We're sitting at about 59 million

[SantaClaraHawk]

I like that guy from Kentucky, Logan Sterberg (sp). The Seahawks draft blog is very high on him but other sources like the following think he's a liability. https://www.sportsmediapass.com/2019/12 ... -stenberg/

However, he plays guard. Our immediate need is center. Are quality options available?

 

[chris98251]

Pete typically Red Shirts his draft picks in one form or another, Metcalf and Wilson being outliers, look at our history, Thomas and Okung were higher round picks on a team with bottom of the barrel talent and the churn was tremendous, we had Sherman, and Kam red shirted then. Milloy coaching up Kam and Sherm learning more how to play CB when he came in until a injury happened.

The O line was musical chairs as was the QB carousel other then Hass, but they were bringing in everyone that had played in the last ten years for a look to see who was back up and the future, Clip Board Jesus won.

 

[knownone]

Pete typically Red Shirts his draft picks in one form or another, Metcalf and Wilson being outliers, look at our history, Thomas and Okung were higher round picks on a team with bottom of the barrel talent and the churn was tremendous, we had Sherman, and Kam red shirted then. Milloy coaching up Kam and Sherm learning more how to play CB when he came in until a injury happened.

The O line was musical chairs as was the QB carousel other then Hass, but they were bringing in everyone that had played in the last ten years for a look to see who was back up and the future, Clip Board Jesus won.

Sherman wasn’t redshirted. He started most of his rookie season because Thurmond and Trufant got hurt.

I think redshirting guys is a recent phenomenon for guys who truly aren’t ready. Because KJ, Bobby, Sherman, Earl, Doug, Ifedi, Carp, Irvin, Reed, Griffin, etc... all started in their rookie season.

I think the shift has more do to with the state of college football than Pete Carroll. The NFL is basically where college football was 10 years ago, and a lot of college football is barely ahead high school from a technique stand point. Most of these kids need two or 3 years to figure things out now.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Chris, you're right in that it's not just a question of draft. It's a question of FA too.

It's clear PC/JS's scheme (and NFLs) is based on certain physical features: Baby Marshawn as your RB, ET as your SS, etc. So clearly, having a center who's often 30 pounds lighter than his mauler is gonna provide a permanent disadvantage however much he schools it in technique. Same with the DL. It's built for guys who can run fast AND maul people. Not OR. So why not focus on the guys that can do both?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Pete typically Red Shirts his draft picks in one form or another, Metcalf and Wilson being outliers, look at our history, Thomas and Okung were higher round picks on a team with bottom of the barrel talent and the churn was tremendous, we had Sherman, and Kam red shirted then. Milloy coaching up Kam and Sherm learning more how to play CB when he came in until a injury happened.

The O line was musical chairs as was the QB carousel other then Hass, but they were bringing in everyone that had played in the last ten years for a look to see who was back up and the future, Clip Board Jesus won.

If by "red shirt" you mean make damn sure if he's putting a rookie in the game, they're prepared and ready to take on their role, and not make rookie mistakes. Then yes.

But if you mean not play them on purpose just because they're rookies. Then no.

My problem is the why part of the rookie's not playing equation. Why wasn't Collier playing? Why didn't Blair take over at safety once he was fully healthy?

Those are your 1st and 2nd round picks, if they're not starting by mid-season and contributing on a weak defense? That's not a redshirt thing, that's a red FLAG thing.

See what I did there.

 

[chris98251]

Ready is the Key, Metcalf is playing because he worked his ass off in the classroom and off season to get familiar with Russell and how to be a Pro.

Remember this year we also had a rash of injuries to our draft class out of the gate and some were still in recovery from college injuries, my take is Pete and John knew they would be on the IR and then depth if needed all season. I expect some break out next season from some of them that we will be surprised by in some instances.

 

[Seymour]

There seems to be some optimism that we have near $60m to spend and will be able to fill quite a few needs. I have a different opinion on that. Say we spend $20M average on Clowney or someone comparable and are left with $40M. We have 22 FA spots to fill in total. That leaves 40M and 21 spots or 1.9M average pay per spot to fill. How much "upgrading" do people think we can do filling holes at $1.9M average per player??
Now look at the condition the defense is in, and Dline and Oline holes there likely will be, along with questions at DB, RB, TE ect, and I think they really need to nail the draft or we have too many needs and not enough $$ to move up and improve over 2019.
Draft is the critical Key in 2020 or we step back IMO.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Chris: "They are just figuring out how to use him, he has been a special team ace, I would have used him more as a SS but that's me.

You can't blame the player when the Coaches are not able to use a certain player to his strengths, that and he has had some pretty good players in front of him."

Checking the YES box. With Kendricks questionable for next year the might have an easier time finding plays for him. They know he can play. The question becomes can he play take keeping him an equitable arrangement? I would like to see him stick and be used as safety depth in addition to the other stuff. Speed is never a bad thing.

Chris and Appy:

Shaquem's main strength is speed. He was No. 2 behind Kendricks this whole year at his spot, but Barton filled in there while Shaquem worked as the edge on the front. Ansah STILL outperformed Shaquem overall for the season even when adjusted for GP. Now the talk is all about trying to find someone better than Ansah, but Shaquem is very rarely brought up.

I wouldn't put Shaquem in a SS position considering his strength is speed and not size. He'd be worse at it than in his present position. I understand he tried to bulk up for some months but that just took his one advantage away. Point is, this is another player who doesn't fit fundamental scheme so people are just saying it's ok because he can play subpackages or ST or whatever.

If we want starters and are picking/FAing as we are in the lower rounds, then let's just pick them to begin with. Not make excuses for their physicality or traits that were on view when we picked them.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

There seems to be some optimism that we have near $60m to spend and will be able to fill quite a few needs. I have a different opinion on that. Say we spend $20M average on Clowney or someone comparable and are left with $40M. We have 22 FA spots to fill in total. That leaves 40M and 21 spots or 1.9M average pay per spot to fill. How much "upgrading" do people think we can do filling holes at $1.9M average per player??
Now look at the condition the defense is in, and Dline and Oline holes there likely will be, along with questions at DB, RB, TE ect, and I think they really need to nail the draft or we have too many needs and not enough $$ to move up and improve over 2019.
Draft is the critical Key in 2020 or we step back IMO.

You also have to factor in anywhere from 10-20M of cap relief if we cut guys like Britt, Ed Dickson, and don't resign Iupati and/or Fluker, and the 2020 cap is set to be around 200M, 12M more than last year.

Of course the draft is key, it's always the key. No team should be filling it's needs through FA, that's very poor roster building.

FA is for signing 2-3 key pieces and depth...........and anywhere from 55-75M is plenty of cap space to do so.

 

[Fade]

@ Seymour

Do yourself a favor and look up all of the highest paid edge rushers in the NFL and see what their cap hits were in year 1 of their new deals.

Clowney is not going to count $20M+ against the cap in year 1. He will come in somewhere between $10-12M. Also it will be offset by cutting/paycuts of overpaid veterans anyway. Cutting Britt & Dickson would cover Clowney's year 1 cap hit, and the team wouldn't lose any cap space for all intents and purposes.

Seattle has $58M in effective cap space, which accounts for filling out the roster. The real key to this off-season is don't sign any Ziggy's, Joeckel's, or Eddy Lacey's. Seattle has had a habit in years past of overpaying for garbage and flushing cap space down the toilet. Getting zero, or straight up net negative returns on their FA investments.

If they can avoid the potholes and navigate free agency properly this off-season, they can get themselves a nice DE or 2 to pair with Clowney. Add a vet O-Lineman + one other nice piece, preferably at TE, which will set them up for a championship run in 2020 and beyond, with plenty of cap space to spare.

 

[jammerhawk]

I agree on the 1st year cap charge point for DE contracts but our cap number has been chewed down a bit by performance escalators (Carson, Griffin ,and Thompson) and OTC.com says it's now $50,775,222 which is significant and enough to get some deals done. There may be other hits to the cap with likely to be earned bonuses, and RFA tenders reducing the effective available cap number to closer to less than $45 million before cap cuts and potential trades, but compared to last year this is cap flexibility.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

@ Seymour

Seattle has $58M in effective cap space, which accounts for filling out the roster. The real key to this off-season is don't sign any Ziggy's, Joeckel's, or Eddy Lacey's. Seattle has had a habit in years past of overpaying for garbage and flushing cap space down the toilet. Getting zero, or straight up net negative returns on their FA investments.

OK then, so the question is what caliber of talent you're gonna get.

I take it as a given we sign Clowney for market. Either we do that and sign a spendy DE (Fowler, Yannick etc.) or more likely PC/JS will go for a value FA like Ansah. One of the most prominent in this group is Solomon Thomas--kinda the Niners Ziggy at this point. He';l probably get snaps in today's game, and even he could be out of range.

 

[Appyhawk]

I think you're closer to right than not, SantaClara. Also don't think our pick order is good enough to get in on quality available at DE in the draft, so FA market is where we'll have to cover that hole, along with CB. I DO think we can get in on some quality interior O Linemen this draft, starting with a good center and/or guard candidate.
My idea is backup for Britt and replacement for Iupati. Also would like to see a young RT project.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

For CB, we gotta be in the position to trade w/Detroit for Slay.

 

[massari]

For CB, we gotta be in the position to trade w/Detroit for Slay.

Seems like after they load up on DL and sign a OL or two, if they still have some cap room to make a significant addition, they might have to choose between a TE like Hooper or a CB like Slay. There's a lot of slot corners available too.

 

[CPHawk]

I said this in another thread.
Sign Clowney
Sign Arik Armstead
Sign Beasley
Cut Willson, sign Olsen

 

[FPD]

This draft is NOT for any DL....There's maybe 2 worth mentioning. This draft has a TON of very good WR's and OL's and guess what we need?

Yup....We need OL in spite of what anyone says. Draft one of these great Centers and at least one Guard, it would be so foolish not to.

DL will be free agents.

I have to agree with you on this one L80. Especially if we plan on keeping Russ upright.

 

[GoGGell]

Okay, I really like to speak in numbers:

We will have pay-cuts, resignings, released savings and those numbers conclude in FA cap space 2020:

Pay-cut savings:

Britt: 11,66 million --> 6,5 million
K.J.: 10 million --> 8 million

==> 7,16 million savings!

Resignings:

Clowney: (4 years 84 million) --> 13 million (cap hit in 2020)
Reed: (1 year proof it deal) --> 10,5 million
Jefferson: (3 years 18 million) --> 4,5 million (cap hit in 2020)
Fant: (4 years 38 million) --> 6,5 million (cap hit in 2020)
Kendricks: --> 3,8 million
Iupati: --> 2,5 million
Woods, Gordon, Hunt, Moore, Hollister, Turner, Geno Smith and Luke Wilson: -->11,3 million

==> 52,2 million in resignings!

Released players:
Dickson: --> 3,25 million
TT: --> 2,14 million (hopefully)
Belore: --> 1,00 million
Hill: --> 0,75 million (hopefully the 2nd)

==> 7,14vmillion in released savings!

Finally we do have the following amount to spend in FA:

59,00 million (actual cap space)
+ 7,16 million (cap hit savings)
-52,20 million (Resignings)
+ 7,14 million (Released savings)

=21,1 million (real cap space)

Finally we can spend 21,1 million + cap space hit in 2020 in FA2020.

If I would be GM I would like to sign the following FA:

1. Sign 2nd Edge Rusher: Ngakoue (5 years 84 million) --> 10 million (cap hit in 2020)
2. Sign a veteran RT: Conklin (4 years 42 million) --> 7,5 million (cap hit in 2020)
3. Sign a rotational player for DL: Vinny Curry --> 2,5 million
4. Sign a TE: Greg Olson --> 3-5 million

==> 23-25 million for FA should be possible with cap increase in 2020.

I know, maybe not all numbers a perfect but I think this is a good board to understand better what we have to do before FA to see what real cap space is a vailable in 2020.

Feel free to give some notes if this kind of scenario would be possible?
:2thumbs:

 

[Tical21]

Bruv, love the work but you need money for about a dozen more players to fil the roster, at least ten million for draft picks and 5-10 for injury replacements.