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Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB

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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Thu May 03, 2018 6:23 am
  • What I don't get is it was obvious we were getting older and slower as a team with the older vets so we had to take some guys younger and faster to stay competitive and yet were getting trashed by media yet again , are none of them seeing this will benefit us greatly taking fast durable guys like penny and griffin.
    Hopefully they have to eat as much crow as they did in 2013 and regrade our draft an A again.
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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Thu May 03, 2018 6:35 am
  • hawknation2018 wrote:The comparison I hear most often for Penny is Demarco Murray. Thoughts?



    I think Murray tested slightly better overall than Penny at the combine but on tape they look like pretty similar players for sure.
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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Thu May 03, 2018 6:47 am
  • Meh, let the media talk. I might be in the minority, but I WANT them to doubt the Hawks.
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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Thu May 03, 2018 8:12 am
  • Mad Dog wrote:
    Rat wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Hawks draft a RB: "What a reach" "Horrible pick"
    Pats draft a RB a few spots later: "What a great pick" :?


    Eight Super Bowl appearances over 16 years with five victories gets you a lot of benefit of the doubt.

    The last first round RB the Pats drafted (Laurence Maroney) was a disaster, but I guess that was forever ago now. Seems like most of their better RBs have been guys they poached from other teams (Dillon, Blount, Lewis, A. Smith).


    Belichek is a master at using his talent wisely not necessarily a master at selecting talent. Got lucky with Brady and knew how to use him. His drafts haven't been anymore fantastic than any other teams. Drafts remain a crapshoot by and large. Just got to know how to make hay when you get it right.


    Yeah, I think he's overrated as a GM, but he still makes it work because of the QB and system. They honestly don't have many impact players. Brady, Gronk (starting to fall off due to injury), McCourty, Hightower, and?
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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Thu May 03, 2018 10:37 am
  • AgentDib wrote:People outsmart themselves when it comes to running production and running backs. It's boring to talk about how important the RB is and you can sound much more insightful if you talk about OL scheme, OL personnel, OC play calling and NFL rule changes. As a result I find people undervalue the most obvious piece of the puzzle.

    With our supposedly garbage OL scheme and personnel we were great in the running game when we had Lynch. Even after the rule changes the running game was good for the first three weeks last season and somehow became dumpster tier at the exact same time Carson was injured vs. Green Bay. Sure it was just three full games, but Carson had a 4.2 YPC behind the line that everybody thinks was awful and that was before we picked up Duane Brown. And even after Carson went down, Russ still rushed for nearly 600 yards on the season. It's crazy that people use that stat primarily to talk up Russ instead of realizing how completely ineffective our remaining RBs were in comparison.

    At this time last year the Oakland Raiders were widely regarded to have a top 2 OL. They went on to finish with less total rushing yards than even we had because Lynch was only available for 13 carries per game and they didn't have a good #2 rusher. I know it's boring but the running back is a key element of the running game.


    Lets try the logic with a different player

    Alex Collins was so bad behind our line that he was cut then ends up rushing for an average 4.6 yards per carry with Baltimore

    So maybe it is possible Carson simply was able to overcome our line issues and it really sucks and the issue was not RBs but the line since all the other RBs not named Carson also failed and one proved elsewhere that he is an NFL caliber running back who yes with the Ravens had 4 fumbles and lost 2 but that was not enough to get him cut
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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Thu May 03, 2018 10:55 am
  • mikeak wrote:
    AgentDib wrote:People outsmart themselves when it comes to running production and running backs. It's boring to talk about how important the RB is and you can sound much more insightful if you talk about OL scheme, OL personnel, OC play calling and NFL rule changes. As a result I find people undervalue the most obvious piece of the puzzle.

    With our supposedly garbage OL scheme and personnel we were great in the running game when we had Lynch. Even after the rule changes the running game was good for the first three weeks last season and somehow became dumpster tier at the exact same time Carson was injured vs. Green Bay. Sure it was just three full games, but Carson had a 4.2 YPC behind the line that everybody thinks was awful and that was before we picked up Duane Brown. And even after Carson went down, Russ still rushed for nearly 600 yards on the season. It's crazy that people use that stat primarily to talk up Russ instead of realizing how completely ineffective our remaining RBs were in comparison.

    At this time last year the Oakland Raiders were widely regarded to have a top 2 OL. They went on to finish with less total rushing yards than even we had because Lynch was only available for 13 carries per game and they didn't have a good #2 rusher. I know it's boring but the running back is a key element of the running game.


    Lets try the logic with a different player

    Alex Collins was so bad behind our line that he was cut then ends up rushing for an average 4.6 yards per carry with Baltimore

    So maybe it is possible Carson simply was able to overcome our line issues and it really sucks and the issue was not RBs but the line since all the other RBs not named Carson also failed and one proved elsewhere that he is an NFL caliber running back who yes with the Ravens had 4 fumbles and lost 2 but that was not enough to get him cut


    There were other factors besides that. Collins fumbled here. He was part of a 7-way RB competition that squeezed out every role. He dropped an easy swing pass for a TD.
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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Thu May 03, 2018 11:16 am
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    mikeak wrote:
    AgentDib wrote:People outsmart themselves when it comes to running production and running backs. It's boring to talk about how important the RB is and you can sound much more insightful if you talk about OL scheme, OL personnel, OC play calling and NFL rule changes. As a result I find people undervalue the most obvious piece of the puzzle.

    With our supposedly garbage OL scheme and personnel we were great in the running game when we had Lynch. Even after the rule changes the running game was good for the first three weeks last season and somehow became dumpster tier at the exact same time Carson was injured vs. Green Bay. Sure it was just three full games, but Carson had a 4.2 YPC behind the line that everybody thinks was awful and that was before we picked up Duane Brown. And even after Carson went down, Russ still rushed for nearly 600 yards on the season. It's crazy that people use that stat primarily to talk up Russ instead of realizing how completely ineffective our remaining RBs were in comparison.

    At this time last year the Oakland Raiders were widely regarded to have a top 2 OL. They went on to finish with less total rushing yards than even we had because Lynch was only available for 13 carries per game and they didn't have a good #2 rusher. I know it's boring but the running back is a key element of the running game.


    Lets try the logic with a different player

    Alex Collins was so bad behind our line that he was cut then ends up rushing for an average 4.6 yards per carry with Baltimore

    So maybe it is possible Carson simply was able to overcome our line issues and it really sucks and the issue was not RBs but the line since all the other RBs not named Carson also failed and one proved elsewhere that he is an NFL caliber running back who yes with the Ravens had 4 fumbles and lost 2 but that was not enough to get him cut


    There were other factors besides that. Collins fumbled here. He was part of a 7-way RB competition that squeezed out every role. He dropped an easy swing pass for a TD.


    Speaking of other factors....what were those factors for keeping Lacy exactly?
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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Thu May 03, 2018 12:11 pm
  • Again, I dont hate the pick because we needed a RB, but I wanted Michel due to how good he looked when I watched him. I admit though that I didnt see Penny play at all and even though he was the NCAA leading rusher, he was an unknown to me except for name alone. When I heard Penny's name called in the draft, I was like 'Eh,,,,,,,Ok'. He's going to be a prove it to me player.
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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Thu May 03, 2018 12:55 pm
  • Can't wait to see him prove people wrong.
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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Thu May 03, 2018 1:28 pm
  • I think an overlooked aspect of the pick is that we might just wanted someone reliable. A player that could play 16 games. Every back we have drafted or played these last few years has not been able to do the basic and that is last a season. I think if we can get that, it'll be a win for us. He will learn and seems to be a great character with all the endorsements he's getting.

    Sony Michel and the other guys have all some sort of injury and I believe that might have played some part in the selection.
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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Fri May 04, 2018 8:25 am
  • :sarcasm_on:
    Draft grades are just plain stupid. The media experts say stuff like:

    -You didn't pick players we thought you should have. so you are stupid because we know so much more than y'all.
    -You didn't pick players at positions we thought you should have, after all, we know your team better than you do.
    -You didn't follow our expert rankings, which are set in stone. Going off script gets much, much lower final grades.
    -We, the media experts, know your team needs better than you. After all, all your needs can be found on the internet.
    -We, the media experts, know every detail about 1000+ players, you don't know squat. Our evaluations are all A++++.
    -We, the media experts, are just so much better at evaluating talent because we read all about players online, right from our laptops. We cut and paste with the best of them AND, we are always 100% correct on EVERY player selected.
    -Y'all should consult with us before EVERY draft pick, if you don't want to screw up your drafts. Even if you draft some great players, we'll talk about the worst ones instead, you'll never win unless you do exactly what we media experts say. Note, if you use 2 first round picks on a player you'll get a higher grade from us than if you reach for a player beyond where we have them ranked. That's fair isn't it?

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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Fri May 04, 2018 4:14 pm
  • original poster wrote:
    hawknation2018 wrote:The comparison I hear most often for Penny is Demarco Murray. Thoughts?



    I think Murray tested slightly better overall than Penny at the combine but on tape they look like pretty similar players for sure.

    The author of this video (whose voice and cadence really have little business in a video but otherwise I have no problem with) voiced exactly the same thoughts I had about YAC watching the game videos on Penny.

    Anyone quoting the YAC stat in connection with the Hawks OL is falsely conveying the impression that he has demonstrated an ability to handle consistent penetration, and I didn't see that at all. The runs I saw where he dealt with penetration, he reversed field and used his speed and shiftiness, and that works in college but not behind last year's OL and not in the NFL by and large. He's not a jump-cutter, nor a beast like Marshawn. He's a very excellent shifter and speedster with vision who sets up his blocks well.

    That said, he can still be very effective for the Hawks but ONLY if the OL is improved under Solari to near average, which I think is likely! I think he can be very successful
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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Sat May 05, 2018 3:55 pm
  • You got a STEAL in Rashaad Penny. Not only is he not a reach at #27 overall in the 1st round he is a STEAL. Your GM said he would have picked him at #18 overall. He is even a STEAL there. You got a top 10 - 15 player in this draft. People just lack familiarity with him. They have not seen him play because he played at San Diego State. They see guys play at USC, Georgia, LSU and others and assume those are great RB's. Because they have name recognition with them and have familiarity with them. They have not seen Rashaad Penny play or even heard of him in some cases. Thus they assume (WRONGLY) that he is a bad pick. In fact he is a great pick.

    Rashaad Penny is 5' 11" 220 lbs. with 4.46 speed. That's moving for 220 + lbs which is his weight range. He rushed for 2,248 yards (led FBS by a huge margin), 23 TD's. He returned 8 kicks for TD's. 7 kickoff returns for TD's (tied for an FBS record). The very first time he ever was put back to return a punt he returned it for a TD. Can you imagine that? I was at the game. His first time ever touching a punt return he was in the endzone. He was so good at receiving the ball that they thought at one time of putting him at WR at San Diego State. He has very natural soft hands and will catch the ball and will make run after catch yards big time. He is an all world return man. He is in the special category with that.

    People just look at these so called "draft expert sites" and think they know something. First of all any ARMCHAIR guy can build a website and be a "draft expert" on the internet. And they do exactly that. There are hundreds of those all over the internet. A lot of them are uninformed, misinformed, bad at talent evaluation and in some cases blatantly wrong. But what a lot of them have is they simply watch the NATIONALLY TELEVISED BIG NAME programs. Well guess what San Diego State doesn't get many nationally televised games. They lack familiarity with him. They don't understand what Penny is and have never seen him play. It's the same thing on ESPN. They gravitate toward the national programs they have seen. Some on NFL Network really liked the pick BTW. I did see that.

    There was so much misinformation about Penny all over the internet in the months leading up to the Draft. I knew it was blatantly wrong B.S. I mean they had guys who are like 200 lbs. who run 4.55 and had 1,300 yards rushing ranked ahead of Penny. How does that even make sense? It's just mind boggling. Penny runs 4.46 at 20 lbs. heavier and put up 2,248 yards rushing along with 23 TD's. In addition to 8 return TD's. 7 of which were kickoff returns (tied for an FBS record). He would have 15 of those if they actually kicked to him. They didn't even kickoff to him. They were terrified to try. They avoided him which makes those numbers even more impressive. BTW he is very fluid for 220 lbs. He can stop, start, turn, cut and accelerate and explode out of hole easily. His movement skills are that of somebody much lighter. But he has bulk and strength with it. Which is even better.

    IMO you got a future Pro Bowler and one of the best players in this Draft. You should be super happy. He will be a big star if the following happen.

    1) He stays healthy.
    2) You put a good O Line in front of him. I understand you had some O Line issues last year.

    :D
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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Sun May 06, 2018 7:09 am
  • SanDiego49er wrote:[b][/b]

    1) He stays healthy.
    2) You put a good O Line in front of him. I understand you had some O Line issues last year.

    :D


    Some O-line issues? :34853_doh: the understatement of the millennium.
    I’m excited about Penny and thanks for your insight. Looking forward to the I guess he wasn’t a reach threads and it looks like we got a steal comments.
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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Sun May 06, 2018 7:11 am
  • To appease my morbid curiosity... after seeing Penny don the #20 jersey I decided to compare his stats to another famous #20 from his junior and senior seasons.

    Rashaad Penny as compared to Barry Sanders.

    Penny's Junior season:

    136 attempts for 1018yds averaging 7.5ypc for 11TDs

    Sanders Junior Season:

    105 attempts for 603yds averaging 5.7ypc for 9TDs

    Penny's Senior Season:

    289 attempts for 2248yds averaging 7.8ypc for 23TDs

    Sanders Senior Season:

    344 attempts for 2628yds averaging 7.6ypc for an EPIC 37 TDs


    What am I getting at? Well, two RBs that were playing second fiddle to other RBs (albeit another hall of famer ahead of Sanders in Thurmon Thomas.) They put up fairly similar numbers and are on a number of different NCAA records together. They both logged 5 straight 200yd games as did Marcus Allen.

    Total TDS for both:

    Penny: 52
    Sanders:55


    Now I'm not saying they run the same, or even faced the same competition. I'm merely drawing an intriguing comparison between their statistics based on the number on the jersey. Here's to an interesting season. GO HAWKS.
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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Sun May 06, 2018 5:26 pm
  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:To appease my morbid curiosity... after seeing Penny don the #20 jersey I decided to compare his stats to another famous #20 from his junior and senior seasons.

    Rashaad Penny as compared to Barry Sanders.

    Penny's Junior season:

    136 attempts for 1018yds averaging 7.5ypc for 11TDs

    Sanders Junior Season:

    105 attempts for 603yds averaging 5.7ypc for 9TDs

    Penny's Senior Season:

    289 attempts for 2248yds averaging 7.8ypc for 23TDs

    Sanders Senior Season:

    344 attempts for 2628yds averaging 7.6ypc for an EPIC 37 TDs


    What am I getting at? Well, two RBs that were playing second fiddle to other RBs (albeit another hall of famer ahead of Sanders in Thurmon Thomas.) They put up fairly similar numbers and are on a number of different NCAA records together. They both logged 5 straight 200yd games as did Marcus Allen.

    Total TDS for both:

    Penny: 52
    Sanders:55


    Now I'm not saying they run the same, or even faced the same competition. I'm merely drawing an intriguing comparison between their statistics based on the number on the jersey. Here's to an interesting season. GO HAWKS.


    Yes Penny split time with Donnel Pumphrey when he was a Junior and Pumphrey was a Senior. Pumphrey was a good college back. But he is more limited as a pro back because of his size. He doesn't have the size, speed, bulk, strength of Penny. He also is not as good of a receiver out of the backfield as Penny. He is nowhere near the return man that Penny is.

    Coach Rocky Long defers to the Seniors. I'm not calling it right or wrong or good or bad. It's just what he does at San Diego State. Penny is the far the superior player. Certainly at the next level. But even at that level. Penny would have put up much bigger #'s as a Junior if he was the primary option. He put up over 1,000 yards being a secondary option. Which is pretty incredible.

    The numbers and stats you posted are interesting. Yes like you said they really are totally different type and style of players.

    But I think Penny will be very successful for you. He is far better than so many here believe. Like I said he needs to stay healthy and you need to put an O Line in front of him. Nobody can account for those variables. But if those are good I expect big things from him. He's a special athlete and special player.
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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Sun May 06, 2018 8:22 pm
  • This is who Penny reminds me of. Clean, one cut running. Aggressive but not brutal on the body. Foster ironically did get hurt a lot.
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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Sun May 06, 2018 10:01 pm
  • Rashaad Penny is not a dance around guy just to dance around. He is a no nonsense runner. 1 cut or a few. But the least amount to get straight ahead and the shortest distance between him and the goal line. But there are some differences here. Penny never had any major injuries. Not in College at least. I'm not sure if Foster did in College or not.

    But you are talking about a huge difference in SPEED.

    Rashaad Penny 5'11" 220 lbs. 4.46 speed.

    Adrian Foster 6'1" 226 lbs. 4.68 speed.

    Those are combine #'s and they are not in the same category at all. Obviously that is the case. That is a WORLD of difference in speed. It's not in the same category at all. So in that sense I don't think they are comparable. Foster did not put up anywhere near the #'s Penny did in College BTW.
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Re: Pick #27 Rashaad Penny RB
Mon May 07, 2018 12:06 pm
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