted to know the team’s plan, but it wasn’t relayed to him, at least not to his satisfaction. Wilson then took the message public.

If those reports/quotes above are accurate, I could certainly see how Russ would feel under appreciated and disrespected by his HC. In that scenario, I would want out too.

Pete left Russ no other choice than to go public. Call it click bait if you wish, but there are too many reports from different sources to just dismiss these rumors as click bait. If you really believe that, I think you're in denial. And as someone else said, if they weren’t true, why hasn’t RW come out and said so? Common sense would dictate that these reports are valid, and that there’s a serious divide between Russ and Pete.

I personally don’t think Pete and Russ are going to be able to coexist. This is a clear power struggle between the two, and if the Seahawks want to keep their HOF QB, Pete needs to go now. I didn’t think it was possible given that he had just signed a new 5-year extension, but I don’t see any other resolution. Russ is clearly a hell of a lot more valuable than a “has been” head coach who’s expiration date was up a long time ago.

How I wish Paul Allen was still alive. This would have already been resolved by now. Where the hell is Jody?

Actually, correct me if I'm wrong, but when these reports first began to surface, didn't I read or hear of a quote attributed to Jody stating she would never allow the team to trade Russ? Anyone remember that or did I confuse it with someone else?

Giving input is one thing, but at the end of the day, he's not the head coach and should not expect to be treated as if he is (assuming ANY of that even happened).

And, it’s likely Pete at some point brought up that a commitment to running is the adjustment he prefers to the 2 high safety look as opposed to what we did this year by scheming short routes Wilson can’t or won’t hit. Wilson would have proposed passing our way out if it, presumably.

IMO that’s the same fundamental disagreement that got schotty fired, and I’m not surprised if a deterioration in the relationship is occurring. It doesn’t matter that Pete is correct here (I think he is and I think even the mighty chiefs failed to make the Pete adjustment in the super bowl and got reamed because if it, at least partly).

I also recognize that a team with Wilson is a playoff contender, and that the inverse is also true. So while I think Wilson may not recognize his own shortcomings and so might undervalue the merit of Pete’s approach, I want it to work with him.

I’m hoping Waldron can use PA to open up intermediate throws that Wilson can hit better than short throws. I never felt we did a good job exploiting that intermediate area of the field where the LBs vacate due to run threat, and I’ve always felt the rams do a great job there.

 

[DarkVictory23]

And, it’s likely Pete at some point brought up that a commitment to running is the adjustment he prefers to the 2 high safety look as opposed to what we did this year by scheming short routes Wilson can’t or won’t hit. Wilson would have proposed passing our way out if it, presumably.

IMO that’s the same fundamental disagreement that got schotty fired, and I’m not surprised if a deterioration in the relationship is occurring. It doesn’t matter that Pete is correct here (I think he is and I think even the mighty chiefs failed to make the Pete adjustment in the super bowl and got reamed because if it, at least partly).

I also recognize that a team with Wilson is a playoff contender, and that the inverse is also true. So while I think Wilson may not recognize his own shortcomings and so might undervalue the merit of Pete’s approach, I want it to work with him.

I’m hoping Waldron can use PA to open up intermediate throws that Wilson can hit better than short throws. I never felt we did a good job exploiting that intermediate area of the field where the LBs vacate due to run threat, and I’ve always felt the rams do a great job there.

See, I don't want Russ to leave, either. I just don't think he should be running our offense. I don't think that fixes our problems at all but probably creates new ones. I don't trust Russ's instincts as to what the 'offense needs'.

The problem is... Pete doesn't know how to run an offense, either. So when we're presented with this dilemma of Pete's way or Russ's way, I don't see a way this ends well either way if that's our only options. (I'm not sure it is, but it's discussed as though it is.)


I think so much of our problem is that we don't have a consistent, valid identity on offense and I think this problem stems from BOTH Carroll and Wilson. We have a philosophy (from Pete) of going 'run-heavy', ball-control... but we line-up in legit rushing formations hardly ever. We run from shotgun pretty much all the time. Why are we so shotgun heavy? Is that Pete? I don't think so. I think that's what Russ feels comfortable with.

So what do we do to try and get our runners breathing room in a formation designed to give a passer space? Well, we have the read-option which supposedly will make defenders hesitate on who to hit. Only Russ hasn't consistently made the 'keep' determination in a few seasons now. So there is no hesitation. Instead, our RBs have to start making cuts yards behind the LOS because the guys rushing the QB are in the same spot as where our run plays are starting.

So we run our offense under a Pete Carroll philosophy but design it to make a Russ Wilson throwing situation better and we end up getting the worst of both worlds. We didn't adapt to the loss of Marshawn Lynch and Russ slowing down. We just kind of kept going and then relying on Russ's creativity to bail us out in the 4th quarter and here we are.


We need to create a new offensive identity, one that recognizes both Pete's philosophy and Russ's skills. Hopefully our new OC is up to the task.

 

[John63]

When RW first went public, people were asking why he didn’t air his complaints privately. But many of us assumed he already had, and was basically dismissed by the FO. This pretty much confirms that.

Here’s what happened next, via the story in TheAthletic.com: “Before the Thursday night game against Arizona, Wilson met with his coaches. For some time, Wilson has sought — even pushed — for influence within the organization regarding scheme and personnel. In the meeting, he outlined his own ideas for how to fix the offense. His suggestions were dismissed, multiple sources told The Athletic — another reminder to Wilson that the Seahawks did not see him the same way he saw himself, as a player who had earned greater control over his situation, his future, his legacy. He stormed out of the room.”

And then if that weren’t enough, there was this…. (previously posted in this thread by another .net member)

More: After watching the Bucs-Chiefs Super Bowl in Tampa, Russell Wilson spoke with Pete Carroll to discuss how they’ll fix the o-line. Wilson wanted to know the team’s plan, but it wasn’t relayed to him, at least not to his satisfaction. Wilson then took the message public.

If those reports/quotes above are accurate, I could certainly see how Russ would feel under appreciated and disrespected by his HC. In that scenario, I would want out too.

Pete left Russ no other choice than to go public. Call it click bait if you wish, but there are too many reports from different sources to just dismiss these rumors as click bait. If you really believe that, I think you're in denial. And as someone else said, if they weren’t true, why hasn’t RW come out and said so? Common sense would dictate that these reports are valid, and that there’s a serious divide between Russ and Pete.

I personally don’t think Pete and Russ are going to be able to coexist. This is a clear power struggle between the two, and if the Seahawks want to keep their HOF QB, Pete needs to go now. I didn’t think it was possible given that he had just signed a new 5-year extension, but I don’t see any other resolution. Russ is clearly a hell of a lot more valuable than a “has been” head coach who’s expiration date was up a long time ago.

How I wish Paul Allen was still alive. This would have already been resolved by now. Where the hell is Jody?

Actually, correct me if I'm wrong, but when these reports first began to surface, didn't I read or hear of a quote attributed to Jody stating she would never allow the team to trade Russ? Anyone remember that or did I confuse it with someone else?

Giving input is one thing, but at the end of the day, he's not the head coach and should not expect to be treated as if he is (assuming ANY of that even happened).

And, it’s likely Pete at some point brought up that a commitment to running is the adjustment he prefers to the 2 high safety look as opposed to what we did this year by scheming short routes Wilson can’t or won’t hit. Wilson would have proposed passing our way out if it, presumably.

IMO that’s the same fundamental disagreement that got schotty fired, and I’m not surprised if a deterioration in the relationship is occurring. It doesn’t matter that Pete is correct here (I think he is and I think even the mighty chiefs failed to make the Pete adjustment in the super bowl and got reamed because if it, at least partly).

I also recognize that a team with Wilson is a playoff contender, and that the inverse is also true. So while I think Wilson may not recognize his own shortcomings and so might undervalue the merit of Pete’s approach, I want it to work with him.

I’m hoping Waldron can use PA to open up intermediate throws that Wilson can hit better than short throws. I never felt we did a good job exploiting that intermediate area of the field where the LBs vacate due to run threat, and I’ve always felt the rams do a great job there.

While you at it add in they disagree on the Godzilla. Wow lots of conjecture there with nothing to support it. It is just as likely Wilson said we need to pass short more and PC said no if we are going to pass short I would rather run. Something he has said before.

 

[RCATES]

Good he's washed anyways. It will be nice to have a QB who can stand tall in the pocket and make proper reads. Not a one trick Pony who needs the play to break down to find an open receiver. Lolz will be had for the team that forks over multiple first round picks for this guy.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Wilson is washed?

Not the 97 year old headcoach but Wilson?

This is the assertion you are making?

 

[AgentDib]

Not the 97 year old headcoach but Wilson?

Carroll's age is such a lame target. He's seven months older than Belichick and more active than half of the head coaches in the NFL.

I realize we have a bunch of zoomers flooding Seahawks twitter but if age is a significant part of your argument then it isn't worth reading.

 

[TwistedHusky]

It is a valid target. Hurt feelings aside.

When was the last time Carroll had a new idea?

When did he last change?

Isn't he trying to force 'old' football into the modern game and failing?

What about the reality that when you get older your brain tends to ossify? You find it harder to deal with new information or react to change.

There is a reason few 80 year old coaches exist. Pete is reaching the limits of his usefulness and if the bet is on the HC that might be gone in a few years anyway and the QB, who has close to a decade of football left in him?

Does Pete even have a half a decade of coaching left in him? Good luck.

People are mortal beings. Their ability to remain competitive is finite. And Pete is near the edge of his. That is a valid assertion and not a 'lame target'.

Old coaches lose effectiveness as they age. It already happened with Pete.

 

[John63]

Good he's washed anyways. It will be nice to have a QB who can stand tall in the pocket and make proper reads. Not a one trick Pony who needs the play to break down to find an open receiver. Lolz will be had for the team that forks over multiple first round picks for this guy.

wow

9th in yards,
6th in compt%
2nd in TDs
7th in QB rating


only 3 QBs were top 10 in all those...3 so if he is washed up then that means pretty much every QB is. As, usual the facts show your wrong

 

[AgentDib]

He's 68 not 80 and your need to exaggerate on his age just undermines your argument. The criticisms that are being leveled at Pete are about him coaching like classic Pete Carroll, not about mental unsoundness.

You would dislike 55 year old Pete Carroll exactly as much as you currently dislike 68 year Pete Carroll but you'd use better arguments to express your position.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Except that isn't true.

After the season I was making impassioned arguments that we needed to KEEP Carroll.

Admitting I had problems with him but understood starting over would make no sense.

Pete will not be here long enough for a rebuild. Period.

If Pete was 55? Golden. I grew up on Husky football which was ALL defense and running the ball.

But he is 97 with maybe 5 years of coaching left in him. Maybe. We would tear everything down, lose Wilson, and Pete would bow out after losing for 3 years....leaving this team in a dumpster fire.

He is old. He is less effective. He isn't good at tactics. He isn't adept at picking coordinators. Now, he cannot even field a decent defense - that was supposedly the one thing he is good at.

So he is a great cheerleader but otherwise worthless. He has outlived his usefulness and our most important player wants someone else.

So if we lose that player, then we run a rebuild - Pete aging past the effective point is very relevant. Because if there is no way for him to rebuild...why bet on him?

His age is not the ONLY reason but it is a big reason you pick Wilson over Pete.

 

[Reaneypark]

If he goes he goes. I’m still gonna be a fan of the Hawks.

 

[hawk45]

He's 68 not 80 and your need to exaggerate on his age just undermines your argument. The criticisms that are being leveled at Pete are about him coaching like classic Pete Carroll, not about mental unsoundness.

You would dislike 55 year old Pete Carroll exactly as much as you currently dislike 68 year Pete Carroll but you'd use better arguments to express your position.

Tough to find a crack in Db's logic here IMO

 

[HawkinNY]

The most important line from the story: “(This is what it) comes down to. If the Seahawks view Wilson as an all-time great, they should treat him that way. If they don’t, they should trade him to a team that does, since that team would put together a trade offer that the Seahawks would regard as one they can’t refuse.”

So true. None of this “we’ll play out this season and maybe do something NEXT offseason” crap. No! If there is dysfunction, you have to address it now, one way or another.

I hope they pay Russ top dollar. Then spend the rest of the cap on online. Then just pick guys off the street to play the rest of the spots on the team. Will Russ then blame everyone else for his issues?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Wilson has been widely reported to be frustrated with Pete Carroll, and he’s also reportedly frustrated with Carroll’s sons.

According to a report from TheAthletic.com, Wilson and those around him believe Carroll and his sons answer to no one.

A particularly unusual development occurred when Nate Carroll stepped away from his job because he was frustrated with his role and made his unhappiness known to his players, according to the report.

Pete Carroll himself has indicated that Nate and Brennan were the two coaches on the staff who held him accountable.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... to-no-one/