Wilson is ok. Nothing special

[Uncle Si]

Our offense doesn't put Wilson in a good position to succeed. He is severely limited by his HC as opposed to his peers. If we had Peyton Manning in his prime it would be the same exact thing.

Same HC that let Bevell gameplan a wide open offense that actually hindered the team for the last 2 years?

I mean come on..

Some criticisms here are very hypocritical of themselves. Even had one poster who desperately wants Schotty to be head coach, insist he deserved all the credit for the offensive success, then suggest that yesterday was PC just "getting in the way again"

 

[Spin Doctor]

Our offense doesn't put Wilson in a good position to succeed. He is severely limited by his HC as opposed to his peers. If we had Peyton Manning in his prime it would be the same exact thing.

Same HC that let Bevell gameplan a wide open offense that actually hindered the team for the last 2 years?

I mean come on..

Some criticisms here are very hypocritical of themselves. Even had one poster who desperately wants Schotty to be head coach, insist he deserved all the credit for the offensive success, then suggest that yesterday was PC just "getting in the way again"

That wasn't a "wide open offense" as you put it. We passed a lot, yes, but if you look at the route concepts we were running it was overly simplistic, and lacking many things you see in modern NFL offenses. Wilson was also handcuffed on his ability to audible, simply put he has never had much clout here. We ran mostly deep and intermediate routes that go towards the sidelines, not much in the way of checkdowns or short passes. The only reason we did this is because we had the inability to run the ball. We had a broken offensive line, and it became clear as day that if we committed to the run that we were going to have a losing year.

This style of offense does not put the QB in a position to succeed. NFL defenses strive to make teams one dimensional. Everything about how we conduct our passing game is one dimensional, we only excel at doing one thing here, the deep pass. Even when we "aired it out" a lot of what we were doing was low percentage deep passes. Pete has a disturbing lack of awareness when it comes to the offense.

 

[semiahmoo]

Our offense doesn't put Wilson in a good position to succeed. He is severely limited by his HC as opposed to his peers. If we had Peyton Manning in his prime it would be the same exact thing.

Same HC that let Bevell gameplan a wide open offense that actually hindered the team for the last 2 years?

I mean come on..

Some criticisms here are very hypocritical of themselves. Even had one poster who desperately wants Schotty to be head coach, insist he deserved all the credit for the offensive success, then suggest that yesterday was PC just "getting in the way again"

That wasn't a "wide open offense" as you put it. We passed a lot, yes, but if you look at the route concepts we were running it was overly simplistic, and lacking many things you see in modern NFL offenses. Wilson was also handcuffed on his ability to audible, simply put he has never had much clout here. We ran mostly deep and intermediate routes that go towards the sidelines, not much in the way of checkdowns or short passes. The only reason we did this is because we had the inability to run the ball. We had a broken offensive line, and it became clear as day that if we committed to the run that we were going to have a losing year.

This style of offense does not put the QB in a position to succeed. NFL defenses strive to make teams one dimensional. Everything about how we conduct our passing game is one dimensional, we only excel at doing one thing here, the deep pass. Even when we "aired it out" a lot of what we were doing was low percentage deep passes. Pete has a disturbing lack of awareness when it comes to the offense.

Wise words.

Carry on...

 

[Uncle Si]

Our offense doesn't put Wilson in a good position to succeed. He is severely limited by his HC as opposed to his peers. If we had Peyton Manning in his prime it would be the same exact thing.

Same HC that let Bevell gameplan a wide open offense that actually hindered the team for the last 2 years?

I mean come on..

Some criticisms here are very hypocritical of themselves. Even had one poster who desperately wants Schotty to be head coach, insist he deserved all the credit for the offensive success, then suggest that yesterday was PC just "getting in the way again"

That wasn't a "wide open offense" as you put it. We passed a lot, yes, but if you look at the route concepts we were running it was overly simplistic, and lacking many things you see in modern NFL offenses. Wilson was also handcuffed on his ability to audible, simply put he has never had much clout here. We ran mostly deep and intermediate routes that go towards the sidelines, not much in the way of checkdowns or short passes. The only reason we did this is because we had the inability to run the ball. We had a broken offensive line, and it became clear as day that if we committed to the run that we were going to have a losing year.

This style of offense does not put the QB in a position to succeed. NFL defenses strive to make teams one dimensional. Everything about how we conduct our passing game is one dimensional, we only excel at doing one thing here, the deep pass. Even when we "aired it out" a lot of what we were doing was low percentage deep passes. Pete has a disturbing lack of awareness when it comes to the offense.

The point is not whether Bevell's offense was well devised. I think we all remember that (in our nightmares). It's that PC allowed Bevell to gameplan an offense that was pass first.

And I'd suggest that the additions of Harvin and Graham were not reflective actions of a team looking to run the ball alot. PC let Bevell impact the offense and that was clearly a change from Lynch, Lynch and RPO.

This is my issue of the criticism PC is taking today on here. Yes, last night needs addressing. But suggesting that PC has never changed and he's handcuffing the team with his stubbornness is contradictory to what we saw but also what many on here were posting all season.

 

[Uncle Si]

Our offense doesn't put Wilson in a good position to succeed. He is severely limited by his HC as opposed to his peers. If we had Peyton Manning in his prime it would be the same exact thing.

Same HC that let Bevell gameplan a wide open offense that actually hindered the team for the last 2 years?

I mean come on..

Some criticisms here are very hypocritical of themselves. Even had one poster who desperately wants Schotty to be head coach, insist he deserved all the credit for the offensive success, then suggest that yesterday was PC just "getting in the way again"

That wasn't a "wide open offense" as you put it. We passed a lot, yes, but if you look at the route concepts we were running it was overly simplistic, and lacking many things you see in modern NFL offenses. Wilson was also handcuffed on his ability to audible, simply put he has never had much clout here. We ran mostly deep and intermediate routes that go towards the sidelines, not much in the way of checkdowns or short passes. The only reason we did this is because we had the inability to run the ball. We had a broken offensive line, and it became clear as day that if we committed to the run that we were going to have a losing year.

This style of offense does not put the QB in a position to succeed. NFL defenses strive to make teams one dimensional. Everything about how we conduct our passing game is one dimensional, we only excel at doing one thing here, the deep pass. Even when we "aired it out" a lot of what we were doing was low percentage deep passes. Pete has a disturbing lack of awareness when it comes to the offense.

Wise words.

Carry on...

Ssshshh.. the adults are talking.

your posts have added nothing to the board but constant contradiction of your own posts from the last few weeks

 

[Spin Doctor]

Our offense doesn't put Wilson in a good position to succeed. He is severely limited by his HC as opposed to his peers. If we had Peyton Manning in his prime it would be the same exact thing.

Same HC that let Bevell gameplan a wide open offense that actually hindered the team for the last 2 years?

I mean come on..

Some criticisms here are very hypocritical of themselves. Even had one poster who desperately wants Schotty to be head coach, insist he deserved all the credit for the offensive success, then suggest that yesterday was PC just "getting in the way again"

That wasn't a "wide open offense" as you put it. We passed a lot, yes, but if you look at the route concepts we were running it was overly simplistic, and lacking many things you see in modern NFL offenses. Wilson was also handcuffed on his ability to audible, simply put he has never had much clout here. We ran mostly deep and intermediate routes that go towards the sidelines, not much in the way of checkdowns or short passes. The only reason we did this is because we had the inability to run the ball. We had a broken offensive line, and it became clear as day that if we committed to the run that we were going to have a losing year.

This style of offense does not put the QB in a position to succeed. NFL defenses strive to make teams one dimensional. Everything about how we conduct our passing game is one dimensional, we only excel at doing one thing here, the deep pass. Even when we "aired it out" a lot of what we were doing was low percentage deep passes. Pete has a disturbing lack of awareness when it comes to the offense.

The point is not whether Bevell's offense was well devised. I think we all remember that (in our nightmares). It's that PC allowed Bevell to gameplan an offense that was pass first.

And I'd suggest that the additions of Harvin and Graham were not reflective actions of a team looking to run the ball alot. PC let Bevell impact the offense and that was clearly a change from Lynch, Lynch and RPO.

This is my issue of the criticism PC is taking today on here. Yes, last night needs addressing. But suggesting that PC has never changed and he's handcuffing the team with his stubbornness is contradictory to what we saw but also what many on here were posting all season.

We had to change up the offense due to necessity, and even so we were running a lot of low percentage plays. We couldn't run even if we wanted to because we refused to address the offensive line. Even when we did air it out we used the same kind of plays that we saw earlier this year. Pete even admitted himself that 70 percent of the playbook is his, and that he had his hand in the offense. It's the same passing scheme that we've had since Bates. My criticism of Pete is the fact that he is running a passing offense that is clearly from the 70s. It is lacking a lot of the bread and butter plays of modern NFL passing attacks. I'm not asking for Pete to change the identity, I'm asking for an offense that is able to execute the basics of modern NFL passing. The passing game and running game go hand in hand. They compliment each other. Pete Carroll's offensive philosophy is a problem.

 

[Uncle Si]

Ok... i dont disagree with what the offense looked like this year, or in years past.

My contention is that many wanted to give Schotty (and at times bevell before him) the credit for the success of the offenses when they worked. But now, when it doesn't, its PC? Seems contradictory.

I feel like the offense could flourish with more balance, better and more innovative play calls, that still dont upset the natural conservative nature of PC's philosophy

 

[Sealake80]

You have to be super young or have a very short memory to be a Seahaks fan and feel #3 is nothing special.

Just the best QB we have ever had. Possibly ever will have. Super Bowl winner. Meh.

This was another awesome season everyone...

Do not enjoy it. Hahahahah

 

[Spin Doctor]

Ok... i dont disagree with what the offense looked like this year, or in years past.

My contention is that many wanted to give Schotty (and at times bevell before him) the credit for the success of the offenses when they worked. But now, when it doesn't, its PC? Seems contradictory.

I feel like the offense could flourish with more balance, better and more innovative play calls, that still dont upset the natural conservative nature of PC's philosophy

I don't mind a 50/50 run pass, there are some really good, innovative and strong offenses that do this, a good example was the 2005 Seahawks. My main contention with Pete is the structure of his passing offenses, and how they end up setting his teams back. I'm saying that it is high time Pete gave Wilson more responsibilities and variety of plays to work from. He is capable of that, and doing this doesn't necessarily detract from his ball control/big play philosophy.

As far as Schotty and Bevell go I've always been a huge detractor. I've seen the limitations of this offense, and how it has held this team back.

 

[WestcoastSteve]

Only thing I don’t get is why the sudden drop off against the blitz this season? He’s always been really good against the blitz before.

What stats are you looking at to come to this conclusion? His passer rating against the blitz was 2nd to Brees in the league. Passer rating isn't end all be all but gives you a good idea.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NFLMatchup/status/1080466304451133440[/tweet]

Tony Gonzalez said before the game Russell sucks against the blitz and now people think he is an expert

 

[Scorpion05]

Wilson doesn't have that great of a record in the playoffs since Lynch left.

He can win against overmatched wildcard teams, but for the most part that is it.

Without his all everything defense, he is a glorified wildcard QB. Essentially he is James Harden of the NFL. Lighting things up in the regular season, doing all these amazing things and making highlights regularly. But when the playoffs start, he cannot do what other elite players do - take over games and beat better teams. Or even rise his play level to another level.

If anything, the results dip.

Though this time was not really his fault. His OC insisted on not even trying to push the ball with Wilson until late 3rd quarter. And we were still trying to run the ball in a grind you down game in the 4th. With our defense.....

Wilson is a tremendous regular season QB, but the only time he has accomplished anything in the postseason is when he had a defense full of HOF players and a borderline HOF RB. Ever since they left, he has done nothing but stumble in the playoff games against playoff caliber teams.

He is special though. In the regular season, he is amazing. Just not in the postseason.

So basically, every QB in NFL history except maybe for Brady? You’re adorable

I have to give you credit, you’re consistent. You move the goal post to whatever suits your Wilson hate, giving back handed compliments when he plays well, and low football knowledge, clearly unfair criticism when we don’t win. Take for example, excluding Wilson’s playoff wins, especially his wild card wins...and instead focusing on the losses. Bravo

 

[John63]

So basically, every QB in NFL history except maybe for Brady? You’re adorable

I have to give you credit, you’re consistent. You move the goal post to whatever suits your Wilson hate, giving back handed compliments when he plays well, and low football knowledge, clearly unfair criticism when we don’t win. Take for example, excluding Wilson’s playoff wins, especially his wild card wins...and instead focusing on the losses. Bravo

Spot on and I showed him he was wrong. I just foed him I don't have time to deal with people like that

 

[TwistedHusky]

Wilson is a great QB.

He has one trait that most QBs do not have. He is great under pressure. There is never a moment that is too big for him. That is golden.

But elite QBs regularly raise the level of their play when needed most - in the playoffs. He hasn't taken that next step.

Here is the caveat - he has always been forced to play with missing pieces and subpar starters because he could adapt and produce despite them. Not consistently, but enough you could expect those issues could be overcome.

The problem is what Wilson is capable of and what he will produce here under Pete in this system with this OC (or similarly picked ones) - those are very different things.

So the Wilson we get for what we pay for vs what Wilson could be? Those seem different.

Wilson is so good at so many difficult things. But because we keep him constrained, he never really masters the in-between stuff. Part of that is just how we call our games though. Part is that rarely has he been given all the pieces most QBs depend on. (This year he had them but the game plan seemed to almost disregard him for 1/2 the game regularly).

He is special, so I disagree there. But I don't think he will ever carry this team through the playoffs because he will never get a chance to. So does it matter if he is great or merely very good - if we never take advantage of that difference or we only do so sporadically?

He might be better than he has shown, he might potentially be elite - but I don't think he will ever be Elite here, given the way they use him and how they structure to the team to try to win with him.

 

[Uncle Si]

Wilson is a great QB.

He has one trait that most QBs do not have. He is great under pressure. There is never a moment that is too big for him. That is golden.

But elite QBs regularly raise the level of their play when needed most - in the playoffs. He hasn't taken that next step.

Here is the caveat - he has always been forced to play with missing pieces and subpar starters because he could adapt and produce despite them. Not consistently, but enough you could expect those issues could be overcome.

The problem is what Wilson is capable of and what he will produce here under Pete in this system with this OC (or similarly picked ones) - those are very different things.

So the Wilson we get for what we pay for vs what Wilson could be? Those seem different.

Wilson is so good at so many difficult things. But because we keep him constrained, he never really masters the in-between stuff. Part of that is just how we call our games though. Part is that rarely has he been given all the pieces most QBs depend on. (This year he had them but the game plan seemed to almost disregard him for 1/2 the game regularly).

He is special, so I disagree there. But I don't think he will ever carry this team through the playoffs because he will never get a chance to. So does it matter if he is great or merely very good - if we never take advantage of that difference or we only do so sporadically?

He might be better than he has shown, he might potentially be elite - but I don't think he will ever be Elite here, given the way they use him and how they structure to the team to try to win with him.

Fair points and i think what the board is saying, albeit in many different ways.

I hold out hope that an innovative OC could bring out RWs best attributes while remaining true to PCs conservative philosophy

 

[chris98251]

Wilson is a great QB.

He has one trait that most QBs do not have. He is great under pressure. There is never a moment that is too big for him. That is golden.

But elite QBs regularly raise the level of their play when needed most - in the playoffs. He hasn't taken that next step.

Here is the caveat - he has always been forced to play with missing pieces and subpar starters because he could adapt and produce despite them. Not consistently, but enough you could expect those issues could be overcome.

The problem is what Wilson is capable of and what he will produce here under Pete in this system with this OC (or similarly picked ones) - those are very different things.

So the Wilson we get for what we pay for vs what Wilson could be? Those seem different.

Wilson is so good at so many difficult things. But because we keep him constrained, he never really masters the in-between stuff. Part of that is just how we call our games though. Part is that rarely has he been given all the pieces most QBs depend on. (This year he had them but the game plan seemed to almost disregard him for 1/2 the game regularly).

He is special, so I disagree there. But I don't think he will ever carry this team through the playoffs because he will never get a chance to. So does it matter if he is great or merely very good - if we never take advantage of that difference or we only do so sporadically?

He might be better than he has shown, he might potentially be elite - but I don't think he will ever be Elite here, given the way they use him and how they structure to the team to try to win with him.

He is already Elite here, people not recognizing that is part of the problem, when asked to be Elite and play out of your mind every game that means your team has a lot of other problems. Look at Marino, Rodgers, Stafford, Brees, Rivers, they can play lights out and put up big numbers but still lose season after season if they don't have a cast of characters to make them versatile as well as decent defense to make what they do on offense matter.

 

[John63]

Wilson is a great QB.

He has one trait that most QBs do not have. He is great under pressure. There is never a moment that is too big for him. That is golden.

But elite QBs regularly raise the level of their play when needed most - in the playoffs. He hasn't taken that next step.

Here is the caveat - he has always been forced to play with missing pieces and subpar starters because he could adapt and produce despite them. Not consistently, but enough you could expect those issues could be overcome.

The problem is what Wilson is capable of and what he will produce here under Pete in this system with this OC (or similarly picked ones) - those are very different things.

So the Wilson we get for what we pay for vs what Wilson could be? Those seem different.

Wilson is so good at so many difficult things. But because we keep him constrained, he never really masters the in-between stuff. Part of that is just how we call our games though. Part is that rarely has he been given all the pieces most QBs depend on. (This year he had them but the game plan seemed to almost disregard him for 1/2 the game regularly).

He is special, so I disagree there. But I don't think he will ever carry this team through the playoffs because he will never get a chance to. So does it matter if he is great or merely very good - if we never take advantage of that difference or we only do so sporadically?

He might be better than he has shown, he might potentially be elite - but I don't think he will ever be Elite here, given the way they use him and how they structure to the team to try to win with him.

He is already Elite here, people not recognizing that is part of the problem, when asked to be Elite and play out of your mind every game that means your team has a lot of other problems. Look at Marino, Rodgers, Stafford, Brees, Rivers, they can play lights out and put up big numbers but still lose season after season if they don't have a cast of characters to make them versatile as well as decent defense to make what they do on offense matter.

I agree to bad he was not allowed to be Elite yesterday. The funny part is his pay and numbers were still really good. PC always says you can twin in the 1-3 qtr but you can in the 4th. Problem is you need to let them and not wait too long. Also, while you can twin in the 1st you can set your self up to win in the 1st something we should try more of.

 

[mistaowen]

Wilson is a great QB.

He has one trait that most QBs do not have. He is great under pressure. There is never a moment that is too big for him. That is golden.

But elite QBs regularly raise the level of their play when needed most - in the playoffs. He hasn't taken that next step.

Here is the caveat - he has always been forced to play with missing pieces and subpar starters because he could adapt and produce despite them. Not consistently, but enough you could expect those issues could be overcome.

The problem is what Wilson is capable of and what he will produce here under Pete in this system with this OC (or similarly picked ones) - those are very different things.

So the Wilson we get for what we pay for vs what Wilson could be? Those seem different.

Wilson is so good at so many difficult things. But because we keep him constrained, he never really masters the in-between stuff. Part of that is just how we call our games though. Part is that rarely has he been given all the pieces most QBs depend on. (This year he had them but the game plan seemed to almost disregard him for 1/2 the game regularly).

He is special, so I disagree there. But I don't think he will ever carry this team through the playoffs because he will never get a chance to. So does it matter if he is great or merely very good - if we never take advantage of that difference or we only do so sporadically?

He might be better than he has shown, he might potentially be elite - but I don't think he will ever be Elite here, given the way they use him and how they structure to the team to try to win with him.

Fair points and i think what the board is saying, albeit in many different ways.

I hold out hope that an innovative OC could bring out RWs best attributes while remaining true to PCs conservative philosophy

Getting a creative young OC who brings college style plays would do wonders for Russ. Shame we will likely get Schotty again next year with a bigger emphasis on running

 

[semiahmoo]

Wilson is a great QB.

He has one trait that most QBs do not have. He is great under pressure. There is never a moment that is too big for him. That is golden.

But elite QBs regularly raise the level of their play when needed most - in the playoffs. He hasn't taken that next step.

Here is the caveat - he has always been forced to play with missing pieces and subpar starters because he could adapt and produce despite them. Not consistently, but enough you could expect those issues could be overcome.

The problem is what Wilson is capable of and what he will produce here under Pete in this system with this OC (or similarly picked ones) - those are very different things.

So the Wilson we get for what we pay for vs what Wilson could be? Those seem different.

Wilson is so good at so many difficult things. But because we keep him constrained, he never really masters the in-between stuff. Part of that is just how we call our games though. Part is that rarely has he been given all the pieces most QBs depend on. (This year he had them but the game plan seemed to almost disregard him for 1/2 the game regularly).

He is special, so I disagree there. But I don't think he will ever carry this team through the playoffs because he will never get a chance to. So does it matter if he is great or merely very good - if we never take advantage of that difference or we only do so sporadically?

He might be better than he has shown, he might potentially be elite - but I don't think he will ever be Elite here, given the way they use him and how they structure to the team to try to win with him.

Yes, I've often said Wilson is a good QB who sometimes plays great.

Elite? That's tougher to define but your version about winning in the playoffs is legit.

Not sure who to blame more for that in recent seasons though - Wilson or Pete or both?

At any rate, this was a fun season overall. We crapped the bed a bit against Dallas but Dallas overall was the better team that night and the better team won fair and square.

Your comments emphasize the question of whether we pay Wilson the $30+ million he might demand.

That's a tough call.

Real tough.

 

[Uncle Si]

Wilson is a great QB.

He has one trait that most QBs do not have. He is great under pressure. There is never a moment that is too big for him. That is golden.

But elite QBs regularly raise the level of their play when needed most - in the playoffs. He hasn't taken that next step.

Here is the caveat - he has always been forced to play with missing pieces and subpar starters because he could adapt and produce despite them. Not consistently, but enough you could expect those issues could be overcome.

The problem is what Wilson is capable of and what he will produce here under Pete in this system with this OC (or similarly picked ones) - those are very different things.

So the Wilson we get for what we pay for vs what Wilson could be? Those seem different.

Wilson is so good at so many difficult things. But because we keep him constrained, he never really masters the in-between stuff. Part of that is just how we call our games though. Part is that rarely has he been given all the pieces most QBs depend on. (This year he had them but the game plan seemed to almost disregard him for 1/2 the game regularly).

He is special, so I disagree there. But I don't think he will ever carry this team through the playoffs because he will never get a chance to. So does it matter if he is great or merely very good - if we never take advantage of that difference or we only do so sporadically?

He might be better than he has shown, he might potentially be elite - but I don't think he will ever be Elite here, given the way they use him and how they structure to the team to try to win with him.

Fair points and i think what the board is saying, albeit in many different ways.

I hold out hope that an innovative OC could bring out RWs best attributes while remaining true to PCs conservative philosophy

Getting a creative young OC who brings college style plays would do wonders for Russ. Shame we will likely get Schotty again next year with a bigger emphasis on running

It is unfortunate. Maybe schotty gets more comfortable and opens up the play calling a bit.

But i think the best case scenario is someone a bit more creative. The run has been established here. Offense now needs more balance

 

[WestcoastSteve]

Most elite quarterbacks are close to 50% in the playoffs - go ahead and look it up

The only QB with an elite winning playoff percentage is Brady at 73%

Flacco 67% (Today doesn't count)
Big Ben 62%
Wilson 61.5%
Rodgers 56%
Brees 54%
Peyton 52%
Farve 54%

It's almost too bad Russell is so durable. When Packers fans have to start Brett Hundley they realize how fortunate they are to have Aaron Rodgers. Our fans ponder if he's worth 30 million which is just silly.

We have the 3rd ranked QB in the NFL and he's only the 11th highest paid QB.