Serious Question for 49ers Fans

[rideaducati]

Full disclosure, I can't stand Kaepernick's attitude, and I have not liked him since the Senior Bowl, I was actually afraid the Hawks might take him and was so glad they didn't.

But any of you writing him off as done or sucking are missing the point.

His Super Bowl appearance was the perfect portrait of his talents. A talented player on the most talented team in the league that year, he started the game awfully, trying to make accurate throws with some pressure to outside targets. After the lights went out, the Niners put him where he shines, in space running and hitting 20 yard spot throws between the numbers working off play action.

He lost the game the same way he started it, not able to make throws from different arm angles with some pressure.

Kaepernick has worked hard this year to be a better pocket passer, and when he has time and a clean pocket he can look great. His roots as a pitcher show when he gets to step into his throws. His throw over Earl in the NFCCG was a baseball throw from third to first, even on the move he stepped into it an threw a BB to the only place he could.

But when he can't step into throws, or when he tries to take some off, he struggles. His offensive line is a shell of last year, and it has shown in his game. Kaepernick needs a safe pocket feeling to stay calm when he plays.

Seahawk fans saying he sucks have to ignore his overall body of work to do so. Struggling to beat one team does not mean you suck. Kaep vs 30 other teams (The Ravens have his number as well) he is at worst a ball protecting game manager, and when needed, a gazelle. Ask the Packers if he sucks. Show me a defense lacking speed, I will show you an easy win for the Niners.

Gawd, I can't believe you guys made me say nice stuff about Kaepernick.

Sorry man. I know that hurt.

Even on Niner boards I get called a Kap homer. LOL.

I think you are pretty dead on in your post here though. I don't think his SB performance was as bad as you are letting on. The big problem in the SB was the defense and offensive turnovers (and only one of them was his).

Still though, he is a work in progress and he makes mistakes. He'll do something superhuman and then he'll do something that can only make you say WTF. Something about Seattle...they are his Kryptonite. I think nearly half of his CAREER INTs are against Seattle. It's uncanny.

My opinion of him? I think he's got the tools (and I think he's got it between the ears as well even though that's an unpopular opinion of late). I think he biggest issue right now is developing into a true pocket passer and I don't really know if he's ever going to be that. I think movement and play action (something they seem to have decided to steer away from this year) are the way to maximize his potential. If you watch him all the time, you can see where he has improved...getting through his reads much faster, taking some heat off the ball...you can see him improve in those areas...but now its almost like he's lost what made him good. He was DEADLY accurate down the field...but now he's putting air under those throws and they are either off-target or a jump-ball.

I think in the end here they need to let Roman go and that might in turn mean having to let Harbaugh go. Harbaugh rebuilt this entire thing but I don't think the 49ers will ever truly know exactly what they have in Kap until they get him with another OC and possibly HC.

I hope they keep Harbaugh and Kaep for a very long time. Even with a new OC, Kaep will only look at one WR per play.

 

[Marvin49]

Full disclosure, I can't stand Kaepernick's attitude, and I have not liked him since the Senior Bowl, I was actually afraid the Hawks might take him and was so glad they didn't.

But any of you writing him off as done or sucking are missing the point.

His Super Bowl appearance was the perfect portrait of his talents. A talented player on the most talented team in the league that year, he started the game awfully, trying to make accurate throws with some pressure to outside targets. After the lights went out, the Niners put him where he shines, in space running and hitting 20 yard spot throws between the numbers working off play action.

He lost the game the same way he started it, not able to make throws from different arm angles with some pressure.

Kaepernick has worked hard this year to be a better pocket passer, and when he has time and a clean pocket he can look great. His roots as a pitcher show when he gets to step into his throws. His throw over Earl in the NFCCG was a baseball throw from third to first, even on the move he stepped into it an threw a BB to the only place he could.

But when he can't step into throws, or when he tries to take some off, he struggles. His offensive line is a shell of last year, and it has shown in his game. Kaepernick needs a safe pocket feeling to stay calm when he plays.

Seahawk fans saying he sucks have to ignore his overall body of work to do so. Struggling to beat one team does not mean you suck. Kaep vs 30 other teams (The Ravens have his number as well) he is at worst a ball protecting game manager, and when needed, a gazelle. Ask the Packers if he sucks. Show me a defense lacking speed, I will show you an easy win for the Niners.

Gawd, I can't believe you guys made me say nice stuff about Kaepernick.

Sorry man. I know that hurt.

Even on Niner boards I get called a Kap homer. LOL.

I think you are pretty dead on in your post here though. I don't think his SB performance was as bad as you are letting on. The big problem in the SB was the defense and offensive turnovers (and only one of them was his).

Still though, he is a work in progress and he makes mistakes. He'll do something superhuman and then he'll do something that can only make you say WTF. Something about Seattle...they are his Kryptonite. I think nearly half of his CAREER INTs are against Seattle. It's uncanny.

My opinion of him? I think he's got the tools (and I think he's got it between the ears as well even though that's an unpopular opinion of late). I think he biggest issue right now is developing into a true pocket passer and I don't really know if he's ever going to be that. I think movement and play action (something they seem to have decided to steer away from this year) are the way to maximize his potential. If you watch him all the time, you can see where he has improved...getting through his reads much faster, taking some heat off the ball...you can see him improve in those areas...but now its almost like he's lost what made him good. He was DEADLY accurate down the field...but now he's putting air under those throws and they are either off-target or a jump-ball.

I think in the end here they need to let Roman go and that might in turn mean having to let Harbaugh go. Harbaugh rebuilt this entire thing but I don't think the 49ers will ever truly know exactly what they have in Kap until they get him with another OC and possibly HC.

I hope they keep Harbaugh and Kaep for a very long time. Even with a new OC, Kaep will only look at one WR per play.

Oh quit with that BS. That's old information.

He's improved quite a bit in that dept.

He's not a smooth, drop-back, precision passer, but he has worked on his game and he gets through reads far quicker than he used to.

That's not to say though that he doesn't have a lot more work to do.

My big problem is that it seems like they are trying to make him do things he's not comfortable with at the expense of what was working.

Example: I read a stat yesterday that Kap is only using Play action like 20% of the time. By contract RW is leading the league at around 50%. In 2012 Kap was DEADLY with play action because it gave more defined looks.

Now, they are just dropping back and asking him to scan the entire field as if he were Aaron Rodgers. He's not. He probably won't ever be. Neither was Troy Aikman and he won 3 Super Bowls.

I think they need to work on his weaknesses but give him the opportunity to play to his strengths.

 

[Sarlacc83]

Full disclosure, I can't stand Kaepernick's attitude, and I have not liked him since the Senior Bowl, I was actually afraid the Hawks might take him and was so glad they didn't.

But any of you writing him off as done or sucking are missing the point.

His Super Bowl appearance was the perfect portrait of his talents. A talented player on the most talented team in the league that year, he started the game awfully, trying to make accurate throws with some pressure to outside targets. After the lights went out, the Niners put him where he shines, in space running and hitting 20 yard spot throws between the numbers working off play action.

He lost the game the same way he started it, not able to make throws from different arm angles with some pressure.

Kaepernick has worked hard this year to be a better pocket passer, and when he has time and a clean pocket he can look great. His roots as a pitcher show when he gets to step into his throws. His throw over Earl in the NFCCG was a baseball throw from third to first, even on the move he stepped into it an threw a BB to the only place he could.

But when he can't step into throws, or when he tries to take some off, he struggles. His offensive line is a shell of last year, and it has shown in his game. Kaepernick needs a safe pocket feeling to stay calm when he plays.

Seahawk fans saying he sucks have to ignore his overall body of work to do so. Struggling to beat one team does not mean you suck. Kaep vs 30 other teams (The Ravens have his number as well) he is at worst a ball protecting game manager, and when needed, a gazelle. Ask the Packers if he sucks. Show me a defense lacking speed, I will show you an easy win for the Niners.

Gawd, I can't believe you guys made me say nice stuff about Kaepernick.

Sorry man. I know that hurt.

Even on Niner boards I get called a Kap homer. LOL.

I think you are pretty dead on in your post here though. I don't think his SB performance was as bad as you are letting on. The big problem in the SB was the defense and offensive turnovers (and only one of them was his).

Still though, he is a work in progress and he makes mistakes. He'll do something superhuman and then he'll do something that can only make you say WTF. Something about Seattle...they are his Kryptonite. I think nearly half of his CAREER INTs are against Seattle. It's uncanny.

My opinion of him? I think he's got the tools (and I think he's got it between the ears as well even though that's an unpopular opinion of late). I think he biggest issue right now is developing into a true pocket passer and I don't really know if he's ever going to be that. I think movement and play action (something they seem to have decided to steer away from this year) are the way to maximize his potential. If you watch him all the time, you can see where he has improved...getting through his reads much faster, taking some heat off the ball...you can see him improve in those areas...but now its almost like he's lost what made him good. He was DEADLY accurate down the field...but now he's putting air under those throws and they are either off-target or a jump-ball.

I think in the end here they need to let Roman go and that might in turn mean having to let Harbaugh go. Harbaugh rebuilt this entire thing but I don't think the 49ers will ever truly know exactly what they have in Kap until they get him with another OC and possibly HC.

I hope they keep Harbaugh and Kaep for a very long time. Even with a new OC, Kaep will only look at one WR per play.

Oh quit with that BS. That's old information.

He's improved quite a bit in that dept.

He's not a smooth, drop-back, precision passer, but he has worked on his game and he gets through reads far quicker than he used to.

That's not to say though that he doesn't have a lot more work to do.

My big problem is that it seems like they are trying to make him do things he's not comfortable with at the expense of what was working.

Example: I read a stat yesterday that Kap is only using Play action like 20% of the time. By contract RW is leading the league at around 50%. In 2012 Kap was DEADLY with play action because it gave more defined looks.

Now, they are just dropping back and asking him to scan the entire field as if he were Aaron Rodgers. He's not. He probably won't ever be. Neither was Troy Aikman and he won 3 Super Bowls.

I think they need to work on his weaknesses but give him the opportunity to play to his strengths.

Can you actually feel the dreams dissolving into dust in your hands?

 

[rideaducati]

Oh quit with that BS. That's old information.

He's improved quite a bit in that dept.

He's not a smooth, drop-back, precision passer, but he has worked on his game and he gets through reads far quicker than he used to.

That's not to say though that he doesn't have a lot more work to do.

My big problem is that it seems like they are trying to make him do things he's not comfortable with at the expense of what was working.

Example: I read a stat yesterday that Kap is only using Play action like 20% of the time. By contract RW is leading the league at around 50%. In 2012 Kap was DEADLY with play action because it gave more defined looks.

Now, they are just dropping back and asking him to scan the entire field as if he were Aaron Rodgers. He's not. He probably won't ever be. Neither was Troy Aikman and he won 3 Super Bowls.

I think they need to work on his weaknesses but give him the opportunity to play to his strengths.

What BS? Kaep doesn't make it to second read any more than he did in his first game. It was only a matter of time before even average defenses caught up to what he does. He tried last night to look off the safety and then threw blindly to Richard Sherman for his first pick of the night. Dude didn't even look at the WR he was throwing the ball to until he was half way through his wind up.

Kaep was NEVER "deadly" passing the ball and most likely never will be. He isn't accurate with passes unless the WR is WIDE OPEN and he can gun it to him at 90 mph, just like his first game. He throws the ball into double and triple coverage instead of checking down to a WIDE OPEN underneath guy, just like his first game. He gets away with these things against average defenses, but even the average defenses are giving him trouble now because they know how to play him.

Do you really think Kaepernick can make the right decision quick enough to run a read option offense? Is that the offense you have in mind for Kaep? Baltimore showed everyone that he doesn't make the right decision quickly and takes too many hits. He would NEVER last in a read option offense.

Kaep was in the perfect offense and was never very good. Just be thankful that the niner D and running game were so good that they masked his deficiencies long enough to give you a couple good seasons. Kaep is not very good and as long as he plays against NFL defenses, he never will be.

 

[Diezel Dawg]

Oh quit with that BS. That's old information.

He's improved quite a bit in that dept.

He's not a smooth, drop-back, precision passer, but he has worked on his game and he gets through reads far quicker than he used to.

That's not to say though that he doesn't have a lot more work to do.

My big problem is that it seems like they are trying to make him do things he's not comfortable with at the expense of what was working.

Example: I read a stat yesterday that Kap is only using Play action like 20% of the time. By contract RW is leading the league at around 50%. In 2012 Kap was DEADLY with play action because it gave more defined looks.

Now, they are just dropping back and asking him to scan the entire field as if he were Aaron Rodgers. He's not. He probably won't ever be. Neither was Troy Aikman and he won 3 Super Bowls.

I think they need to work on his weaknesses but give him the opportunity to play to his strengths.

What BS? Kaep doesn't make it to second read any more than he did in his first game. It was only a matter of time before even average defenses caught up to what he does. He tried last night to look off the safety and then threw blindly to Richard Sherman for his first pick of the night. Dude didn't even look at the WR he was throwing the ball to until he was half way through his wind up.

Kaep was NEVER "deadly" passing the ball and most likely never will be. He isn't accurate with passes unless the WR is WIDE OPEN and he can gun it to him at 90 mph, just like his first game. He throws the ball into double and triple coverage instead of checking down to a WIDE OPEN underneath guy, just like his first game. He gets away with these things against average defenses, but even the average defenses are giving him trouble now because they know how to play him.

Do you really think Kaepernick can make the right decision quick enough to run a read option offense? Is that the offense you have in mind for Kaep? Baltimore showed everyone that he doesn't make the right decision quickly and takes too many hits. He would NEVER last in a read option offense.

Kaep was in the perfect offense and was never very good. Just be thankful that the niner D and running game were so good that they masked his deficiencies long enough to give you a couple good seasons. Kaep is not very good and as long as he plays against NFL defenses, he never will be.

This analysis is spot on. There is plenty of tape out there that shows he can't go to a second or 3rd read. He makes up his mind Long before the ball is snapped where he is throwing and he doesn't look off those WRs either. He doesn't look comfortable leaving out there and looks like he is throwing the ball in hopes of not throwing an INT against the Hawks. They are in his head for sure

 

[NINEster]

Agree with Marv.

We need to see Kap under a new OC, and post week 1 next season (when his last two opening week games were very good). I don't think he will a superstar or anything, but I do think the right OC and/or HC could make him better.

The weird thing about Kaepernick is that quite honestly it was a huge surprise he even looked NFL ready when he took over Smith's job. That preseason he still looked like a project, and in those 5-8 snaps a game he started taking early in the season until Smith's injury, he didn't look very refined.

Then he had his first true start against Chicago and looked very good. I remember the big deal made about his first TD pass to Crabtree after multiple reads.

So the Hawk fans on here are right.......Kap wasn't as good a QB as most thought he was back then, but at the same time he's not as bad as people claim him to be now.

 

[RichNhansom]

I think Kaep is at his best when he is allowed to ignore traditional QB play and play completely to his strengths. The problem comes in like some have said, that most defenses are adjusting for that, They are spying Kaep and taking away his running ability and making him one dimensional. They are also taking away his deeper throws and forcing him to use touch and timing and those are traits he has never had though he has improved at dumping off to the RB's.

I don't think Roman and Harbaugh are forcing him to stay in the pocket near as much as Niner fans do, I think he doesn't have the running lanes. At this point winning is more important than keeping Keap healthy, If they could use his legs to win games at the risk of injuring him, I don't think there would be a second of hesitation.

I also don't think Kaep will improve with a different OC or coach. I think he is actually somewhat of a coach killer. He will always be who we see. That guy with tons of unrecognized potential that has ownership's and fan bases drooling at what he might become but in the end he loses games and even the best case scenario (like he is in right now) won't change that.

Imagine how bad Keap would be without a dominant O-line, defense, running game and top shelf receiving corp. Take away any of those and suddenly he is below average. Take two of the three away and he sucks. Put him in some systems that have none and you will have exposed him for what he is. A bad QB that is benefiting from a near perfect world situation.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

...........Harbaugh rebuilt this entire thing.............

C'mon Marv, there was a ton of talent in place when he arrived. Full credit to him for getting that talent to win though.

 

[pehawk]

...........Harbaugh rebuilt this entire thing.............

C'mon Marv, there was a ton of talent in place when he arrived. Full credit to him for getting that talent to win though.

Holy hell, Marv49, wow.

 

[homerun1970]

Hit it and pass it Marv.
The team Harbs rebuilt the whole thing had been stacked and underachieving for years. The mediots had been drooling and picking the Niners to win the division for that reason.

 

[Marvin49]

Oh quit with that BS. That's old information.

He's improved quite a bit in that dept.

He's not a smooth, drop-back, precision passer, but he has worked on his game and he gets through reads far quicker than he used to.

That's not to say though that he doesn't have a lot more work to do.

My big problem is that it seems like they are trying to make him do things he's not comfortable with at the expense of what was working.

Example: I read a stat yesterday that Kap is only using Play action like 20% of the time. By contract RW is leading the league at around 50%. In 2012 Kap was DEADLY with play action because it gave more defined looks.

Now, they are just dropping back and asking him to scan the entire field as if he were Aaron Rodgers. He's not. He probably won't ever be. Neither was Troy Aikman and he won 3 Super Bowls.

I think they need to work on his weaknesses but give him the opportunity to play to his strengths.

What BS? Kaep doesn't make it to second read any more than he did in his first game. It was only a matter of time before even average defenses caught up to what he does. He tried last night to look off the safety and then threw blindly to Richard Sherman for his first pick of the night. Dude didn't even look at the WR he was throwing the ball to until he was half way through his wind up.

Kaep was NEVER "deadly" passing the ball and most likely never will be. He isn't accurate with passes unless the WR is WIDE OPEN and he can gun it to him at 90 mph, just like his first game. He throws the ball into double and triple coverage instead of checking down to a WIDE OPEN underneath guy, just like his first game. He gets away with these things against average defenses, but even the average defenses are giving him trouble now because they know how to play him.

Do you really think Kaepernick can make the right decision quick enough to run a read option offense? Is that the offense you have in mind for Kaep? Baltimore showed everyone that he doesn't make the right decision quickly and takes too many hits. He would NEVER last in a read option offense.

Kaep was in the perfect offense and was never very good. Just be thankful that the niner D and running game were so good that they masked his deficiencies long enough to give you a couple good seasons. Kaep is not very good and as long as he plays against NFL defenses, he never will be.

BS.

Look at his numbers throwing the ball more than 20 yards downfield in 2012. He was the BEST IN NTHE NFL.

Defenses learned to counter, but more importantly the 49ers got away from what made him good. The Offense helped him greatly by providing defined looks. How did they do that? Strong running game and a TON of play action.

Seattle is STILL running a ton of play action...BECAUSE IT WORKS.

Kap is not and may never be a precision drop back passer, but that doesn't mean he can't be successful. He will improve getting through progressions, but he's not wired like Rodgers or Manning or Brady. They need to go back to what worked and stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

 

[Marvin49]

I think Kaep is at his best when he is allowed to ignore traditional QB play and play completely to his strengths. The problem comes in like some have said, that most defenses are adjusting for that, They are spying Kaep and taking away his running ability and making him one dimensional. They are also taking away his deeper throws and forcing him to use touch and timing and those are traits he has never had though he has improved at dumping off to the RB's.

I don't think Roman and Harbaugh are forcing him to stay in the pocket near as much as Niner fans do, I think he doesn't have the running lanes. At this point winning is more important than keeping Keap healthy, If they could use his legs to win games at the risk of injuring him, I don't think there would be a second of hesitation.

I also don't think Kaep will improve with a different OC or coach. I think he is actually somewhat of a coach killer. He will always be who we see. That guy with tons of unrecognized potential that has ownership's and fan bases drooling at what he might become but in the end he loses games and even the best case scenario (like he is in right now) won't change that.

Imagine how bad Keap would be without a dominant O-line, defense, running game and top shelf receiving corp. Take away any of those and suddenly he is below average. Take two of the three away and he sucks. Put him in some systems that have none and you will have exposed him for what he is. A bad QB that is benefiting from a near perfect world situation.

Couple thing...I disagree (big surprise) on whether they are keeping him in the pocket. You can really see it sometimes when he seems really uncomfortable when he begins to scramble...almost like he's fighting his instinct to just GO. Now is that a product of coaches telling him no0t to run or himself trying to prove something? No idea. I'm not in the room.

There are a lot more times tho where he escapes pressure and is looking downfield long after he just should have taken off and run.

Its good and bad...good that he keeps his eyes downfield and its resulted in some of the bast plays of the season...but bad because sometimes he's got room and he ignores it to try and throw the ball.

As for the diff OC...you may well be right. I don't know. I think he needs a new OC tho because without one they'll never really know.

 

[Marvin49]

...........Harbaugh rebuilt this entire thing.............

C'mon Marv, there was a ton of talent in place when he arrived. Full credit to him for getting that talent to win though.

LOL.

OK...I overstated...didn't mean it quite that way.

Of course the rebuild started with McGloughan and Mike Nolan. Scot was a very good GM and then passed it to Baalke.

The "rebuild" part in terms of my comment had much more to do with coaching and the attitude in the building. The culture if you will.

Yes...MANY of the players were already there.

 

[lvnginhwktwn]

I think Kaep is at his best when he is allowed to ignore traditional QB play and play completely to his strengths. The problem comes in like some have said, that most defenses are adjusting for that, They are spying Kaep and taking away his running ability and making him one dimensional. They are also taking away his deeper throws and forcing him to use touch and timing and those are traits he has never had though he has improved at dumping off to the RB's.

I don't think Roman and Harbaugh are forcing him to stay in the pocket near as much as Niner fans do, I think he doesn't have the running lanes. At this point winning is more important than keeping Keap healthy, If they could use his legs to win games at the risk of injuring him, I don't think there would be a second of hesitation.

I also don't think Kaep will improve with a different OC or coach. I think he is actually somewhat of a coach killer. He will always be who we see. That guy with tons of unrecognized potential that has ownership's and fan bases drooling at what he might become but in the end he loses games and even the best case scenario (like he is in right now) won't change that.

Imagine how bad Keap would be without a dominant O-line, defense, running game and top shelf receiving corp. Take away any of those and suddenly he is below average. Take two of the three away and he sucks. Put him in some systems that have none and you will have exposed him for what he is. A bad QB that is benefiting from a near perfect world situation.

Couple thing...I disagree (big surprise) on whether they are keeping him in the pocket. You can really see it sometimes when he seems really uncomfortable when he begins to scramble...almost like he's fighting his instinct to just GO. Now is that a product of coaches telling him no0t to run or himself trying to prove something? No idea. I'm not in the room.

There are a lot more times tho where he escapes pressure and is looking downfield long after he just should have taken off and run.

Its good and bad...good that he keeps his eyes downfield and its resulted in some of the bast plays of the season...but bad because sometimes he's got room and he ignores it to try and throw the ball.

As for the diff OC...you may well be right. I don't know. I think he needs a new OC tho because without one they'll never really know.

Marv really, I know I have said this before but you're wasting your time, one game with us and they are thumping their chest again and have them going to the NFC Championship.

 

[Marvin49]

I think Kaep is at his best when he is allowed to ignore traditional QB play and play completely to his strengths. The problem comes in like some have said, that most defenses are adjusting for that, They are spying Kaep and taking away his running ability and making him one dimensional. They are also taking away his deeper throws and forcing him to use touch and timing and those are traits he has never had though he has improved at dumping off to the RB's.

I don't think Roman and Harbaugh are forcing him to stay in the pocket near as much as Niner fans do, I think he doesn't have the running lanes. At this point winning is more important than keeping Keap healthy, If they could use his legs to win games at the risk of injuring him, I don't think there would be a second of hesitation.

I also don't think Kaep will improve with a different OC or coach. I think he is actually somewhat of a coach killer. He will always be who we see. That guy with tons of unrecognized potential that has ownership's and fan bases drooling at what he might become but in the end he loses games and even the best case scenario (like he is in right now) won't change that.

Imagine how bad Keap would be without a dominant O-line, defense, running game and top shelf receiving corp. Take away any of those and suddenly he is below average. Take two of the three away and he sucks. Put him in some systems that have none and you will have exposed him for what he is. A bad QB that is benefiting from a near perfect world situation.

Couple thing...I disagree (big surprise) on whether they are keeping him in the pocket. You can really see it sometimes when he seems really uncomfortable when he begins to scramble...almost like he's fighting his instinct to just GO. Now is that a product of coaches telling him no0t to run or himself trying to prove something? No idea. I'm not in the room.

There are a lot more times tho where he escapes pressure and is looking downfield long after he just should have taken off and run.

Its good and bad...good that he keeps his eyes downfield and its resulted in some of the bast plays of the season...but bad because sometimes he's got room and he ignores it to try and throw the ball.

As for the diff OC...you may well be right. I don't know. I think he needs a new OC tho because without one they'll never really know.

Marv really, I know I have said this before but you're wasting your time, one game with us and they are thumping their chest again and have them going to the NFC Championship.

LOL.

No worries. OP asked a question so I'm answering it honestly. Don't expect them to agree.

 

[rideaducati]

Marv, go back and watch 2012 Kaepernick again. Everything I said is and was true. Kaep only threw the ball to wide open receivers and RARELY made it to his second read. His throws were off target and his receivers bailed him out. The receivers rarely had yards after the catch because Kaep was off target and they were usually standing still when they caught the ball.

The Thanksgiving game we saw Kaepernick throw a lot of 20+ yard passes and ALL OF THEM were off target as usual. On just about every pass play, we saw Kaepernick staring at ONE receiver so the Seahawk DBs were leaving other receivers and breaking off to go where Kaep was looking...it worked because Kaep CAN'T go through progressions. There were A LOT of wide open receivers that Kaep didn't ever look at and A LOT of passes to blanketed receivers.

As for the play action not being utilized, I think teams don't respect the predictable run game anymore. The niners are passing A LOT more than in years past with a QB that isn't accurate and doesn't make good decisions. Teams are playing zone against Kaep, but disguising it as man and the niner coaching staff knows Kaep doesn't read defenses well enough to be able to make a play fake, turn around and make the right decision. He doesn't make the right decision without the play fake, and you expect him to with one? Not gonna happen.

Whatever happens with Kaepernick, you will NEVER see him win as much as he has again because he will NEVER have a defense or running game as good as he has had up to this point.

 

[NINEster]

It's really quite annoying to sit here and take this rape of our QB Kaepernick because:

a) He hasn't won a SB
b) Wilson has

Yet, you'd think just based on those two factors here that Wilson is miles better than Kaepernick. In my honest non homer opinion, I don't see Wilson as that much better than Kaepernick. I see Wilson as better than Kap when you have the elements going for you (because in a tight playoff game against a top defense he will make less mistakes). But when you do NOT.....then clearly to me, one QB is better than the other (CK > RW -- see 2013 NFCC where Lynch had 100+ and Gore/Hunter had 30 yards, 3 turnovers to 1, and still the game came down to the final few plays).

Wilson is smarter than Kaepernick and more risk adverse. Nice. But so is Alex Smith compared to most QBs in this league (even more than Wilson), and nobody is ready to anoint our former QB as a HOF signal caller.

Kaepernik did have the best of everything in 2012, and guess what? He was looked at as a superstar far more than Russell Wilson ever has (even after losing the SB, people had high projections for Kap....Wilson was just a decent QB in people's minds). Even after Wilson won the damn Bowl, people still thought "he's a good QB, but not a game changer." Kap that 2012 post season was a different story. He opened the 2013 and 2014 seasons looking like a dominant QB. When was the last time Wilson "lit up" a team?

So my point is that we've seen the high from both QBs, and Kap has inspired a higher ceiling in the minds of most non 49er/non Seahawk fans.

When s*** has gotten real, Wilson has done more with less through his greater experience as a pro-system QB and better instincts. He makes less mistakes and is ok with checking it down -- two things that we wish Kap was better at. But let's not forget that Wilson has had some s*** games this season and last. Big difference is that Marshawn Lynch has always been there to save the game, and when he has not -- the Seahawks have LOST games.

A lot of us Niner fans are quick to criticize our QB, but Seahawk fans have almost unanimously given Wilson this Joe Montana carte blanche approval for everything he does. Yet being realistic, he's had an amazing support system perhaps even more than Alex Smith had in 2011 -- a stronger running game, and possibly a better defense.

Kap has been up and down, but he was possibly CLOSE to winning the NFC championship game last year for all of his flaws. Fortunately Seahawk fans don't have to play the "what if" game but how would they have felt if SF won that game? Would that awesome strip sack fumble on Wilson's first play of scrimmage been put under a s*** load of scrutiny?

Griffin, Newton, Kaepernick.......their teams have dealt with major issues in running game and defense due to roster turnover and injuries. Seattle has benefitted a ton. Wilson makes things happen. Props.

But this garbage that he's elite is hilarious. He's not there yet. You think Kaepernick is still a limited passer? So is Wilson. He's still a read option/rely on Lynch/make a few backyard style plays type QB. Plus he has an OC that calls screen passes.

I will fight the good fight until CK proves me otherwise (i.e. stinking it up with a new OC and the same talent he has now) . There's so much involved with an offense's success that you can't always pin in it on the QB. Eli Manning has at times looked like the greatest QB ever, and other times like Mark Sanchez in his worst moments. People want to talk sh*** about him but if he was truly as bad as people say he is, the 49ers would have easily went to the Super Bowl in 2011 and maybe beat the Patriots. In that regard, I see a lot of similarities between Eli and Colin.

I've tracked the stats all 2014 -- Kap throws 50 yards more than Wilson a game, and the Seahawks generate about 50 yards more rushing per game.

If the 49ers had the 2006-2009 Frank Gore in the backfield, they'd already have at least one Lombardi under Harbaugh. The dude produced regardless of his circumstances. Just like Lynch is RIGHT NOW.

The saga continues. We'll know more about Wilson vs. Kaepernick after a year or two. Still not over yet.

 

[Uncle Si]

I think Kaep is at his best when he is allowed to ignore traditional QB play and play completely to his strengths. The problem comes in like some have said, that most defenses are adjusting for that, They are spying Kaep and taking away his running ability and making him one dimensional. They are also taking away his deeper throws and forcing him to use touch and timing and those are traits he has never had though he has improved at dumping off to the RB's.

I don't think Roman and Harbaugh are forcing him to stay in the pocket near as much as Niner fans do, I think he doesn't have the running lanes. At this point winning is more important than keeping Keap healthy, If they could use his legs to win games at the risk of injuring him, I don't think there would be a second of hesitation.

I also don't think Kaep will improve with a different OC or coach. I think he is actually somewhat of a coach killer. He will always be who we see. That guy with tons of unrecognized potential that has ownership's and fan bases drooling at what he might become but in the end he loses games and even the best case scenario (like he is in right now) won't change that.

Imagine how bad Keap would be without a dominant O-line, defense, running game and top shelf receiving corp. Take away any of those and suddenly he is below average. Take two of the three away and he sucks. Put him in some systems that have none and you will have exposed him for what he is. A bad QB that is benefiting from a near perfect world situation.

Couple thing...I disagree (big surprise) on whether they are keeping him in the pocket. You can really see it sometimes when he seems really uncomfortable when he begins to scramble...almost like he's fighting his instinct to just GO. Now is that a product of coaches telling him no0t to run or himself trying to prove something? No idea. I'm not in the room.

There are a lot more times tho where he escapes pressure and is looking downfield long after he just should have taken off and run.

Its good and bad...good that he keeps his eyes downfield and its resulted in some of the bast plays of the season...but bad because sometimes he's got room and he ignores it to try and throw the ball.

As for the diff OC...you may well be right. I don't know. I think he needs a new OC tho because without one they'll never really know.

Marv really, I know I have said this before but you're wasting your time, one game with us and they are thumping their chest again and have them going to the NFC Championship.

LOL.

No worries. OP asked a question so I'm answering it honestly. Don't expect them to agree.

you two should get a room

 

[lucky49]

 

[Uncle Si]

and here we go...