We're sitting at about 59 million

[Ozzy]

I could see a similar approach to what they did early in the initial run with Avril. I really have no idea what they're going to do. They've left themselves some massive holes at multiple spots so it's going to be interesting.

 

[Tical21]

I think it's going to be very tough to address the Dline in the draft. There are a couple of names that look solid now but I bet by draft time they're all taken earlier than the internet scouts think they will be. Look what happened last year. I think 12 went before we picked. I could be wrong but I think they have to address this in FA or with a trade. But what do I know, I'm a moron so maybe Tical can enlighten us here.

I think it's going to be easier to find good interior line help in the late 1st/early 2nd and/or WR two positions I think they need to upgrade just as badly.

While I agree, I just don't see any way John goes after two high price DE free agents.

When have we ever signed a big name first wave FA? Clowney may be deemed different because he has history here now, but I highly doubt if we sign him we're going to invest that much cap in another big name.

Just not Pete and John's style, they look for bargains in wave two and three with FA's.......or trade.

Sidney, Miller and Gallery were pretty coveted at the time. We really couldn't sign FA's for a long time because we either were in cap trouble or knew we had to take care of our guys first. I think it was more of a cap issue than a philosophy.

There are always a couple good pass rushing specialist types in the 2nd and 3rd round, but they're risky because there are more misses than hits there. Winovich and Ximines would have helped, but they're not starters.

 

[Kinger95]

If clowney walks we'll get pick 97 likely the highest comp pick . Couldn’t we just trade a 4th for a pass rushers? If it’s someone in the 10 mill range you could stay competitive, limit risk(clowney injuries) and save money that u could use elsewhere.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Zero chance you're getting Yannick. But there are multiple cheaper options that look like good fits. Britt wasn't all that good but we also saw what happened when he went down. Center could also be accomplished via the draft with a couple of talented centers available outside of the first. I do think with Pete only having a couple of years left he may approach this off season with a more short sighted approach wanting to go all in and make one last big push for a ring.

Zero chance we're getting Chris Jones either.
Best chances beyond Clowney are with Fowler, Quinn and Beasley.
Agree about C in the draft. From what I've read it's fairly deep. Might get the guy from UW in round 2 if not Ruiz in round 1.

 

[Fade]

@Tical
Where are you getting $40M against the cap in year 1 from???

1st year cap numbers come in way under their APY.

Frank Clark signed that fat contract in KC right? The 3rd highest paid (APY) edge guy in the NFL.

What was his cap hit in 2019? $6.5M.

Khalil Mack the highest paid man at the position, $23.5M APY.

His cap hits in:
2018: $13.8M
2019: $11.9M

This happens because they get nearly all of their year 1 money in a signing bonus, and then it is prorated over the course of the contract, up to 5 years.

So please explain to me how Clowney and Reed combined are going to count $40M against the cap in 2020 for any team, when Clark & Mack accounted for $18.4M combined in 2019? Less than half the number you're proposing.


That 59 number is also going to go up after they, cut Britt, Dickson, and Wright. Or they all agree to massive pay cuts. Either way they will not be playing at their current number as they are all massive overpays in 2020.

So Seattle will push that number to $70M, or close to it at the very least.

In fact if you cut those players and sign Clowney to a massive deal, plus fill out the roster. You're right back to $59M in space. Clowney is a better value than those 3 combined going forward.

Clowney > Britt + Dickson + Wright

Just as an example:
Clowney in year 1 if he signs with Seattle (since they stupidly do shorter contracts, which pushes up the APY in year 1 because they only have 4 years to spread the bonus, instead of 5.)

So let's say the Seahawks are willing to pay Clowney $25M APY over 4 years with a $25M signing bonus. Making him the highest paid edge rusher in the NFL.

This is a ballpark example of how his cap hit would look in 2020 (25M signing bonus divided by 4 + Low base salary of $5M.) That would be $30M in new money in year 1.

Cap Hit in year 1 of a 4yr deal
2020: $11.25M (nearly double Clark's but still very manageable)

Seattle's shorter contract structure for superstars is dumb though, because if you could sign Clowney to a 6 year deal and spread the money out even more it would look like this. ($25M signing bonus divided by 5 + 1 extra year to tack on with a high cap number and lower the middle years out. SOP in the NFL.)

 

[John63]

@Tical
Where are you getting $40M against the cap in year 1 from???

1st year cap numbers come in way under their APY.

Frank Clark signed that fat contract in KC right? The 3rd highest paid (APY) edge guy in the NFL.

What was his cap hit in 2019? $6.5M.

Khalil Mack the highest paid man at the position, $23.5M APY.

His cap hits in:
2018: $13.8M
2019: $11.9M

This happens because they get nearly all of their year 1 money in a signing bonus, and then it is prorated over the course of the contract, up to 5 years.

So please explain to me how Clowney and Reed combined are going to count $40M against the cap in 2020 for any team, when Clark & Mack accounted for $18.4M combined in 2019? Less than half the number you're proposing.


That 59 number is also going to go up after they, cut Britt, Dickson, and Wright. Or they all agree to massive pay cuts. Either way they will not be playing at their current number as they are all massive overpays in 2020.

So Seattle will push that number to $70M, or close to it at the very least.

In fact if you cut those players and sign Clowney to a massive deal, plus fill out the roster. You're right back to $59M in space. Clowney is a better value than those 3 combined going forward.

Clowney > Britt + Dickson + Wright

Just as an example:
Clowney in year 1 if he signs with Seattle (since they stupidly do shorter contracts, which pushes up the APY in year 1 because they only have 4 years to spread the bonus, instead of 5.)

So let's say the Seahawks are willing to pay Clowney $25M APY over 4 years with a $25M signing bonus. Making him the highest paid edge rusher in the NFL.

This is a ballpark example of how his cap hit would look in 2020 (25M signing bonus divided by 4 + Low base salary of $5M.) That would be $30M in new money in year 1.

Cap Hit in year 1 of a 4yr deal
2020: $11.25M (nearly double Clark's but still very manageable)

Seattle's shorter contract structure for superstars is dumb though, because if you could sign Clowney to a 6 year deal and spread the money out even more it would look like this. ($25M signing bonus divided by 5 + 1 extra year to tack on with a high cap number and lower the middle years out. SOP in the NFL.)

LOL Tical smacked down with real facts love it.

 

[QuahHawk]

We can sign Clowney long term at about 20 m per and the cap hit could be close to 10 or 12 next year if we want it to.

 

[IndyHawk]

@Tical
Where are you getting $40M against the cap in year 1 from???

1st year cap numbers come in way under their APY.

Frank Clark signed that fat contract in KC right? The 3rd highest paid (APY) edge guy in the NFL.

What was his cap hit in 2019? $6.5M.

Khalil Mack the highest paid man at the position, $23.5M APY.

His cap hits in:
2018: $13.8M
2019: $11.9M

This happens because they get nearly all of their year 1 money in a signing bonus, and then it is prorated over the course of the contract, up to 5 years.

So please explain to me how Clowney and Reed combined are going to count $40M against the cap in 2020 for any team, when Clark & Mack accounted for $18.4M combined in 2019? Less than half the number you're proposing.


That 59 number is also going to go up after they, cut Britt, Dickson, and Wright. Or they all agree to massive pay cuts. Either way they will not be playing at their current number as they are all massive overpays in 2020.

So Seattle will push that number to $70M, or close to it at the very least.

In fact if you cut those players and sign Clowney to a massive deal, plus fill out the roster. You're right back to $59M in space. Clowney is a better value than those 3 combined going forward.

Clowney > Britt + Dickson + Wright

Just as an example:
Clowney in year 1 if he signs with Seattle (since they stupidly do shorter contracts, which pushes up the APY in year 1 because they only have 4 years to spread the bonus, instead of 5.)

So let's say the Seahawks are willing to pay Clowney $25M APY over 4 years with a $25M signing bonus. Making him the highest paid edge rusher in the NFL.

This is a ballpark example of how his cap hit would look in 2020 (25M signing bonus divided by 4 + Low base salary of $5M.) That would be $30M in new money in year 1.

Cap Hit in year 1 of a 4yr deal
2020: $11.25M (nearly double Clark's but still very manageable)

Seattle's shorter contract structure for superstars is dumb though, because if you could sign Clowney to a 6 year deal and spread the money out even more it would look like this. ($25M signing bonus divided by 5 + 1 extra year to tack on with a high cap number and lower the middle years out. SOP in the NFL.)

I'm no cap expert but I'm learning more about it..However you like to leave out what the numbers
are after the first 2 yearsf an example Clowney contract and RW's current contract.
So please do put out all the imformation on the remaining years not just the first two that
give a false sense of "It's all good"..
Update:I decided to post the cap hits for RW as that is what matters..spotrac.com
2019-$26,286,668.00
2020-$31,000,000.00
2021-$32,000,000.00
2022-$37,000,000.00
2023-$39,000,000.00
2024-UFA

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

We can sign Clowney long term at about 20 m per and the cap hit could be close to 10 or 12 next year if we want it to.

It'll take more than 20 per. Fade might be a bit high at 25 per but he's not far off imo.

 

[BASF]

We can sign Clowney long term at about 20 m per and the cap hit could be close to 10 or 12 next year if we want it to.

It'll take more than 20 per. Fade might be a bit high at 25 per but he's not far off imo.

Agreed and as much talent as Clowney has, he does not deserve that much money. He is a disruptor and opens up opportunities for others, but with JJ Watt taking double teams, Clowney should have been more productive. There is a next gen stat about pass rush win rate, and supposedly Clowney was the third best in 2018, but his numbers were fairly low, and most of his career he has not been that impressive:

Year..........TFL Rank....QB Hits Rank......Sacks Rank
2016................8.....................38......................48
2017................2.....................19......................19
2018..............10.....................16......................25
2019..............96.....................61....................125

Paying him the biggest contract for his position makes no sense at all. Sure, he is only turning 28 and should be in his prime, but he can not be relied upon to get to the QB.

 

[IndyHawk]

I could be swayed on not signing Clowney but the alternatives aren't looking
that great..How much would a Ford cost?It shouldn't be this hard.

 

[sutz]

Would love to sign Clowney to a $18-20 deal with some NLBTE incentives. Long shot, I know, but that would balance out the cap/productivity equation a bit.

 

[kf3339]

We have plenty of cap room to do what we want this offseason. With TE Dickson and possibly Britt cap casualties our cap gets even larger. Personally, I would rather just redo Britt's contract to something more manageable. He will do it as being cut makes his future more unsure with other teams. He is better off working a lower deal with us.

We can easily do backloaded FA deals with larger bonuses and guaranteed money to get who we need. We are in good shape.

 

[chris98251]

The so called experts are listing Indy and Arizona heavy players in the F.A. market, we will wait, those two franchises are going to sign guys to ludicrous contracts, we are not getting the house hold name guys I am pretty sure unless a deal comes along like Clowney later on.

 

[Appyhawk]

The more I read about it us having $59M is a big IF. But there is talk the league will raise the cap. That would help. Even so I'm not convinced it will be enough to get done everything we need to do the way we want it done. That means we'll have to make some hay in the draft with rookie contracts. Problem there is our picks are down in the order unless Schneider can pull some more pick trade magic.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The more I read about it us having $59M is a big IF. But there is talk the league will raise the cap. That would help. Even so I'm not convinced it will be enough to get done everything we need to do the way we want it done. That means we'll have to make some hay in the draft with rookie contracts. Problem there is our picks are down in the order unless Schneider can pull some more pick trade magic.

Absolutely.

The draft is where you have to hit on players. No team is successful trying to build a roster through free agency, it's just too expensive and most high priced FA's rarely live up to their contract.

I think last year's draft was a good start adding key pieces, mainly Metcalf, Blair, Barton and Ugo. Now we have to continue to build, especially on the defense.

Being critical of John and Pete, this defense should already be fixed, but they did not draft well on the defensive side of the ball from 2015-2018...........which is why our defense isn't anywhere near where it needs to be to get back to a SB.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Being critical of John and Pete, this defense should already be fixed, but they did not draft well on the defensive side of the ball from 2015-2018...........which is why our defense isn't anywhere near where it needs to be to get back to a SB.

Yes indeed. Notice you didn't include Collier in your list. Think they saw all DEs go off the board and panicked a bit. Willing to give him an offseason and a healthy TC but if he's persona non grata most of next year it's bust city imo.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Being critical of John and Pete, this defense should already be fixed, but they did not draft well on the defensive side of the ball from 2015-2018...........which is why our defense isn't anywhere near where it needs to be to get back to a SB.

Yes indeed. Notice you didn't include Collier in your list. Think they saw all DEs go off the board and panicked a bit. Willing to give him an offseason and a healthy TC but if he's persona non grata most of next year it's bust city imo.

I read that PC/JS wanted to take Montez Sweat, he then came off, so they went with the best available thinking that since he was an older draftee that maybe he could help in Year One.

No one thought we'd be getting a Bosa in our first rounder...but I bet if you line up the players at that position from that year and adjust for number of games, he ranks near the bottom with three tackles.

Calling it now. This guy's a Solomon Thomas that we're stuck with for dead cap, but probably won't contribute any more than ST did.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Being critical of John and Pete, this defense should already be fixed, but they did not draft well on the defensive side of the ball from 2015-2018...........which is why our defense isn't anywhere near where it needs to be to get back to a SB.

Yes indeed. Notice you didn't include Collier in your list. Think they saw all DEs go off the board and panicked a bit. Willing to give him an offseason and a healthy TC but if he's persona non grata most of next year it's bust city imo.

I can't include Collier when no one knew he was ever on the field.

Halfway through the season when everyone and their grandma knew that Ansah wasn't working out, I would have rather just stuck Collier in the game to at least give him experience for the long term.

Instead we have a 1st round pick that got hurt, missed too much camp and never recovered to do a damn thing all year.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Being critical of John and Pete, this defense should already be fixed, but they did not draft well on the defensive side of the ball from 2015-2018...........which is why our defense isn't anywhere near where it needs to be to get back to a SB.

Yes indeed. Notice you didn't include Collier in your list. Think they saw all DEs go off the board and panicked a bit. Willing to give him an offseason and a healthy TC but if he's persona non grata most of next year it's bust city imo.

I can't include Collier when no one knew he was ever on the field.

Halfway through the season when everyone and their grandma knew that Ansah wasn't working out, I would have rather just stuck Collier in the game to at least give him experience for the long term.

Instead we have a 1st round pick that got hurt, missed too much camp and never recovered to do a damn thing all year.

Collier came back 9/15 Week 2. He was active in 11 regular season games. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... #all_stats

Everyone's saying he just needs more camp. At this point, Collier has the experience that camp tries to prepare guys for. And regardless how he does in preseason, he still will make the roster given his dead cap hit. Same as last year.

They have to make the best of it. Maybe they put him on ST to gain more experience while serving as a No. 3 defensively.