Will Wilson ask to be traded next year?

[SoulfishHawk]

Don't worry Nola, there are some on here that would be happy if they traded him for a 7th rounder. :stirthepot:

 

[johnnyfever]

I think Wilson would be money behind a more creative coach. Pete is a great defensive coach and is good at training various aspects of a defense. Offense under Pete has never been very good, even with great players.

I say Pete deserves to retire on his own terms. He brought us a bowl and I love him for that. Most of my seahawks fandom has been spent watching a losing team, so a few more years won't be so bad. Hopefully he either realizes he needs to hand the offense off to a young creative OC or retires before his contract is up. Wilson has some good years left, but his kind of QB doesnt last into the brady years. Once his agility falters, he will regress.

Only 2 games in though, a lot can happen.

 

[NINEster]

No QB can single handedly carry a team to SB championship, Russ sure couldn't, neither could Brady or Rodgers.

In the past few years, we 12s learned that Russ was very good, pro-bowl good if not all-pro good. We also learned that his unique style requires unconventional game planning, play calling, and roster composition. He is a round peg in a square pegs world, he needs a HC that appreciates his unique gift, and glaring faults. Can a championship team be built around Russ? I would said YES, really would love to see how Russ would play under a OC like Sean McVay, a young Bill Walsh, or a young Mike Shanahan.

I often wonder if Russ would have done well in an early era, when QB had more freedom to call plays, and schemes were less structured. But he couldn't be allowed to QB in those days ....

Wilson's strengths are going outside of the coordinator's strengths.

Having an elite OC like you wish would benefit him but not as much as other QBs.

Bevell might not have been the best OC, but he was definitely a good Wilson OC.

 

[NFSeahawks]

I hope he does get traded. We ain't moving forward with this crappy QBs play. It was M.Lynch and the defense who gave a name to this fraud of a qb!

I don't think Wilson is the problem. It's the system and Pete at the end of the day. They're still treating him like he's a rookie and giving him a tiny fraction of the playbook to work with. A 7 year, Super Bowl winning, almost MVP pro.

Wilson has the talent but what good is it of you're being held back by your own coaches? Put Wilson on the Chargers. Put him on the Bengals, Dolphins, Bucs, or whoever and I guarantee you that not only is he allowed to lead the damn team but he'd thrive and have staffs that will work towards his strengths instead of forcing him into a box he doesn't belong too.

Exactly, its a coaching problem. Pete needs to gtfo honestly, its OBVIOUS he will never change what he does.

 

[Thunderhawk]

Some of you people really embarrass the rest of us.

1) You do not trade a Pro Bowl MVP candidate in his prime. Teams spend decades trying to find a true franchise QB, wasting draft picks and cap space in the process. Our franchise QB put this team on his back last year and almost single-handedly got us above .500 and, if not for a terrible kicker, bad OL, and no running game, would have taken us to the playoffs....again.

Yes he is struggling right now. What weapons does he have? No Doug Baldwin. An aged Marshall who can't get seperation. Lockett still recovering. A rookie TE. A new offense. A seive OL. It will take a while to get in sync. This should surprise nobody.

2) Carroll did not suddenly forget how to coach. He led us to 9-7 last year amidst locker room turmoil, injuries everywhere, and a kicker that cost us at least a couple games. He won two National Championships and went to back-to-back Super Bowls, winning one. Both USC and Seattle were laughing stocks when he took over and he immediately changed the fortunes of both programs. He is empirically one of the greatest coaches in the history of sports. Unless Belichick wants a change of scenery you will find no coach better than Carroll to lead your team. Nobody.

3) If you want to get angry why not direct your ire at the scouting department and Schneider? Bad trades, bad draft picks, bad free agent acquisitions, ill-advised resignings. I know Carroll has to sign off on these decisions but it is in light of the recommendations from Schneider and the scouts. Our roster is a mess. Our cap situation is a mess. Carroll needs to clean house and hire scouts that can actually identify talent.

We are rebuilding. All this angst is coming from people who had unrealistic expectations. This is the natural cycle in the NFL. Stay on top a few seasons and then atrophy. Only the Patriots have been exempt and only because they play in a perennially terrible division. Try to understand this and allow the process to unfold. I still believe in Carroll and Wilson.

 

[Sign37now]

I hope he does get traded. We ain't moving forward with this crappy QBs play. It was M.Lynch and the defense who gave a name to this fraud of a qb!

Could be the dumbest post I've ever seen....

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Some of you people really embarrass the rest of us.

1) You do not trade a Pro Bowl MVP candidate in his prime. Teams spend decades trying to find a true franchise QB, wasting draft picks and cap space in the process. Our franchise QB put this team on his back last year and almost single-handedly got us above .500 and, if not for a terrible kicker, bad OL, and no running game, would have taken us to the playoffs....again.

The question is will Wilson ask to be traded, not do we want him to be traded.

But I'll ask you the question since you seem to be so sure, can we win another SB with Russell making 33M+ with the style of QB he is?

Because he's not Brady or Rodgers where you can have a mediocre to bad defense and have him carry the offense. So if your answer is yes, I'd like to hear your reasons as to how we can win another SB and have almost 20% of our cap spent on Russell.

 

[Seymour]

Wilson can win it all at $33M no doubt, just not under Pete Carroll.

The formula is quite simple. Go 1-0 every week. :snack:

 

[mrt144]

Some of you people really embarrass the rest of us.

1) You do not trade a Pro Bowl MVP candidate in his prime. Teams spend decades trying to find a true franchise QB, wasting draft picks and cap space in the process. Our franchise QB put this team on his back last year and almost single-handedly got us above .500 and, if not for a terrible kicker, bad OL, and no running game, would have taken us to the playoffs....again.

The question is will Wilson ask to be traded, not do we want him to be traded.

But I'll ask you the question since you seem to be so sure, can we win another SB with Russell making 33M+ with the style of QB he is?

Because he's not Brady or Rodgers where you can have a mediocre to bad defense and have him carry the offense. So if your answer is yes, I'd like to hear your reasons as to how we can win another SB and have almost 20% of our cap spent on Russell.

It would be more than 20% if they're serious about it because they should feel compelled to provide him greater support than he's received to maximize his abilities and diminish his weaknesses.

Honestly though, I can see him wanting to seek out a new challenge and a fresh start with a team willing to give him top dollar if the situation is right. He's already done the damn thing once, almost twice as a QB, why not see what it's like to play in the modern NFL?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Some of you people really embarrass the rest of us.

1) You do not trade a Pro Bowl MVP candidate in his prime. Teams spend decades trying to find a true franchise QB, wasting draft picks and cap space in the process. Our franchise QB put this team on his back last year and almost single-handedly got us above .500 and, if not for a terrible kicker, bad OL, and no running game, would have taken us to the playoffs....again.

The question is will Wilson ask to be traded, not do we want him to be traded.

But I'll ask you the question since you seem to be so sure, can we win another SB with Russell making 33M+ with the style of QB he is?

Because he's not Brady or Rodgers where you can have a mediocre to bad defense and have him carry the offense. So if your answer is yes, I'd like to hear your reasons as to how we can win another SB and have almost 20% of our cap spent on Russell.

It would be more than 20% if they're serious about it because they should feel compelled to provide him greater support than he's received to maximize his abilities and diminish his weaknesses.

But this goes against Pete's entire philosophy.

He's a defensive coach that believes in having a physical defensive team first, then a run/ball control offense with a QB that can provide 3-4 explosive plays per game.

So as Seymour said, if there's a scenario or cap formula where we can get back to a SB with giving Russell a massive new contract, it's not with Pete.

 

[mrt144]

Some of you people really embarrass the rest of us.

1) You do not trade a Pro Bowl MVP candidate in his prime. Teams spend decades trying to find a true franchise QB, wasting draft picks and cap space in the process. Our franchise QB put this team on his back last year and almost single-handedly got us above .500 and, if not for a terrible kicker, bad OL, and no running game, would have taken us to the playoffs....again.

The question is will Wilson ask to be traded, not do we want him to be traded.

But I'll ask you the question since you seem to be so sure, can we win another SB with Russell making 33M+ with the style of QB he is?

Because he's not Brady or Rodgers where you can have a mediocre to bad defense and have him carry the offense. So if your answer is yes, I'd like to hear your reasons as to how we can win another SB and have almost 20% of our cap spent on Russell.

It would be more than 20% if they're serious about it because they should feel compelled to provide him greater support than he's received to maximize his abilities and diminish his weaknesses.

But this goes against Pete's entire philosophy.

He's a defensive coach that believes in having a physical defensive team first, then a run/ball control offense with a QB that can provide 3-4 explosive plays per game.

So as Seymour said, if there's a scenario or cap formula where we can get back to a SB with giving Russell a massive new contract, it's not with Pete.

Agreed. I have started joking around with the idea that PC would sign RW for top dollar only to keep him off another team and to hide the fact he's been so misused. Yes, that's the most soapy of soapy ideas ever.

 

[Seymour]

Some of you people really embarrass the rest of us.

1) You do not trade a Pro Bowl MVP candidate in his prime. Teams spend decades trying to find a true franchise QB, wasting draft picks and cap space in the process. Our franchise QB put this team on his back last year and almost single-handedly got us above .500 and, if not for a terrible kicker, bad OL, and no running game, would have taken us to the playoffs....again.

The question is will Wilson ask to be traded, not do we want him to be traded.

But I'll ask you the question since you seem to be so sure, can we win another SB with Russell making 33M+ with the style of QB he is?

Because he's not Brady or Rodgers where you can have a mediocre to bad defense and have him carry the offense. So if your answer is yes, I'd like to hear your reasons as to how we can win another SB and have almost 20% of our cap spent on Russell.

It would be more than 20% if they're serious about it because they should feel compelled to provide him greater support than he's received to maximize his abilities and diminish his weaknesses.

But this goes against Pete's entire philosophy.

He's a defensive coach that believes in having a physical defensive team first, then a run/ball control offense with a QB that can provide 3-4 explosive plays per game.

So as Seymour said, if there's a scenario or cap formula where we can get back to a SB with giving Russell a massive new contract, it's not with Pete.

Beyond Wilson, I don't believe Pete Carroll can win it all under any circumstances other than with a top 3 defense. Wilson isn't the key for Carroll, in fact he is being wasted and abused under Carroll IMO.

 

[scutterhawk]

Russ is the Kaepernick model in many ways. Without exceptional D, without a M. Lynch, with opponents increasingly figuring him out, Russ' weaknesses are exposed. He's OK to get us to 7-9 to 9-7 range unless other pieces fall apart.

:roll: 2nd half of 2015 says different.

Definitely, but we're not in 2015.

Point is, Russell Wilson STILL HAS the skills to do it again, it's the O-Line that has FAILED TO PERFORM, that's on the O-Line Coaching.
"Russ needs to be a Pocket Passer"--> WHAT POCKET?
"Russ needs get the ball out faster" --> TO WHO?
"Russ needs another Marshawn Lynch RB to have any success" --> Marshawn Lynch didn't play in the second half of the 2015 season.
No functioning O-LINE -- disintegrating O-LINE play --> the problem isn't Russell Wilson, it's mostly on our crappy O-LINE.
Hell, maybe Wilson should just learn how to throw the ball away a lot faster, or learn how to tuck & roll better.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Beyond Wilson, I don't believe Pete Carroll can win it all under any circumstances other than with a top 3 defense. Wilson isn't the key for Carroll, in fact he is being wasted and abused under Carroll IMO.

I agree on the first part, but I can't absolve Russell of all the things going wrong with our offense right now, and put it all on Pete.

Of course any good QB needs a line and weapons, but Russell's the one who held onto the ball too long and got stripped sacked on Monday, and Russell's the one who fumbled and spun into a sack in Denver on the last two drives ruining our chances to win.

If he wants Rodgers money, he better play better than he has so far this year.

 

[mrt144]

Russ is the Kaepernick model in many ways. Without exceptional D, without a M. Lynch, with opponents increasingly figuring him out, Russ' weaknesses are exposed. He's OK to get us to 7-9 to 9-7 range unless other pieces fall apart.

:roll: 2nd half of 2015 says different.

Definitely, but we're not in 2015.

Point is, Russell Wilson STILL HAS the skills to do it again, it's the O-Line that has FAILED TO PERFORM, that's on the O-Line Coaching.
"Russ needs to be a Pocket Passer"--> WHAT POCKET?
"Russ needs get the ball out faster" --> TO WHO?
"Russ needs another Marshawn Lynch RB to have any success" --> Marshawn Lynch didn't play in the second half of the 2015 season.
No functioning O-LINE -- disintegrating O-LINE play --> the problem isn't Russell Wilson, it's mostly on our crappy O-LINE.
Hell, maybe Wilson should just learn how to throw the ball away a lot faster, or learn how to tuck & roll better.

I would kill for some mesh concepts. I don't care if RW isn't good at them. I don't care if it creates more turnovers. We are at the limit of what this heavy deep pass offense with no support can provide and it's hard to imagine there being more turnovers, let alone negative plays with different looks. And hell, most teams probably wouldn't expect us to bust that out at this point.

 

[Seymour]

Beyond Wilson, I don't believe Pete Carroll can win it all under any circumstances other than with a top 3 defense. Wilson isn't the key for Carroll, in fact he is being wasted and abused under Carroll IMO.

I agree on the first part, but I can't absolve Russell of all the things going wrong with our offense right now, and put it all on Pete.

Of course any good QB needs a line and weapons, but Russell's the one who held onto the ball too long and got stripped sacked on Monday, and Russell's the one who fumbled and spun into a sack in Denver on the last two drives ruining our chances to win.

If he wants Rodgers money, he better play better than he has so far this year.

I can absolve Russell for a couple of reasons. Yes he NOW is part of the problem, but he holds the ball because it's been overly driven into his head to not take chances. He has the ability to put it into tight windows yet rarely does, and his hesitation now is the result of overthinking this. It took our offense 3 years to start throwing Graham open (to only where he could get it). That is on Pete and Bevell.
Russ needs protection to bounce back and achieve his ability. That will never happen under Pete, I am convinced of that. Solari is a help yes, but he still has Ifedi and Pete playing Pete ball asking for time in routes the line cannot provide.

 

[scutterhawk]

No QB can single handedly carry a team to SB championship, Russ sure couldn't, neither could Brady or Rodgers.

In the past few years, we 12s learned that Russ was very good, pro-bowl good if not all-pro good. We also learned that his unique style requires unconventional game planning, play calling, and roster composition. He is a round peg in a square pegs world, he needs a HC that appreciates his unique gift, and glaring faults. Can a championship team be built around Russ? I would said YES, really would love to see how Russ would play under a OC like Sean McVay, a young Bill Walsh, or a young Mike Shanahan.

I often wonder if Russ would have done well in an early era, when QB had more freedom to call plays, and schemes were less structured. But he couldn't be allowed to QB in those days ....

Wilson's strengths are going outside of the coordinator's strengths.

Having an elite OC like you wish would benefit him but not as much as other QBs.

Bevell might not have been the best OC, but he was definitely a good Wilson OC.

I absolutely agree ^, Bevell's downfall was Tom Cable inflexibility & inability to Coach up the Offensive Line to any consistency.
Bevell was expected to make "Silk Purses Out Of Sow's Ears".

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Beyond Wilson, I don't believe Pete Carroll can win it all under any circumstances other than with a top 3 defense. Wilson isn't the key for Carroll, in fact he is being wasted and abused under Carroll IMO.

I agree on the first part, but I can't absolve Russell of all the things going wrong with our offense right now, and put it all on Pete.

Of course any good QB needs a line and weapons, but Russell's the one who held onto the ball too long and got stripped sacked on Monday, and Russell's the one who fumbled and spun into a sack in Denver on the last two drives ruining our chances to win.

If he wants Rodgers money, he better play better than he has so far this year.

I can absolve Russell for a couple of reasons. Yes he NOW is part of the problem, but he holds the ball because it's been overly driven into his head to not take chances. He has the ability to put it into tight windows yet rarely does, and his hesitation now is the result of overthinking this. It took our offense 3 years to start throwing Graham open (to only where he could get it). That is on Pete and Bevell.
Russ needs protection to bounce back and achieve his ability. That will never happen under Pete, I am convinced of that. Solari is a help yes, but he still has Ifedi and Pete playing Pete ball asking for time in routes the line cannot provide.

But Russell's always held onto the ball too long and scrambled around to take shots downfield.........and so far other than the one play to Lockett for the TD, he hasn't been good.

Is he injured? Cause he looks slow, and his hesitation and indecisiveness is worse.

It's of course all of the above, none of this is in a vacuum and isolated to one thing.

- Russell
- bad line (again)
- poor playcalling
- Pete
- no Doug

But sorry, I can't absolve Russell. We can split hairs on the percentage of blame, but if you're being honest Seymour, he's in there somewhere.

 

[mrt144]

Beyond Wilson, I don't believe Pete Carroll can win it all under any circumstances other than with a top 3 defense. Wilson isn't the key for Carroll, in fact he is being wasted and abused under Carroll IMO.

I agree on the first part, but I can't absolve Russell of all the things going wrong with our offense right now, and put it all on Pete.

Of course any good QB needs a line and weapons, but Russell's the one who held onto the ball too long and got stripped sacked on Monday, and Russell's the one who fumbled and spun into a sack in Denver on the last two drives ruining our chances to win.

If he wants Rodgers money, he better play better than he has so far this year.

It's not all on Pete but it's putting the cart before the horse to withhold support until he proves he doesn't need it. And support could be construed as more than just players around him, it could also be changing aspects of play design and play calls to diminish the subconscious rationale at all for holding the ball too long.

There's a specific situation that bugs me and it almost always involves 3rd and long - RW is looking for a first down and thusly holds and holds and holds and the play goes awry because of it. And it's like, there is no good solution here - throwing an 7 yard dart on 3rd and 15 isn't enough (especially if they're running comebacks and curls that have the lowest YAC number), searching for a first down and taking a sack is just plain bad, just throwing it away is only slightly better...and I'm sure some of you would stroke out if the Holmgren Especial of a draw on 3rd and long was called.

And while we can futz around with "it shouldn't be 3rd and 15 at all!" we're seeing RW do something that makes sense from the perspective of moving the chains, albeit doing it poorly.

Should we concede more on 3rd and long to avoid big 'uh ohs' from our QB who is trying to hit the sticks in the only way he can?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Should we concede more on 3rd and long to avoid big 'uh ohs' from our QB who is trying to hit the sticks in the only way he can?

Well that's the conundrum, you can't remove the part of Russell that makes him great.

Holmgren talked about this on Wednesday. He compared Russell to Favre, he said it's a fine line in telling a QB like Favre or Russell to not hold onto the ball too long and/or scramble because that also results in big plays.

Nor can you coach it out of QB's like Russell, because it's inherently how they play the game.

All you can do is put them in good situations, and THAT'S been our problem. Trying not to put Russell in 2nd and 3rd and longs where the defense pins their ears back and sacks his ass, or worse, turnovers.

I honestly don't know how to fix it, because it used to be just run the damn ball, protect it, and trust your defense. Now we can't do that, cause our defense isn't very good.