Jody Allen needs to have a come to Jesus with Pete

Maelstrom787

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How many years are we going to be going through rebuilding excuse? We have been doing this since 2017 or before. We really have not been a legitimate contender since 2014 Unless just having a winning record is the goal and we can consider everything else gravy?
That's not really fair. In 2018, early expectations were "rebuild" but that quickly went out the window as it became clear they could win. They came pretty close to an NFCCG appearance in 2019.

The rebuilding excuse hasn't really been used as an excuse, outside of this year, which IS obviously a very different situation. Didn't hear anyone saying anything about "oh, they're rebuilding, it's okay" in 2018, 2019, or 2020.
 

renofox

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If a team is successfully rebuilding, you expect to see signs of improvement. I haven't seen that. In fact, it's been the opposite.

This Defense has shown themselves to be consistently sub-mediocre for 5+ years. Having a decent game against bottom-10 defenses now and then doesn't mean squat.

The Seahawks Defense has been dreadful for years, and I have -0- confidence PC will ever turn it around.
 

chrispy

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Jody Allen needs to have a come to Jesus with Pete​


Pete's a really good coach, but I wouldn't go so far as to call him Jesus.

Great job this year. I expect that he takes us to the playoffs and further next year. Much gratitude, Pete!
 

GeekHawk

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You fuckheads make it hard to include myself as a Seahawks fan when you are part of that. Like, holy shit. We were supposed to win 4 goddamn games this year. Remember? Remember? What the **** is wrong with you all? We reached the playoffs with 240% of our roster being rookies! and the rest were all like 7th rounders while 85 of the whiners 53 were first round picks.

Obviously I exaggerate, But not that much, and y'all know what I mean.
 

hawkcrazzed

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So let me get this straight u guys wanted to run ken norton out now clint hurtt. Pete has full control above the gm. Has had blinders on only promoting from within. Holding
coaches way to long. Hiring his kids to be on the staff. Having historic bad defenses for a DEFENSIVE COACH. But its never him its always his OC/DC. Im so tired of the its
everybody but him because he won 1 superbowl almost a damn decade ago.

He is old and out of touch. A rah rah guy that has no x's and o's in game adjustments. We had the best talent in the early 2010's because pete was fresh out of USC. He had seen the the talent week in and out. And picked up alot of the guys that he couldn't recruit. We had a gm that knew the talent in the nfl and traded/signed it. But we haven't seen a brillant draft since 2015 really. I believe that john had more to do with our last draft as it wasn't those fringe players that pete loves.

The buck should stop at pete but never does. We can't go on just getting spanked in the playoffs first round each year. Last i will leave you with something that has stuck with me since i heard it. Pete was great in college because the kids moved on every 4 years. That says more about pete then anything. And we truely are seeing the results of it. When do we finaly take the homer glasses off and see he isn't great. And people who are a frightened of change. That is what life is. And we are stuck in a loop of being just not good enough and its really really tiring.
 

mikeford

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Well if Jody agrees with the majority, she's not someone who will hesitate to do it.
 

Spin Doctor

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So let me get this straight u guys wanted to run ken norton out now clint hurtt. Pete has full control above the gm. Has had blinders on only promoting from within. Holding
coaches way to long. Hiring his kids to be on the staff. Having historic bad defenses for a DEFENSIVE COACH. But its never him its always his OC/DC. Im so tired of the its
everybody but him because he won 1 superbowl almost a damn decade ago.

He is old and out of touch. A rah rah guy that has no x's and o's in game adjustments. We had the best talent in the early 2010's because pete was fresh out of USC. He had seen the the talent week in and out. And picked up alot of the guys that he couldn't recruit. We had a gm that knew the talent in the nfl and traded/signed it. But we haven't seen a brillant draft since 2015 really. I believe that john had more to do with our last draft as it wasn't those fringe players that pete loves.

The buck should stop at pete but never does. We can't go on just getting spanked in the playoffs first round each year. Last i will leave you with something that has stuck with me since i heard it. Pete was great in college because the kids moved on every 4 years. That says more about pete then anything. And we truely are seeing the results of it. When do we finaly take the homer glasses off and see he isn't great. And people who are a frightened of change. That is what life is. And we are stuck in a loop of being just not good enough and its really really tiring.
Here is the thing about Pete Carroll. He's an elite program manager. Being an HC is much more than just being good at X's and O's. It's why brilliant coordinators such as Fangio and Josh McDaniels can't seem to run a franchise properly. Very common story in the NFL. Hotshot coordinator gets the job, can't manage his team or the big personalities that come with said team.

Pete Carroll is fantastic at managing personalities and getting people to believe in themselves. The players feel as if they are heard and part of the process. In this respect, I think the Carroll is even better than Bill Belichick in his prime. Carroll just has a way with people and managing difficult situations. This is EXTREMELY important and I'm going to say something controversial -- it's the most important aspect of coaching.

Where Carroll falls short is the in game coaching and X's and O's bit. He's not a fantastic in game coach and sometimes his game plans can be perplexing. He has the tendency to hire coordinators and coaching staff that are well below par. He gave guys such as Norton Jr. a job despite poor performance in Oakland. Hurtt was given a job when he managed the most consistently underwhelming part of our team.

Carroll also has a tendency to shift away from things that are working almost inexplicably. It's been an issue throughout his whole career here. Early on we thrived off timing routes and stretching teams out horizontally then slamming them in the second half with the run game from weird formations. Later in the season it looked like the RW special again. I've never seen teams avoid quick slants more than our team, yet whenever we run it with DK he seems to get huge yardage. The team has never seemed to be consistent throughout a season since those legendary LOB teams. You never know what you're going to get with a Carroll Seahawk team from week to week.

Carroll is what I call a high floor, low ceiling sort of coach. You're never going to have a straight up terrible season with him. He seems at his best when dealing with inexperienced, young players that are outmatched. His philosophy of simplicity and allowing players to be their best seem to make these teams thrive. Unfortunately, when he has a roster with more talented players they seem to underperform. He has these default modes that he seems to like going to.

I think at the end of the day, Carroll's issue is that he needs to surround himself with better football minds while he manages the whole operation. Want to run a Vic Fangio style defense? ROLE THE BRINKS TRUCK UP TO VIC FANGIO'S HOUSE, don't mess with a guy that has bounced around the NCAA and NFL with no coordinator experience in Hurtt.

Want run a Shanahan style west coast offense? Stop messing around with failures like Bates and Bevell when you had the chance at the guy himself in 2015 instead of sticking with Bevell after he threw all of his players underneath the bus and refused to take responsibility.

This is what frustrates me the most about Carroll, his coordinator decisions are often times baffling.
 

Hawkpower

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How many years are we going to be going through rebuilding excuse? We have been doing this since 2017 or before. We really have not been a legitimate contender since 2014 Unless just having a winning record is the goal and we can consider everything else gravy?

When were we rebuilding before this year? What are you talking about? We were 10-6, 11-5 and 12-4 in 18, 19 and 20. Thats not rebuilding.

We just traded our long time Pro Bowl QB and have a high pick in the draft

So the rebuilding is now. You know this
 

Hawkpower

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Here is the thing about Pete Carroll. He's an elite program manager. Being an HC is much more than just being good at X's and O's. It's why brilliant coordinators such as Fangio and Josh McDaniels can't seem to run a franchise properly. Very common story in the NFL. Hotshot coordinator gets the job, can't manage his team or the big personalities that come with said team.

Pete Carroll is fantastic at managing personalities and getting people to believe in themselves. The players feel as if they are heard and part of the process. In this respect, I think the Carroll is even better than Bill Belichick in his prime. Carroll just has a way with people and managing difficult situations. This is EXTREMELY important and I'm going to say something controversial -- it's the most important aspect of coaching.

Where Carroll falls short is the in game coaching and X's and O's bit. He's not a fantastic in game coach and sometimes his game plans can be perplexing. He has the tendency to hire coordinators and coaching staff that are well below par. He gave guys such as Norton Jr. a job despite poor performance in Oakland. Hurtt was given a job when he managed the most consistently underwhelming part of our team.

Carroll also has a tendency to shift away from things that are working almost inexplicably. It's been an issue throughout his whole career here. Early on we thrived off timing routes and stretching teams out horizontally then slamming them in the second half with the run game from weird formations. Later in the season it looked like the RW special again. I've never seen teams avoid quick slants more than our team, yet whenever we run it with DK he seems to get huge yardage. The team has never seemed to be consistent throughout a season since those legendary LOB teams. You never know what you're going to get with a Carroll Seahawk team from week to week.

Carroll is what I call a high floor, low ceiling sort of coach. You're never going to have a straight up terrible season with him. He seems at his best when dealing with inexperienced, young players that are outmatched. His philosophy of simplicity and allowing players to be their best seem to make these teams thrive. Unfortunately, when he has a roster with more talented players they seem to underperform. He has these default modes that he seems to like going to.

I think at the end of the day, Carroll's issue is that he needs to surround himself with better football minds while he manages the whole operation. Want to run a Vic Fangio style defense? ROLE THE BRINKS TRUCK UP TO VIC FANGIO'S HOUSE, don't mess with a guy that has bounced around the NCAA and NFL with no coordinator experience in Hurtt.

Want run a Shanahan style west coast offense? Stop messing around with failures like Bates and Bevell when you had the chance at the guy himself in 2015 instead of sticking with Bevell after he threw all of his players underneath the bus and refused to take responsibility.

This is what frustrates me the most about Carroll, his coordinator decisions are often times baffling.

Were our Superbowl appearances (and dominating win) due to superior coordinator performance?

What about his National Championships at USC?

I agree with you about his strengths, but I think some of the rest of that is affected by recency bias.

At the end of the day, talent is king. Makes x's and 0's look so much better haha :)
 

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Are any of the people bitching about Pete the same people who predicted an atrocious record?😌 If so, seek help. You make 0 sense.
In the preseason, I predicted this team had an "outside shot at the wildcard" with them losing in the first round.

I just wanted this game to competitive, within 1 or 2 scores. Not an embarrassing rout in the second half.

The defense was once again atrocious. It let a rookie QB score 4 TDs. It couldn't stop the run to save its life.

I've always been an ardent Pete supporter, but the rope is growing short. If significant improvement is not made on defense next season, I'm ready to move on.
 

Fade

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If the same coaches remain in place, expect no major improvement.

Fool me once shame on me.
Fool me twice, I'm a patient man, I'll give you more time.
Now we're up to fool me 8 times…

At this point, I question one's sanity if you think it will just magically change at this point with more draft picks. Whaddaya think they've been doing the last 5 years?

https://www.seahawks.net/threads/the-hawks-d-vs-the-top-8-d-asset-expenditure.184749/
 

hoxrox

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The reason why I'm willing to extend the rope for one more year is because I consider the RW trade the point at which "organizational reset" happened.

They haven't had this kind of draft capitol for over a decade, and last year they showed they can still draft. So that is what I'm hanging my hat on.
 

SantaClaraHawk

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We’ve made so many crappy coach hires plus bad contracts since 2017 that it’s now a trend. Pete blows the defense constantly and needs to find an eviro equivalent.
 

Jegpeg

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What matters is results. Putting resources into defence or offence is a balance. People are saying we have had a poor team since 2017, since then we have had 5 winning seasons out of 6. In the last 5 years our win loss record is joint 6th best in the NFL. This is after making the play-offs every year from 2012 to 2016 resulting in a team built on low draft capital being forced to trade or release some of their best players due to cap limits.
Team records in the last 5 years

Yes it would be good to go further and win the superbowl, Pete is the only HC to lead to the the SB if we fire him we are probably reducing our chances of winning it in the next few years.

I don't have the split by O and D but in recent years our drafting has been roughly average. Looking at career approximate value over expected since 2016 in even years we have done above average and in odd years we have done below average. I don't have the figure for 2022 but I suspect we had the best draft in the NFL by that metric last year.
Seahawks Draft performance

Since 2013 we have been forced to replace our best players as they leave due to cap space issues but without enough draft space to do so. This isn't the fault of Pete and John it is just the way the NFL works. The only team to really defy this was the Pats, Brady was not only an exceptional QB in talent but one that was willing to accept a lot less pay than what he could get in order to improve the amount of talent the team could put around him (last season Wilson took up 17.5% of our cap space where Brady was using up 5.8% of the Buccs space, even his last season as a Pat he was on 10.9% of cap)

With hindsight the Adams trade was a mistake, at the time I thought it was an attempt to "win now" Wilson was obviously looking for more rings / a move and the Adams trade looked to me like an attempt to trade away the future in an attempt to get another superbowl before Wilson left. The Wilson trade has provided us with a decent amount of draft capital and I think Peate and John are in as good a position as anyone else to make the most of that.

Cross has been solid but rookie tackles rarely excel, I expect a big improment in him over the next couple of years. Bryant and Woolen were fantastic drafts on defence last year and if we can get a few defensive lineman this year I would expect an improvemnt int he team next year and a really challenge for the big one the year after.
 

scutterhawk

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Yep nothing like a good one and done a$$ beating in the playoffs to put a stamp on a fine season. I mean that's what it's all about right, making the playoffs? I thought it was winning it all. Silly me.
Silly you is right, try "winning it all" WITHOUT making it into the playoffs.
FACT: At the beginning of the season, and including MYSELF, you couldn't have found even ONE single person that would have believed we'd have gotten as far as we did, NOT ONE.
The Seahawks were in a Reload Season, simple as that, WE HAVE NOT ARRIVED, NOW we are at the point of digestion, we have to gauge just where, who, and how to continue our "Reloading", $$MONEY$$, FA & Draft order has a lot of sway over who you can rent/bring in to help get the team to the NEXT LEVEL.
Hurtt did NOT have the players he needed to run his desired Defense, (which to me was a really dumb scheme anyway), trying to implement a 3-4 with the horses he had in the first place? not good.
I HOPE they abandon the idea of trying to reload with that same unsuccessful scheme in mind.
Geno to the Pro Bowl, nuff said, he ain't the problem, problems were that Waldron couldn't scheme plays that the RG, Center could implement AND not having a good enough Run Game to keep Defenses from just pinning their ears back and blowing up Genos' ability to get the ball out to his Receivers in a timely manner.
 

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