Pete uncertain whether Jamal will be ready week 1

[BASF]

I will never understand how a Seahawks fan devalues the safety position.

Anyone remember 2004 where Terreal Bierria cost us four games with his poor play? If we had a competent safety we win those four games and have home field advantage throughout. Those Eagles would not have beaten us in Seattle. Who knows what would have happened if we played the Patriots in the Super Bowl. Maybe if we had the respect of making it the previous season, the NFL would not have robbed us in '05.

How about 2005 when the injuries to Hamlin and Manuel allowed the big plays for the Steelers in the Super Bowl?

How about when we lost Kam in 2017, our defense fell out of the top ten in points and yards?

How about when we lost Thomas in 2018 and our defense fell out of the top half of the league in yards?

Pete's defense relies on the safeties, probably more than other defenses.

As far as Adams:

https://media.tenor.com/aDU29ecvlRwAAAAC/cut-his-ass-waterboy.gif

 

[jammerhawk]

Once again the Adams haters can’t resist to throw rocks. Undoubtedly he was an expensive addition and has underplayed his contract b/c he can't stay on the field

Players get hurt all the time. Regrettably it sucks when a very good player gets hurt and his significant contract is unproductive. For sure it is true he has been snakebite with unusual injuries. When he does return I suspect some of the haters will be pleased and surprised with what he brings to the table.

Many here don’t think Adams is a good player, they reinvent history b/c he has a recent injury history. In case some don't know he did set an NFL record for sacks by a DB with 9 in the first season he played here. He is a very good blitzer, and a sure tackler.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And even when he DOES play well, will people admit that he's good? Some won't. Guaranteed.

 

[jammerhawk]

Totally true!

Adams is a favourite .net whipping boy as the trade was admittedly expensive and Adams was given big new contract which he has through injury sadly underperformed to date.

 

[RiverDog]

I will never understand how a Seahawks fan devalues the safety position.

It isn't just Seahawk fans that devalue safeties. The teams devalue them, too. How many safeties in the past 10 years were drafted in the top 10? Even Earl, a #14 overall pick, was our 2nd selection in that draft. Serious question: How many safeties has our current regime drafted in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd rounds? Not very many.

 

[AgentDib]

Once again the Adams haters can’t resist to throw rocks.

There's an important distinction between hating Jamal Adams and hating the trade for Jamal Adams. It's possible to root for him to make a full recovery and an impact on the field this season, and also think the trade was fundamentally poor strategy for NFL roster building.

To me its perfectly reasonable to think that if what you need is a player to tip you to a championship in the near future and reset the identity thereafter, a bird in hand is worth more than two (firsts) in the bush.

The question here is how much Jamal elevated our chances. We can probably agree that it's more complicated than binary "non-contender" or "contender" buckets. In a typical season, the strongest team has something like a 10% chance to win the Super Bowl, 7th best has a 5% chance, 10th best has a 4% chance, and 15th best has a 3% chance. I'd argue that having Jamal in 2020 increased our chances at most 1% (10th best without to 7th best with).

I honestly think the main reason his value is questioned is because of his injury. But that can happen to any player.

I agree with this, with the only caveat being that sinking a full draft worth of capital into one player is rather putting your eggs in one basket. I'd also point out that the injury risk for a hard hitting strong safety is not some minor thing to be discounted as a fluke.

And if the team builds on what it did last year, improves on offense and clicks on defense with Jamal as the xfactor making the whole thing go, PC and JS will look brilliant again for the guy being in Seahawks Blue.

If we look good this year it is far more likely to be due to our high draft capital the last two off-seasons as a result of the Russ trade, overcoming the lack of draft capital caused by the Jamal trade.

 

[keasley45]

The question here is how much Jamal elevated our chances. We can probably agree that it's more complicated than binary "non-contender" or "contender" buckets. In a typical season, the strongest team has something like a 10% chance to win the Super Bowl, 7th best has a 5% chance, 10th best has a 4% chance, and 15th best has a 3% chance. I'd argue that having Jamal in 2020 increased our chances at most 1% (10th best without to 7th best with).

...

If we look good this year it is far more likely to be due to our high draft capital the last two off-seasons as a result of the Russ trade, overcoming the lack of draft capital caused by the Jamal trade.

I think the folks who are critical of what we gave up think the same. The truth is that again, Seattle didnt trade for a safety. They traded for a game changing piece on their defense.

And i dont know how you arrive at the conclusion that he only elevated our chances 1%? The dude WAS the defense his first year here. He made highlight reel / game affecting plays every week and along the way, set the league record for sacks by a safety. He was also tops in TFL, and had quite a few critical pass break-ups.

Its hard to say that if we are better this year that it will be a result of draft capital when the defensive philosophy is in part a result of acquiring Adams. Hurtt has said it. Pete has said it. Jamal was central to the scheme working last year. Without him, they couldnt accomplish what they intended. Its akin to the Pack losing Rodgers when he went down a few years ago. The offense barely functioned. When a player is so entirely responsible for unlocking the potential of an entire side of the ball, being without him is crippling. So will the defense that they want to run (designed to maximize/leverage his skillset) be better with better pieces around him? Sure. But to say its because of the talent and less him, ignores his significance.

 

[jammerhawk]

There are few here that have ever thought the team didn’t overpay for Adams. Thing is they needed a SS and it was then overpay or don’t get. Upon reflection I suspect they might not do this deal now, we need to remember he was a constant Pro Bowl level player up to and including his first season here. So he got hurt, that happens.

This doesn’t mean he isn’t a very good player, when healthy. Sadly the later has been a problem for him as he’s been snakebit with some nasty injuries. In result the return on the trade has been less than hoped for, but he still may prove his worth.

In all we can grumble, but it certainly isn’t the case he he not a very good player. The fair grumble is he hasn’t returned the value hoped for, yet.

 

[pmedic920]

Once again the Adams haters can’t resist to throw rocks. Undoubtedly he was an expensive addition and has underplayed his contract b/c he can't stay on the field

Players get hurt all the time. Regrettably it sucks when a very good player gets hurt and his significant contract is unproductive. For sure it is true he has been snakebite with unusual injuries. When he does return I suspect some of the haters will be pleased and surprised with what he brings to the table.

Many here don’t think Adams is a good player, they reinvent history b/c he has a recent injury history. In case some don't know he did set an NFL record for sacks by a DB with 9 in the first season he played here. He is a very good blitzer, and a sure tackler.

Kinda reminds me of JJ Watt.
He had a couple of very serious injuries that sidelined him.
Up until he left Houston I never heard a Texans fan hating on him.
I suppose the situation is a lot different in that they didn’t trade for Watt.

If Adams was healthy and we were able to use his talent the deal would 100% be worth it IMO.
I do hope he gets back and stays on the field for a Season.

Edit: never paid much attention to what Cardinal fans thought of him. (Watt)

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I think most of us recognize the potential.

The word potential should be reserved for young players, not broken safeties who have been in the league almost 7 years.

So I think you're mistaking apathy from fans who have already moved on with patience.

 

[chris98251]

Safeties are a position that if you don't hear a name you forget their importance, teams won't go after a good one but not great one much and they are obscure. Great ones, well Kam, Easley, Reed, Polamalu, Lynch, Lott, are the enforcer types that set attitude and a no trespassing sign on the field, they are more rare and I think unless you have one to be a highlight reel participant most are quietly doing their jobs.

Now if you don't have a good to great one, well then you get gashed in the run, gashed by the slot, gashed by TE's.

 

[pmedic920]

The word potential should be reserved for young players, not broken safeties who have been in the league almost 7 years.

So I think you're mistaking apathy from fans who have already moved on with patience.

If you don’t recognize the potential of having a Healthy Adam’s on the field that’s perfectly acceptable in my book.

I’m not talking specifically about his potential, I’m talking about the potential of our entire defense with Adams healthy and on the field.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

If you don’t recognize the potential of having a Healthy Adam’s on the field that’s perfectly acceptable in my book.

I’m not talking specifically about his potential, I’m talking about the potential of our entire defense with Adams healthy and on the field.

I recognize potential, but only realistic potential.

Adams has missed 24 games in the past three seasons, so if he somehow gets healthy and in shape enough to step on the field again and actually contributes for more than a couple games before getting hurt again? Potential isn't the word, miracle is the word you're looking for.

I never agree with Fade, but he's right, Adam's should have been cut June 1st. I guess Pete's worried about how messy that'd be and what that'd do to the locker room. Idk. But you and other fans continue to hold out hope that he'll come back and play well is false hope.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And fans like you shooting down every bit of hope someone might have is typical. It goes both ways.
He's 27 years old and you're acting like he's 35.

 

[pmedic920]

I recognize potential, but only realistic potential.

Adams has missed 24 games in the past three seasons, so if he somehow gets healthy and in shape enough to step on the field again and actually contributes for more than a couple games before getting hurt again? Potential isn't the word, miracle is the word you're looking for.

I never agree with Fade, but he's right, Adam's should have been cut June 1st. I guess Pete's worried about how messy that'd be and what that'd do to the locker room. Idk. But you and other fans continue to hold out hope that he'll come back and play well is false hope.

Well maybe you should research a bit, and take a look at what he’s doing to heal, and get back to football.

It’s my opinion that even if he only gets back to say 90% he’s still better than a lot of players at his position.

I’ve already stated that I have a nightmare vision of him getting back for a couple games only to suffer another injury.

Fact is, the team has made the decision to ride with Adams and are giving him every chance they can. As fans it’s my opinion that we should be pulling for him, because frankly it’s our only hope in this scenario.
He either gets healthy and contributes to our team on the field, or he gets healthy enough that we get something in return as a trade.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda is not the reality.

I’m gunna stand my ground, recognize the potential, and hope for the best.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Well maybe you should research a bit, and take a look at what he’s doing to heal, and get back to football.

Lol. Ok Dr. Medic.

Name me one player who's entire game is predicated on his hitting and aggressiveness who has come back even remotely resembling his former self from a torn labrum and grade one quad tendon tear.

Even before the quad tear Adams was arm tackling and making business decisions at the goal line pulling up and not hitting guys.

But it's cool. I hope you're right, but we've now spent the better part of three years on hoping Adams heals up. But that's all it is, hope.

 

[pmedic920]

Lol. Ok Dr. Medic.

Name me one player who's entire game is predicated on his hitting and aggressiveness who has come back even remotely resembling his former self from a torn labrum and grade one quad tendon tear.

Even before the quad tear Adams was arm tackling and making business decisions at the goal line pulling up and not hitting guys.

But it's cool. I hope you're right, but we've now spent the better part of three years on hoping Adams heals up. But that's all it is, hope.

It’s not a “you win, I lose” argument, and it’s unfortunate that you seem to think it is.

It’s a matter of understanding that as a team and fans we are “locked in” at this point.

I choose to hope for his recovery and recognize the potential of having him back, you choose otherwise.

We would not even be interacting on this had you not felt the need to come at me for my use of the word “potential”.

You fan your way, and I’ll fan my way. Neither “way” is what makes us good or bad people.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It’s not a “you win, I lose” argument, and it’s unfortunate that you seem to think it is.

It’s a matter of understanding that as a team and fans we are “locked in” at this point.

I choose to hope for his recovery and recognize the potential of having him back, you choose otherwise.

We would not even be interacting on this had you not felt the need to come at me for my use of the word “potential”.

You fan your way, and I’ll fan my way. Neither “way” is what makes us good or bad people.

Maybe don't tell other fans how to fan and use insulting terms like "do my research" like I don't understand the injury situation, and I won't be negative towards your unrealistic opinions.

I have realistic hope for a lot of Hawk topics. I like our chances, I love how Geno's playing, I think we just had the greatest back to back drafts in team history, on and on.

But sorry, realism takes a firm hold of my hope for this specific topic.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

You're doing the same thing you're complaining about. You're telling someone how to fan. Congrats.
Maybe worry about yourself and stop worrying about someone else having hope? How is it impacting you?
If someone doesn't see how damn good Adams is when he's on the field, they clearly just don't watch football.

 

[pmedic920]

Maybe don't tell other fans how to fan and use insulting terms like "do my research" like I don't understand the injury situation, and I won't be negative towards your unrealistic opinions.

I have realistic hope for a lot of Hawk topics. I like our chances, I love how Geno's playing, I think we just had the greatest back to back drafts in team history, on and on.

But sorry, realism takes a firm hold of my hope for this specific topic.

The “realism” you speak of is NOT fact. It’s nothing more than your opinion.

If you’re insulted by me suggesting that you do a bit of research understand that insulting you was not my intention.

Again, this dialogue would not be taking place had you not come at me for my use of a single word. “Potential”