Geno Smith...

[Titus Pullo]

I think Maelstrom's takes are reasonable. Not really sure why he's being attacked repeatedly for having some faith that Geno isn't a complete failure. I'm convinced people aren't actually reading what he's saying.

Being a longtime lurker, reading this forum sometimes feels like reading a political discussion where one side refuses to read or attempt to understand what opposing view points are saying. Maelstrom has been clear from the beginning that he's saying Geno is not playing AS BAD as people say he is, and is actually playing pretty decent and has actual points and referenced situations that reflect that, and yet he's being replied to like he's saying that Geno is going to save the season.

Drops have been prevalent, penalties in the last game were horrible. Fewer drops and penalties would have significantly changed the stat line.

That said, I don't want to see Geno starting, would much rather roll with Lock. Just saying Maelstrom isn't wrong. Geno hasn't been as bad as it looks.

Everyone here, with a few exceptions, is rooting for the same team. Why do people have such visceral my side/your side takes?

Again....Which of the four games last year or the partial preseason games this year, show that Geno has turned the corner?

 

[CallMeADawg]

Again....Which of the four games last year or the partial preseason games this year, show that Geno has turned the corner?

Trying to argue with me about a point I did not make, isn't going to happen. Find someone else to bother.

 

[CallMeADawg]

It's a PFF thing?
FAQ
PFF Power Rankings: the relative quality of each team as defined by Point Spread Team Ratings

Interesting, still doesn't mean anything to me. Though it was 6 times higher for Russ and they ranked him 6 times higher, so that seemed to be decisive in their conclusion.

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

Again....Which of the four games last year or the partial preseason games this year, show that Geno has turned the corner?

Perhaps there's never been a corner to turn.

 

[toffee]

Interesting, still doesn't mean anything to me. Though it was 6 times higher for Russ and they ranked him 6 times higher, so that seemed to be decisive in their conclusion.

PFF's data on Russ's passer rating under pressure of 85.1 vs Geno's 26.5, it was very telling why Russ's a super star and Geno's not, poised under pressure can't be trained or taught.

On the other hand, when both were not under pressure, Geno's 131 was higher than Russ' 111, it confirmed what some on dot net said that Russ often wasted give-me layups, looking for his highlight film hero ball.

 

[keasley45]

Being a longtime lurker, reading this forum sometimes feels like reading a political discussion where one side refuses to read or attempt to understand what opposing view points are saying. Maelstrom has been clear from the beginning that he's saying Geno is not playing AS BAD as people say he is, and is actually playing pretty decent and has actual points and referenced situations that reflect that, and yet he's being replied to like he's saying that Geno is going to save the season.

Drops have been prevalent, penalties in the last game were horrible. Fewer drops and penalties would have significantly changed the stat line.

That said, I don't want to see Geno starting, would much rather roll with Lock. Just saying Maelstrom isn't wrong. Geno hasn't been as bad as it looks.

Everyone here, with a few exceptions, is rooting for the same team. Why do people have such visceral my side/your side takes?

A voice of reason. Welcome to the thunderdome.

When the group on one side of an issue is willing to entertain facts and adjust perception of a situation based on real-time, current data and the other is entirely inflexible in their belief and sees the future as being set... that's when two people or opposing groups throw up there hands and say 'there's nothing here to discuss'.

And that's the nonsensical dance that plays out in these 'discussion' forums.

The issue here is that for some, no matter what good Pete, or Geno do, it won't move the needle at all. Any mistake or misstep is amplified. Any success, couched as luck.

If Geno sets the franchise record for consecutive completed passes, it's dismissed because it was done against the Jags. Yet the fact that, for example, that the Jags D didn't rank a whole lot better than several of the pass defenses we played during Russ's hot streak early in his 'cooking' year, or that our starting QBs for the last, what X + years have had an opportunity to set that record against equally bad teams when they've played them and didnt... those realities are lost on them.

Or... when the argument is presented that Geno is playing well, it's countered with accusations that folks are blindly defending him and that hes actually playing horribly. So stats come out showing that Geno is in fact, playing as well as any QB in the preseason (even without TDs). And of course, the standard response from the other side is that it's just the preseason.

There's no tangible discussion around his skill or performance, unless you count mischaracterizing a PA trip of Lockett against the Rams that resulted in an interception of a perfectly thrown pass as Geno's error. Or shouldering Geno with the fault for getting sacked for the 6th time against the Steelers and losing the ball in a comeback bid ( same folks would blame an error like that on the OLine had it happened to Russ). Or...

For some it doesn't matter what's presented for DISCUSSION in this forum. What trumps discourse is a flat statement of (and myopic view of) ones opinion. And when that's the beginning and end of a person's willingness to engage in conversation on a subject... there's no conversation, no discussion, and no discussion board.

Having an opinion is fine. And not caring to move from it is fine. But if that's the choice a person is going to make, then it's idiotic to debate someone entertaining new data and facts and then accuse the other person or group of being inflexible, or 'blind' , because they choose not to be stuck in a view of a player that was set in a context wholly different than current reality.

Keep your opinion. State it. But it's not possible to DISCUSS a position that is inflexible and biased by personal feelings.

I didnt think much of Geno when he was with the Jets because I didn't see what the hoolplah was around him. His performance didn't change that.

I also wanst crazy about him when we signed him.

But the fact is, his passer rating, td rating, and completion percentage, coming off the bench, cold after not starting in years was head and shoulder above anything he posted prior.

And his performance this year in the preseason, without drops, has been good enough to be tops in the league. Neither his stats last year or so far in the preseason guarantee he'll be good enough to carry the team to the playoffs. But they also don't point to the player he was before he came here. So what he will be is unknown, but is promising in that he just might be able to do enough to make us competitive.

And that thought is somehow threatening / frustrating / aggevating to some.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

But the fact is, his passer rating, td rating, and completion percentage, coming off the bench, cold after not starting in years was head and shoulder above anything he posted prior.

And his performance this year in the preseason, without drops, has been good enough to be tops in the league. Neither his stats last year or so far in the preseason guarantee he'll be good enough to carry the team to the playoffs. But they also don't point to the player he was before he came here. So what he will be is unknown, but is promising in that he just might be able to do enough to make us competitive.

And that thought is somehow threatening / frustrating / aggevating to some.

Geno's a game manager. That's it.

So get ready to watch 25 check downs a game and frustrating series ending on a holding call or fumble because he's not good enough to overcome any adversity.

Pete knows that, but he trusts Geno to not turn the ball over or make critical mistakes. So yeah, we'll be competitive with Geno against other bad to mediocre teams, but get our asses handed to us against the top half of the league.

Personally I'd rather see what Lock has, because his upside is still unknown. Unlike Geno who we already know what he can and can't do.

But again, that's not Pete. Pete's safe, Pete thinks he can grind out games. But he can't, because this defense won't be good enough to keep the score low enough.

So that's the good news, we'll both get to see our QB's. Ain't no way Geno's going to make it 17 games without getting hurt or benched.

 

[toffee]

A voice of reason. Welcome to the thunderdome.

When the group on one side of an issue is willing to entertain facts and adjust perception of a situation based on real-time, current data and the other is entirely inflexible in their belief and sees the future as being set... that's when two people or opposing groups throw up there hands and say 'there's nothing here to discuss'.

And that's the nonsensical dance that plays out in these 'discussion' forums.

The issue here is that for some, no matter what good Pete, or Geno do, it won't move the needle at all. Any mistake or misstep is amplified. Any success, couched as luck.

If Geno sets the franchise record for consecutive completed passes, it's dismissed because it was done against the Jags. Yet the fact that, for example, that the Jags D didn't rank a whole lot better than several of the pass defenses we played during Russ's hot streak early in his 'cooking' year, or that our starting QBs for the last, what X + years have had an opportunity to set that record against equally bad teams when they've played them and didnt... those realities are lost on them.

Or... when the argument is presented that Geno is playing well, it's countered with accusations that folks are blindly defending him and that hes actually playing horribly. So stats come out showing that Geno is in fact, playing as well as any QB in the preseason (even without TDs). And of course, the standard response from the other side is that it's just the preseason.

There's no tangible discussion around his skill or performance, unless you count mischaracterizing a PA trip of Lockett against the Rams that resulted in an interception of a perfectly thrown pass as Geno's error. Or shouldering Geno with the fault for getting sacked for the 6th time against the Steelers and losing the ball in a comeback bid ( same folks would blame an error like that on the OLine had it happened to Russ). Or...

For some it doesn't matter what's presented for DISCUSSION in this forum. What trumps discourse is a flat statement of (and myopic view of) ones opinion. And when that's the beginning and end of a person's willingness to engage in conversation on a subject... there's no conversation, no discussion, and no discussion board.

Having an opinion is fine. And not caring to move from it is fine. But if that's the choice a person is going to make, then it's idiotic to debate someone entertaining new data and facts and then accuse the other person or group of being inflexible, or 'blind' , because they choose not to be stuck in a view of a player that was set in a context wholly different than current reality.

Keep your opinion. State it. But it's not possible to DISCUSS a position that is inflexible and biased by personal feelings.

I didnt think much of Geno when he was with the Jets because I didn't see what the hoolplah was around him. His performance didn't change that.

I also wanst crazy about him when we signed him.

But the fact is, his passer rating, td rating, and completion percentage, coming off the bench, cold after not starting in years was head and shoulder above anything he posted prior.

And his performance this year in the preseason, without drops, has been good enough to be tops in the league. Neither his stats last year or so far in the preseason guarantee he'll be good enough to carry the team to the playoffs. But they also don't point to the player he was before he came here. So what he will be is unknown, but is promising in that he just might be able to do enough to make us competitive.

And that thought is somehow threatening / frustrating / aggevating to some.

Geno's past two games, were very efficient in the eyes of PFF:
Steelers - pass grade - 84.6 (elite)
Bears - pass grade - 83.3 (very good)

Heck he is one of the highest rated QB in all the preseason games. Lock? His pass grade was 61.1, vs Steelers.

To my untrained eyes, Geno didn't no anything to cost the games, no turnovers, no miscues, etc. He couldn't carry the team to a win, but he sure didn't cost them either. That's really all one could ask from a game manager.

 

[Scout]

My take is that the offense is going to shift back to a RB dominated offense. So from my view on which QB starts is academic and it will hinge on what the defense looks like to forge the new identity of the team. We have seen glimpses of what Homer and Dallas can do this pre season. If Penny picks up where he left off last season and Walker shows some splashes as a rookie that is very encouraging.

 

[keasley45]

My take is that the offense is going to shift back to a RB dominated offense. So from my view on which QB starts is academic and it will hinge on what the defense looks like to forge the new identity of the team. We have seen glimpses of what Homer and Dallas can do this pre season. If Penny picks up where he left off last season and Walker shows some splashes as a rookie that is very encouraging.

This is true, if it turns out we struggled to move the ball through the air, and we might, the offense will rely more heavily on the run game.

But Pete just stated again during one of his latest pressers that the philosophy on offense is not to go run, run, pass, punt. The degree to which we pass and how aggressive the pass game will be is dependent on the skill of the qb.

 

[Scout]

This is true, if it turns out we struggled to move the ball through the air, and we might, the offense will rely more heavily on the run game.

But Pete just stated again during one of his latest pressers that the philosophy on offense is not to go run, run, pass, punt. The degree to which we pass and how aggressive the pass game will be is dependent on the skill of the qb.

I honestly don't see a struggle moving the ball through the air this year IMO. Lock is going to be able to roll out and hit Fant or Metcalf no problem with designed play action Or, Geno is going to hit screens, go routes and skinny posts.

I think some people are seriously underestimating how good Lockett and MetCalf can be once the entire field is opened up. We saw glimpses of that last year.

 

[keasley45]

I honestly don't see a struggle moving the ball through the air this year IMO. Lock is going to be able to roll out and hit Fant or Metcalf no problem with designed play action Or, Geno is going to hit screens, go routes and skinny posts.

I think some people are seriously underestimating how good Lockett and MetCalf can be once the entire field is opened up. We saw glimpses of that last year.

Good point. You're talking about two elite wr's who have had their route trees (well routes they typically get thr ball on) limited to primarily out routes, flies, and scramble routes.

Both QBs, regardless of any missing 'x' factor, are able to hit all areas of the field.

 

[Chukarhawk]

A voice of reason. Welcome to the thunderdome.

When the group on one side of an issue is willing to entertain facts and adjust perception of a situation based on real-time, current data and the other is entirely inflexible in their belief and sees the future as being set... that's when two people or opposing groups throw up there hands and say 'there's nothing here to discuss'.

And that's the nonsensical dance that plays out in these 'discussion' forums.

The issue here is that for some, no matter what good Pete, or Geno do, it won't move the needle at all. Any mistake or misstep is amplified. Any success, couched as luck.

If Geno sets the franchise record for consecutive completed passes, it's dismissed because it was done against the Jags. Yet the fact that, for example, that the Jags D didn't rank a whole lot better than several of the pass defenses we played during Russ's hot streak early in his 'cooking' year, or that our starting QBs for the last, what X + years have had an opportunity to set that record against equally bad teams when they've played them and didnt... those realities are lost on them.

Or... when the argument is presented that Geno is playing well, it's countered with accusations that folks are blindly defending him and that hes actually playing horribly. So stats come out showing that Geno is in fact, playing as well as any QB in the preseason (even without TDs). And of course, the standard response from the other side is that it's just the preseason.

There's no tangible discussion around his skill or performance, unless you count mischaracterizing a PA trip of Lockett against the Rams that resulted in an interception of a perfectly thrown pass as Geno's error. Or shouldering Geno with the fault for getting sacked for the 6th time against the Steelers and losing the ball in a comeback bid ( same folks would blame an error like that on the OLine had it happened to Russ). Or...

For some it doesn't matter what's presented for DISCUSSION in this forum. What trumps discourse is a flat statement of (and myopic view of) ones opinion. And when that's the beginning and end of a person's willingness to engage in conversation on a subject... there's no conversation, no discussion, and no discussion board.

Having an opinion is fine. And not caring to move from it is fine. But if that's the choice a person is going to make, then it's idiotic to debate someone entertaining new data and facts and then accuse the other person or group of being inflexible, or 'blind' , because they choose not to be stuck in a view of a player that was set in a context wholly different than current reality.

Keep your opinion. State it. But it's not possible to DISCUSS a position that is inflexible and biased by personal feelings.

I didnt think much of Geno when he was with the Jets because I didn't see what the hoolplah was around him. His performance didn't change that.

I also wanst crazy about him when we signed him.

But the fact is, his passer rating, td rating, and completion percentage, coming off the bench, cold after not starting in years was head and shoulder above anything he posted prior.

And his performance this year in the preseason, without drops, has been good enough to be tops in the league. Neither his stats last year or so far in the preseason guarantee he'll be good enough to carry the team to the playoffs. But they also don't point to the player he was before he came here. So what he will be is unknown, but is promising in that he just might be able to do enough to make us competitive.

And that thought is somehow threatening / frustrating / aggevating to some.

Playing well in 4 quarters of preseason where he didn't score a single point? Uh, ok, is that how low the bar is now? Geno is a bridge QB, that bridge is a high 1st round draft pick because were going to win 4-5 games. Tanking while having plausible deniability that you are actually tanking. He's the new Tarvaris Jackson.

 

[keasley45]

Playing well in 4 quarters of preseason where he didn't score a single point? Uh, ok, is that how low the bar is now? Geno is a bridge QB, that bridge is a high 1st round draft pick because were going to win 4-5 games. Tanking while having plausible deniability that you are actually tanking. He's the new Tarvaris Jackson.

He's not a point guard or forward. This isn't basketball or soccer. The qb throws the ball, receivers have to catch it.

Check the stats on what his completion percentage would be if he wanst throwing to bench guys. And didn't he run for a td in Pittsburgh? Or are rushing Tds disqualified now too?

Great post though.

 

[keasley45]

Playing well in 4 quarters of preseason where he didn't score a single point? Uh, ok, is that how low the bar is now? Geno is a bridge QB, that bridge is a high 1st round draft pick because were going to win 4-5 games. Tanking while having plausible deniability that you are actually tanking. He's the new Tarvaris Jackson.

And whether he's a bridge or not has zero bearing on what he's doing at the moment.

I think that's about the 50th time that's been said.

 

[Chukarhawk]

What he's doing now is being Geno, a completely ineffective QB that cant score TD's.

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

Playing well in 4 quarters of preseason where he didn't score a single point? Uh, ok, is that how low the bar is now? Geno is a bridge QB, that bridge is a high 1st round draft pick because were going to win 4-5 games. Tanking while having plausible deniability that you are actually tanking. He's the new Tarvaris Jackson.

Scoring TDs in preseason is a feel-good topic but not relevant to what will happen when the scoring does count. You may feel better if they had blown out the Steelers and the Bears, but the coaches are evaluating individual players and schemes to decide who to keep, who to let go, and to teach the team how to execute plays effectively.

 

[willyrobt]

I think Geno Smith will be starting on opening day. He looks quicker and smoother in the pocket than Drew.

 

[toffee]

I honestly don't see a struggle moving the ball through the air this year IMO. Lock is going to be able to roll out and hit Fant or Metcalf no problem with designed play action Or, Geno is going to hit screens, go routes and skinny posts.

I think some people are seriously underestimating how good Lockett and MetCalf can be once the entire field is opened up. We saw glimpses of that last year.

Wanna see that again?

 

[Rock_the_Hawk]

Wanna see that again?

Not to mention they have a fantasic run game to lean on... but i really think success of the team will be because the D plays really well... i think the D has a chance to be really good they get that pass rush going the secondary is young but much , much better than last year..