Chiefs and 49ers

[NINEster]

I'm ok with the idea that the Levi's fans are not up to Candlestick standards (yet).

If it really is that much more expensive to be a season ticket holder, then it makes sense. Attracts a less hardcore fan....a new "unproven" fan, on average.

Giants' fans tell me the home field advantage was stronger in the Giants Stadium days much more than Metlife.

Look at when the stadiums were opened and it makes sense:

Metlife - 2010
Levis - 2014

Just when Giants (even Jets) along with 49ers were good teams. Seahawk stadium/qwest opened in 2002, right? Not quite the same.

Cowboys stadium is another weak home field, now that I think of it.

That's my theory.

The good news is when the weather cools, and some primetime games come, the crowd should get better. If the crowd can't get it up for the Thanksgiving game, there'd be no hope left. :mrgreen:

 

[hawknation2014]

Start of the second half...

LOL

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Start of the second half...

Niner Nation indeed.

You guys are funny. Fans were crowding the overhangs or hanging in the clubs because it was 90 + degrees on the field. Hottest home game in a decade.

Crowd was there, just not in their seats.

Maybe if your team's stadium was in Frisco instead of Santa Clara it wouldn't have been so hot. :229031_shrug:

 

[SouthSoundHawk]

The good news is when the weather cools, and some primetime games come, the crowd should get better. If the crowd can't get it up for the Thanksgiving game, there'd be no hope left. :mrgreen:

LOL at this ever having been said.

Sad fan base is sad.

 

[Marvin49]

Start of the second half...

Niner Nation indeed.

You guys are funny. Fans were crowding the overhangs or hanging in the clubs because it was 90 + degrees on the field. Hottest home game in a decade.

Crowd was there, just not in their seats.

Maybe if your team's stadium was in Frisco instead of Santa Clara it wouldn't have been so hot. :229031_shrug:

True...

...but in December and January it's not going to be cold...which is why SB 50 will likely NOT be the only SB played at Levi's.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Smith had his chance for revenge, and crapped the bed.

The Chiefs are starting to see why the Niners dumped Smith like he had the ebola virus, dude can't make the throws when it counts.

 

[Marvin49]

Smith had his chance for revenge, and crapped the bed.

The Chiefs are starting to see why the Niners dumped Smith like he had the ebola virus, dude can't make the throws when it counts.

I always liked Alex.

Dude was frustrating as all hell, but I always liked him. I did though also always understand his limitations. He was never going to be a dynamic passer. He was never going to wow you.

Good guy tho.

 

[Popeyejones]

Smith is in the category of QBs that people don't know how to talk about. As for him being a bad or even below average passer, last year:

SMITH: 3,313 yards, 23 TDs, 7 Ints, 4 fumbles.

WILSON: 3,357 yads, 26 TDs, 9 Ints, 8 fumbles.

Every single person in the world would of course pick Wilson over Smith because he's still developing and this is as good as Smith is going to get, but Smith's reputation is dramatically diminished by:

1) How much of a mess the 9ers were (8 coordinators in 8 years) for most of his career.

2) People not having a way to talk about merely above average quarterbacks (the bizarre world in which the Smiths, and Cutlers, and Romos, and Elis and Flaccos of the world are all "bad" rather than just not among the best). What makes Smith different from these guys is his contract doesn't gut the rest of his team.

Heck, I'll say something that will probably really piss people here off:

Given the style of play engaged in by the Hawks, 49ers and Chiefs, I think Smith at 9 million per year is a MUCH better decision than Kaepernick at 14 million per or Wilson at an (expected) 20-22 million per.

(Worth saying that I'm also NOT one of those tragic 49ers turned Alex Smith fans. He's whatever. This is just cool and calculated cap management musings.)

 

[Sgt. Largent]

2) People not having a way to talk about merely above average quarterbacks (the bizarre world in which the Smiths, and Cutlers, and Romos, and Elis of the world are all "bad" rather than just not among the best).

But the knock on Smith is more than just the stats you listed, it's his inability to show up in big games, or as we saw yesterday his inability to make the big throws when his team needs him most.

We can talk about why? But when you're a moderately athletic QB with a moderate arm, and moderate legs........then that's what you get at the end of games when you need Smith to be clutch. Average.

This isn't 1975, or even 2000 when a QB like Dilfer can do just enough to win. It's an offensive driven league now where you NEED a QB that can make plays to win consistently. Smith just isn't that guy.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Smith is in the category of QBs that people don't know how to talk about. As for him being a bad or even below average passer, last year:

SMITH: 3,313 yards, 23 TDs, 7 Ints, 4 fumbles.

WILSON: 3,357 yads, 26 TDs, 9 Ints, 8 fumbles.

Every single person in the world would of course pick Wilson over Smith because he's still developing and this is as good as Smith is going to get, but Smith's reputation is dramatically diminished by:

1) How much of a mess the 9ers were (8 coordinators in 8 years) for most of his career.

2) People not having a way to talk about merely above average quarterbacks (the bizarre world in which the Smiths, and Cutlers, and Romos, and Elis of the world are all "bad" rather than just not among the best).

The reason why Alex Smith isn't considered much more then average is because he doesn't have the arm or the mentality to make the throws outside the hashes. He's fine on seam and crossing routes but anything else is a gamble. But when the game is on the line you have to have a quarterback that can make the high risk throws.

 

[Laloosh]

Smith is in the category of QBs that people don't know how to talk about. As for him being a bad or even below average passer, last year:

SMITH: 3,313 yards, 23 TDs, 7 Ints, 4 fumbles.

KAEP: 3,197 yards, 21 TDs, 8 Ints, 3 fumbles.

WILSON: 3,357 yads, 26 TDs, 9 Ints, 8 fumbles.

Every single person in the world would of course pick Wilson over Smith because he's still developing and this is as good as Smith is going to get, but Smith's reputation is dramatically diminished by:

1) How much of a mess the 9ers were (8 coordinators in 8 years) for most of his career.

2) People not having a way to talk about merely above average quarterbacks (the bizarre world in which the Smiths, and Cutlers, and Romos, and Elis and Flaccos of the world are all "bad" rather than just not among the best). What makes Smith different from these guys is his contract doesn't gut the rest of his team.

Heck, I'll say something that will probably really piss people here off:

Given the style of play engaged in by the Hawks, 49ers and Chiefs, I think Smith at 9 million per year is a MUCH better decision than Kaepernick at 14 million per or Wilson at an (expected) 20-22 million per.

(Worth saying that I'm also NOT one of those tragic 49ers turned Alex Smith fans. He's whatever. This is just cool and calculated cap management musings.)

Added Kaep's stats since you included him in your comment about which QB you'd take given expected cap hits.

While I see your point, I disagree because both of the younger QBs give you something that Alex does not... the ability to move the ball down the field quickly and a running threat that opens things up for your running game as well as your passing game.

Even if you use those savings to get yourself an elite pass rusher for example, that would be amazing against most teams in the league but when you play other elite defenses, Alex just doesn't seem capable of imposing his will on the other tream.

Just my two cents...

 

[RolandDeschain]

The question I have for 49ers fans is why were there so many empty seats THROUGHOUT the game on Sunday? I took several screenshots that I can post when I get home, and I'm not talking about ones taken just after halftime, or anything. I was truly surprised, and not just because I'm a division foe swillin' the haterade.

 

[Marvin49]

The question I have for 49ers fans is why were there so many empty seats THROUGHOUT the game on Sunday? I took several screenshots that I can post when I get home, and I'm not talking about ones taken just after halftime, or anything. I was truly surprised, and not just because I'm a division foe swillin' the haterade.

Heat.

Hottest Homegame in a decade. Peeps crowed under the overhang and in the clubs.

No excuse really. Bay Area fans not used to sweltering heat. I'm talking to them on our forums and some of them seem to think Heat was invented in Santa Clara. LOL. They are still used to Candlestick. Candlestick was the coldest place in the Bay Area most of the time.

Gee...I wonder how hot it is in Miami or North Carolina this time of year.

It doesn't help that its a solid 20 degrees warmer than normal this time of year...but still.

 

[Laloosh]

The question I have for 49ers fans is why were there so many empty seats THROUGHOUT the game on Sunday? I took several screenshots that I can post when I get home, and I'm not talking about ones taken just after halftime, or anything. I was truly surprised, and not just because I'm a division foe swillin' the haterade.

Apparently they have air conditioned clubs and it was really sunny in California that day.

 

[Popeyejones]

Added Kaep's stats since you included him in your comment about which QB you'd take given expected cap hits.

Oh, right you are. Sorry, that was meant to be implied.

My argument was basically that in terms of talent/promise/ability I think they're clearly ranked:

1) Wilson
2) Kap
3) Smith

That said, personally, in terms of what their respective teams are looking for from their QBs and their cap hits, If I'm a GM and I'm trying to win in the next four years I'd rank them:

1)Smith
2) Kap
3) Wilson

These are all teams that rely on stout defenses and dominating in the run game. Wilson is easily the best and most promising of the three, but if I have a team built on running and defense I'd rather pay Smith 9 million than Kap 14 million or Wilson 20-22 million (assuming that's what happens, who knows).

While I see your point, I disagree because both of the younger QBs give you something that Alex does not... the ability to move the ball down the field quickly and a running threat that opens things up for your running game as well as your passing game.

Yeah, I agree Smith is the least talented of the three. My thinking is that if you need to move the ball down the field quickly, how about a WR that can break tackles and is one of the best of the league in punt returns (Golden Tate -- 4 million) and an amazing running back that keeps you from being in that position in the first place (Lynch, 6-7 million). The Hawks have already had to move on from Tate, and will likely have to move on from Lynch to afford Wilson's contract. So, Wilson is obviously the best QB of the three, but with the cap you also have to factor in 1) what style you play in and 2) what you have to give up to keep who you're going to keep.

Put another way, the 9ers are better than the Chiefs and the Hawks are better than the Chiefs, but they're both going to have to give up a lot of pieces in areas that they excel to keep their QBs, while the Chiefs won't.

 

[Marvin49]

The question I have for 49ers fans is why were there so many empty seats THROUGHOUT the game on Sunday? I took several screenshots that I can post when I get home, and I'm not talking about ones taken just after halftime, or anything. I was truly surprised, and not just because I'm a division foe swillin' the haterade.

Apparently they have air conditioned clubs and it was really sunny in California that day.

OMG...89 Degrees. UNBEARABLE!! LOL.

Peeps in the Bay Area have NO IDEA what heat really is.

http://www.mercurynews.com/49ers/ci_266 ... is-stadium

Then again...maybe its good that I did a little research a few YEARS ago to figure out where the sun was gonna be and got my seats on the home sideline that's in the shade ALL DAY starting at 11:30 AM.

A lot of these peeps just jump in their car and go to the game and have no idea what where they are going.

 

[RolandDeschain]

The question I have for 49ers fans is why were there so many empty seats THROUGHOUT the game on Sunday? I took several screenshots that I can post when I get home, and I'm not talking about ones taken just after halftime, or anything. I was truly surprised, and not just because I'm a division foe swillin' the haterade.

Heat.

Hottest Homegame in a decade. Peeps crowed under the overhang and in the clubs.

No excuse really. Bay Area fans not used to sweltering heat. I'm talking to them on our forums and some of them seem to think Heat was invented in Santa Clara. LOL. They are still used to Candlestick. Candlestick was the coldest place in the Bay Area most of the time.

Gee...I wonder how hot it is in Miami or North Carolina this time of year.

It doesn't help that its a solid 20 degrees warmer than normal this time of year...but still.

Marvin, I swear to God I'm not trying to troll here, but...

That is absolutely pathetic. (You KNOW that's truly how I feel bias aside if you saw all my posting about the heat crap regarding our loss in San Diego.)

Now, here to troll for real - another 49ers brawl! Nobody stabbed from what I can tell, and it's against another 49er fan, so...All's well: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152727189386462

 

[Popeyejones]

But the knock on Smith is more than just the stats you listed, it's his inability to show up in big games, or as we saw yesterday his inability to make the big throws when his team needs him most.

Um, in Smith's three post-season games he has 873 passing yards, 127 rushing yards, 9 TDs and 0 Ints. He averages over 300 yards and 3 TDs a game without any INTs (better than Wilson or Kap by a long shot).

I don't think this means anything ("cluth" is really overrated and almost always based on small sample size), but that he doesn't show up in big games is an unsupportable position, IMO.

 

[Marvin49]

The question I have for 49ers fans is why were there so many empty seats THROUGHOUT the game on Sunday? I took several screenshots that I can post when I get home, and I'm not talking about ones taken just after halftime, or anything. I was truly surprised, and not just because I'm a division foe swillin' the haterade.

Heat.

Hottest Homegame in a decade. Peeps crowed under the overhang and in the clubs.

No excuse really. Bay Area fans not used to sweltering heat. I'm talking to them on our forums and some of them seem to think Heat was invented in Santa Clara. LOL. They are still used to Candlestick. Candlestick was the coldest place in the Bay Area most of the time.

Gee...I wonder how hot it is in Miami or North Carolina this time of year.

It doesn't help that its a solid 20 degrees warmer than normal this time of year...but still.

Marvin, I swear to God I'm not trying to troll here, but...

That is absolutely pathetic. (You KNOW that's truly how I feel bias aside if you saw all my posting about the heat crap regarding our loss in San Diego.)

Now, here to troll for real - another 49ers brawl! Nobody stabbed from what I can tell, and it's against another 49er fan, so...All's well: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152727189386462

No...you're not trolling. I AGREE with you. Read the complaints in that link above in my response to Laloosh.

The fight. Disgusting. Plain and simple. The worst part is the sickening thud as the poor guys head hit the floor. Good news is that thug will never be at a Niner game again.

 

[Laloosh]

Added Kaep's stats since you included him in your comment about which QB you'd take given expected cap hits.

Oh, right you are. Sorry, that was meant to be implied.

My argument was basically that in terms of talent/promise/ability I think they're clearly ranked:

1) Wilson
2) Kap
3) Smith

That said, personally, in terms of what their respective teams are looking for from their QBs and their cap hits, If I'm a GM and I'm trying to win in the next four years I'd rank them:

1)Smith
2) Kap
3) Wilson

These are all teams that rely on stout defenses and dominating in the run game. Wilson is easily the best and most promising of the three, but if I have a team built on running and defense I'd rather pay Smith 9 million than Kap 14 million or Wilson 20-22 million (assuming that's what happens, who knows).

While I see your point, I disagree because both of the younger QBs give you something that Alex does not... the ability to move the ball down the field quickly and a running threat that opens things up for your running game as well as your passing game.

Yeah, I agree Smith is the least talented of the three. My thinking is that if you need to move the ball down the field quickly, how about a WR that can break tackles and is one of the best of the league in punt returns (Golden Tate -- 4 million) and an amazing running back that keeps you from being in that position in the first place (Lynch, 6-7 million). The Hawks have already had to move on from Tate, and will likely have to move on from Lynch to afford Wilson's contract. So, Wilson is obviously the best QB of the three, but with the cap you also have to factor in 1) what style you play in and 2) what you have to give up to keep who you're going to keep.

Put another way, the 9ers are better than the Chiefs and the Hawks are better than the Chiefs, but they're both going to have to give up a lot of pieces in areas that they excel to keep their QBs, while the Chiefs won't.

Yep, I get it but Tate isn't going to move the ball quickly if the QB overthrows him on the first play of what could be a game winning drive. Smith is a different QB when you ask him to throw further than 10 yards.

Let's use SEA week 3 as our test. If it were Alex Smith and Golden in that game to start from the 20 in overtime, do you believe SEA wins? I don't.

[edit] and don't you dare mention Russell's overthrow in SD week 2