NFC West Training Camp

[NINEster]

How sad are the 49,rams,cardinals fans now that the hawks have russell locked up?

uh...why would we be upset?

I don't think anyone actually thought it wouldn't happen. Now you have to pay your QB north of 20 mil per year. Sounds like a good day to be a Niner/Ram/Cards fan.

Agree.

It's one thing for Niner fans to overreact and think this is going to turn the Hawks into an 8 win team, but at the same time it's silly for those Hawk fans that think this actually makes the Seahawk team stronger.

 

[NINEster]

Without understanding the situation here I am sure they feel we are cap strung now, were not _

You would be correct. They keep thinking its a 4 year deal worth 81 million... I am trying to explain the word extension, and how its really a 5 year deal at a bargain. They believe each year the cap hit will be 20M plus which is very very wrong.

It is a 4 year deal worth 81 million, it's just that 5 million of the deal (through bonus money) gets to be spread out over the year he was already under contract.

And the cap hit over the four years of deal averages 20.5 million a year, so, they're actually not very, very, very wrong. They're right.

Not knocking the deal at all, it's right around where it should be IMO, but I don't think you should be "correcting" anyone about it.

This.[/quote]

Just to be clear are you guys saying the Hawks don't have Wilson for the next 5 years on average for less than 20M?

Or is it true that he is signed for the next 5 years, and out of those 5 years 3 are below 20 million, and 2 are above. The 2 being when the Cap is going to be much much higher than it is? Spin it however you want. The fact is this deal is spread out over 5 years. The money is spread out over 5 years, so its basically a 5 year deal at a very cheap rate considering the return[/quote]






No...we're saying its over 20 million per in the last 4 years of the deal.

BTW, I made this EXACT same argument when Kap signed his contract (6 year deal but kept the first year intact, so 7 years overall) and was labeled "homer". Rising cap, first year intact, etc.

Seahawks may not be strapped, but next year with Wilson and everyone else making their money plus Wagner, plus Kam, plus possibly more for Bennett....it adds up.

Just means you can't keep everyone you might want to keep.

Its reason to rejoice for non Seahawks fans not because they'll fall apart with that contract, but because they'll no longer enjoy the biggest bargain in the NFL.[/quote]

Hawks lost some true warriors in the trenches following SB48 like Red Bryant and Chris Clemons, back when the cap looked a lot better for them.

What happens if Mebane has to go?

Basically what happens if the unsung heroes in the run game cannot be replaced at the prior levels? That could easily be the difference between advancing and being eliminated in the playoffs.

 

[Maulbert]

What happens if Mebane has to go?

Someone wasn't paying attention last season. Mebane didn't even play after the Kansas City game. Honestly, did not do any favors for him contract-wise. Jordan Hill played well for us down the stretch. I'll be surprised if they give Mebane a new deal.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Without understanding the situation here I am sure they feel we are cap strung now, were not _

You would be correct. They keep thinking its a 4 year deal worth 81 million... I am trying to explain the word extension, and how its really a 5 year deal at a bargain. They believe each year the cap hit will be 20M plus which is very very wrong.[/quote]

is a 4 year deal worth 81 million, it's just that 5 million of the deal (through bonus money) gets to be spread out over the year he was already under contract.

And the cap hit over the four years of deal averages 20.5 million a year, so, they're actually not very, very, very wrong. They're right.

Not knocking the deal at all, it's right around where it should be IMO, but I don't think you should be "correcting" anyone about it.

This.

Just to be clear are you guys saying the Hawks don't have Wilson for the next 5 years on average for less than 20M?

Or is it true that he is signed for the next 5 years, and out of those 5 years 3 are below 20 million, and 2 are above. The 2 being when the Cap is going to be much much higher than it is? Spin it however you want. The fact is this deal is spread out over 5 years. The money is spread out over 5 years, so its basically a 5 year deal at a very cheap rate considering the return

Especially when you see what Luck gets next year.

 

[Marvin49]

What happens if Mebane has to go?

Someone wasn't paying attention last season. Mebane didn't even play after the Kansas City game. Honestly, did not do any favors for him contract-wise. Jordan Hill played well for us down the stretch. I'll be surprised if they give Mebane a new deal.

I think you are missing the point a bit.

With each passing core player that gets his money, you lose the ability to keep a mid range salary to back him up. Pretty soon 60% or 70% of your cap is going to big ticket players and your depth suffers greatly.

This isn't to say the Seahawks won't continue to be a very, very good team...its just saying now it gets much harder to STAY a good team when all those young guys are no longer on their rookie deals and makes the draft UBER important to maintain depth. You become a victim of your own success. I'm not predicting the downfall of the 'hawks by any stretch, but it will get harder. That's just the way it all works.

The Niners have been in that boat for a few years now. Now they have let some guys walk away (Goldson, Whitner, Rogers, Gore, Iupati, Crabtree, etc) and some have unexpectedly retired. Now we get to see if all those draft picks amounted to something. Seattle will be in a similar spot eventually. How they manage it will go a long way to seeing if they'll remain a powerhouse.

 

[Marvin49]

Without understanding the situation here I am sure they feel we are cap strung now, were not _

You would be correct. They keep thinking its a 4 year deal worth 81 million... I am trying to explain the word extension, and how its really a 5 year deal at a bargain. They believe each year the cap hit will be 20M plus which is very very wrong.

is a 4 year deal worth 81 million, it's just that 5 million of the deal (through bonus money) gets to be spread out over the year he was already under contract.

And the cap hit over the four years of deal averages 20.5 million a year, so, they're actually not very, very, very wrong. They're right.

Not knocking the deal at all, it's right around where it should be IMO, but I don't think you should be "correcting" anyone about it.

This.[/quote]


Just to be clear are you guys saying the Hawks don't have Wilson for the next 5 years on average for less than 20M?

Or is it true that he is signed for the next 5 years, and out of those 5 years 3 are below 20 million, and 2 are above. The 2 being when the Cap is going to be much much higher than it is? Spin it however you want. The fact is this deal is spread out over 5 years. The money is spread out over 5 years, so its basically a 5 year deal at a very cheap rate considering the return[/quote]
Especially when you see what Luck gets next year.[/quote]

I think you are reading too much into this.

He was ALWAYS going to play out this season at the 1.5 or a bit more than that to spread across the life of the deal. Kap did the exact same thing. Both WIlson and Kap were already under contract for a final year of their rookie contracts.

Kap was due 2 mil or so last year and the rest of his salary last year was the entirety of his signing bonus (13 mil).

It was a 6 year EXTENSION, but covered 7 years. We get it. Its not new.

However, it is over 20 mill per season in the years that are NEW to the deal...IE, starting next year. That's not to say its a bad deal or that he doesn't deserve it, but it is roughly 20 mil per season of NEW MONEY. THAT'S what we're saying.

Good for him. He earned it.

It is funny tho to read the "market will go way up in the next few years and this will look like a steal" posts. That is of COURESE completely true but it also just happens to be EXACTLY what I was saying last year when Kap signed and peeps were all over me for it. Funny how things change. Perspective is a wonderful thing.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Except for the fact that Keaporpick will never see the real money in that contract because Wilson is in the same division just like that defense that no matter how you spin it has his number. The same defense that's locked up for next 3-4 years at minimum.

Here's a hint for you if you haven't figured it out yet. They're doing EXACTLY what Tampa Bay's defensive core did years ago but the Seahawks just did something Tampa Bay or Chicago never could. Lock up one of the top 2 young elite quarterbacks in the league.

Luck is really the only young guy on his level and that's just based on potential not results like Russ. And it can be argued as top 5 regardless of who allow concerning current active quarterbacks.

What's worse is the fact that you're brain will explode and eyes bleed once you get a load of Luck's contract.

 

[Shadowhawk]

Without understanding the situation here I am sure they feel we are cap strung now, were not _

You would be correct. They keep thinking its a 4 year deal worth 81 million... I am trying to explain the word extension, and how its really a 5 year deal at a bargain. They believe each year the cap hit will be 20M plus which is very very wrong.

It is a 4 year deal worth 81 million, it's just that 5 million of the deal (through bonus money) gets to be spread out over the year he was already under contract.

And the cap hit over the four years of deal averages 20.5 million a year, so, they're actually not very, very, very wrong. They're right.

Not knocking the deal at all, it's right around where it should be IMO, but I don't think you should be "correcting" anyone about it.

Just to be clear are you guys saying the Hawks don't have Wilson for the next 5 years on average for less than 20M?

Or is it true that he is signed for the next 5 years, and out of those 5 years 3 are below 20 million, and 2 are above. The 2 being when the Cap is going to be much much higher than it is? Spin it however you want. The fact is this deal is spread out over 5 years. The money is spread out over 5 years, so its basically a 5 year deal at a very cheap rate considering the return[/quote]


No...we're saying its over 20 million per in the last 4 years of the deal.[/quote]

---------------------------------

And you are flat out wrong when you say it's over 20 million per in the last 4 years of the deal.

The cap hits are as follows:

2015: $7.054M
2016: $18.54M
2017: $18.8M
2018: $21.7M
2019: $23.2M

Wilson does not count for more than $20 million against the cap until the last two years of his deal. More info can be found here:

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/7/31/908 ... in/8846286

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Without understanding the situation here I am sure they feel we are cap strung now, were not _

You would be correct. They keep thinking its a 4 year deal worth 81 million... I am trying to explain the word extension, and how its really a 5 year deal at a bargain. They believe each year the cap hit will be 20M plus which is very very wrong.

It is a 4 year deal worth 81 million, it's just that 5 million of the deal (through bonus money) gets to be spread out over the year he was already under contract.

And the cap hit over the four years of deal averages 20.5 million a year, so, they're actually not very, very, very wrong. They're right.

Not knocking the deal at all, it's right around where it should be IMO, but I don't think you should be "correcting" anyone about it.

Just to be clear are you guys saying the Hawks don't have Wilson for the next 5 years on average for less than 20M?

Or is it true that he is signed for the next 5 years, and out of those 5 years 3 are below 20 million, and 2 are above. The 2 being when the Cap is going to be much much higher than it is? Spin it however you want. The fact is this deal is spread out over 5 years. The money is spread out over 5 years, so its basically a 5 year deal at a very cheap rate considering the return

No...we're saying its over 20 million per in the last 4 years of the deal.[/quote]

---------------------------------

And you are flat out wrong when you say it's over 20 million per in the last 4 years of the deal.

The cap hits are as follows:

2015: $7.054M
2016: $18.54M
2017: $18.8M
2018: $21.7M
2019: $23.2M

Wilson does not count for more than $20 million against the cap until the last two years of his deal. More info can be found here:

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/7/31/908 ... in/8846286[/quote]
Isn't it great when you get a scenerio where both sides win? I'm a San Francisco native and you guys have NO IDEA of the fun ride you just joined. Elite level quarterbacks are rare and for the first time in franchise history the Seahawks have one. It's the reason the Web zone is in meltdown. They had Montana and know exactly what we just did and they hate it.

 

[RolandDeschain]

NFL players that will have a larger cap hit at some point in their current deals than Russell Wilson:

Ben Roethlisberger ($23.95m, 2016)
Drew Brees ($26.4m, 2015)
Matt Ryan ($23.75m, 2016)
Joe Flacco ($28.55m, 2016, and an astounding $31.15m in 2017)
Ndamukong Suh ($28.6m, 2016)
Tony Romo ($24.7m, 2017)

Most of those players have multiple years coming up with higher cap hits than Wilson's worst year, and Wilson's worst is in 2019 which Spotrac doesn't even list out to. (Only through 2018.)

Yeah, I think we're going to be just fine with the cap. Sorry, enemy fans.

 

[rideaducati]

What happens if Mebane has to go?

Someone wasn't paying attention last season. Mebane didn't even play after the Kansas City game. Honestly, did not do any favors for him contract-wise. Jordan Hill played well for us down the stretch. I'll be surprised if they give Mebane a new deal.

I think you are missing the point a bit.

With each passing core player that gets his money, you lose the ability to keep a mid range salary to back him up. Pretty soon 60% or 70% of your cap is going to big ticket players and your depth suffers greatly.

This isn't to say the Seahawks won't continue to be a very, very good team...its just saying now it gets much harder to STAY a good team when all those young guys are no longer on their rookie deals and makes the draft UBER important to maintain depth. You become a victim of your own success. I'm not predicting the downfall of the 'hawks by any stretch, but it will get harder. That's just the way it all works.

The Niners have been in that boat for a few years now. Now they have let some guys walk away (Goldson, Whitner, Rogers, Gore, Iupati, Crabtree, etc) and some have unexpectedly retired. Now we get to see if all those draft picks amounted to something. Seattle will be in a similar spot eventually. How they manage it will go a long way to seeing if they'll remain a powerhouse.

Marvin, there are no "mid-range" backup players on the Seahawks roster. I think all backup players are on their rookie deals except for Rubin. The Seahawks have been doing this since 2011 and will jettison a pretty good starter or two every year and get all they can from the last two years of rookie deals. Guys on their rookie deals with Seattle get playing time before they are needed to be starters, so you just think they are "mid-range" backup players because you've already heard their names, but they aren't.

One major difference between the niners and the Seahawks is that the Seahawks actually have guys that they want to sign to second contracts. Had the niners drafted better, they might actually HAVE a player they want to extend this year. Next year, the niners will have their entire 2012 draft picks to extend...wait, what? Hold on, I'm having difficulty FINDING a niner 2012 draft pick still on their team... Oh well, Baalke is still great. :th2thumbs:

On the bright side, Baalke has many many millions of dollars to go after free agents next year to make up for his questionable drafting. There's always "next year" for you niner fans.

 

[rideaducati]

NFL players that will have a larger cap hit at some point in their current deals than Russell Wilson:

Ben Roethlisberger ($23.95m, 2016)
Drew Brees ($26.4m, 2015)
Matt Ryan ($23.75m, 2016)
Joe Flacco ($28.55m, 2016, and an astounding $31.15m in 2017)
Ndamukong Suh ($28.6m, 2016)
Tony Romo ($24.7m, 2017)

Most of those players have multiple years coming up with higher cap hits than Wilson's worst year, and Wilson's worst is in 2019 which Spotrac doesn't even list out to. (Only through 2018.)

Yeah, I think we're going to be just fine with the cap. Sorry, enemy fans.

Russell's cap hit in 2019 is $23.2m, which is the highest cap hit of his contract.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Russell's cap hit in 2019 is $23.2m, which is the highest cap hit of his contract.

I know. Where's the confusion? Reread my post, perhaps...?

 

[rideaducati]

Russell's cap hit in 2019 is $23.2m, which is the highest cap hit of his contract.

I know. Where's the confusion? Reread my post, perhaps...?

I didn't see a number associated with Russell...by your post, it seemed that you didn't have it.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Russell's cap hit in 2019 is $23.2m, which is the highest cap hit of his contract.

I know. Where's the confusion? Reread my post, perhaps...?

I didn't see a number associated with Russell...by your post, it seemed that you didn't have it.

Ah. I had it, which is how I knew...The ones I listed, were above Russell's highest cap hit number.

 

[rideaducati]

Russell's cap hit in 2019 is $23.2m, which is the highest cap hit of his contract.

I know. Where's the confusion? Reread my post, perhaps...?

I didn't see a number associated with Russell...by your post, it seemed that you didn't have it.

Ah. I had it, which is how I knew...The ones I listed, were above Russell's highest cap hit number.

Yes, but you have to have realized that we have many ignorant niner fans around that are too lazy to actually look up the number. :th2thumbs:

 

[rideaducati]

I was trying to help Ro.

This might give Russell's contract a little more perspective for niner fans.

Top 11 2016 QB cap hits.

Joe Flacco $28,550,000
Drew Brees $27,400,000
Ben Roethlisberger $23,950,000
Matt Ryan $23,750,000
Matt Stafford $22,500,000
Peyton Manning $21,500,000
Tony Romo $20,835,000
Cam Newton $19,500,000
Aaron Rodgers $19,250,000
Carson Palmer $19,075,000
Russell Wilson $18,540,000

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Looks about right given he's already at the other guys level or better in the case of 5-6 of them.

 

[rideaducati]

I was trying to help Ro.

This might give Russell's contract a little more perspective for niner fans.

Top 11 2016 QB cap hits.

Joe Flacco $28,550,000
Drew Brees $27,400,000
Ben Roethlisberger $23,950,000
Matt Ryan $23,750,000
Matt Stafford $22,500,000
Peyton Manning $21,500,000
Tony Romo $20,835,000
Cam Newton $19,500,000
Aaron Rodgers $19,250,000
Carson Palmer $19,075,000
Russell Wilson $18,540,000

Top 11 2017 cap hits:


Joe Flacco $31,150,000
Tony Romo $24,700,000
Matt Ryan $23,750,000
Carson Palmer $22,675,000
Matt Stafford $22,000,000
Aaron Rodgers $20,300,000
Ryan Tannehill $20,300,000
Cam Newton $20,166,000
Colin Kaepernick $19,365,753
Russell Wilson $18,800,000
Ben Roethlisberger $18,200,000

Funny how Kaepernick is going to have a higher cap hit in 2017, yet it is the Seahawks that will be in cap hell according to niner fans.

 

[Sports Hernia]

To summarize.......

Well, according to the Denialzone "cap wizards" Seattle is "all in" to win for this year only and will be in cap hell starting next year and most think we cant sign Wagner after signing RW and they will magically have a shot at him, and JS will stop getting "lucky" in drafts. :lol:

Pity the fools! 8)