Pope cut

[Chapow]

...remember the reason they drafted Lockett was to be a return guy hoping he could learn the WR spot.

OK, I'm sorry, but that statement is just flat out asinine.

Of course every player going from college to the NFL has a lot to learn, but Lockett was not just an excellent returner in college, he was also an exceptional WR. He had over 100 receptions for over 1500 yards and 11 TDs as a senior and his junior year was almost as good.

They did not expect him to be a guy that was going to contribute much as a WR with Kearse, Baldwin and Richardson as the first three, they stated he surprised them and pushed his way to playing time. He did the rest.

Uh huh. So you're telling me that they drafted an incredibly productive receiver from a power 5 conference in the 3rd round and didn't think he could or would contribute much as a WR? And that makes sense to you?

Sorry, not buying that. At all.

 

[two dog]

Why do people on an internet message board think they know more than Pete and the rest of the coaches that are intimately involved with all the players on the roster and are highly educated on the science of Football? Yeah, I thought Pope was the shizz too... But I trust the reasoning of our coaches. They have seen his every move in Training camp. They had a reason for the move, and I trust them. Glad they don't read here for roster adjustments... Just sayin'...

May I join you in this reasoning, though I doubt I could have said it as well.

Pope WAS the shizz and a hell of a lot of fun to watch but I have to defer to
the judgment of the coaches regarding personnel decisions. They have done
pretty good so far.

 

[kearly]

I'm glad we are getting emotional over our 4th string RB and not like someone who is going to see multiple series like the 1st and 2nd string RB.

We are at this point where we can focus on depth and prepare for any pending injury. Now that our core is signed for the near term, we have less flexibility on our depth and who we can keep.

Pope flashed but not better than Rawls has last year or Michaels in the preseason.

When Michael leaves in free agency after the season, we're going to need an impact #2 RB. It's just one preseason, but Pope sure looked like that guy to me. Collins and Procise did not.

 

[TwistedHusky]

You nailed it Kearly.

It feels like whatever part of the process they used years ago, they left and started trusting their eyes/instincts/judgements now. Betting it burns them.

After guys get too much success, people start accepting all their suggestions as good - nobody points out the flaws or holes in their plan so bad plans don't get scrapped. They get implemented, and then you get crappy results.

Usually, successful people are successful because they follow successful processes, and have people around them that redirect them when they start pointing in the wrong direction. But less people question even the crazy ideas when they come from people that won before.

It is really easy to forget all the bad ideas you had in the past that other people saved you from. Much easier to remember all the great stuff you managed to come up with yourself and watch blossom.

 

[Hawkstorian]

I'll bet serious $$ he clears waivers and is not signed to our practice squad.

 

[kearly]

They know Pope did his work against fringe roster players. Fans tend to overestimate pre-season performances.

I like him a lot, but way too much hype for him on this board. He will end up on our P.S.

By this logic we should cut Joey Hunt as well. Russell Wilson won a starting job by lighting up the preseason. While it's true that you have outliers like Nick Reed, anyone with half a brain who applied the eyeball test to Reed knew that he was a preseason hero and not a serious NFL prospect. I understand why some have skepticism for Pope, but I'm comfortable with thinking he is the next Justin Forsett type of story and I really like how he fits Cable's system.

I'll bet serious $$ he clears waivers and is not signed to our practice squad.

It worked for BJ Daniels. Until some team decided to sign him. IMO, it is problematic to treat the practice squad as a roster spot as it creates a false sense of security. If you think a guy is part of your future, you protect him.

Just my own personal opinion, but there are 10 guys on the current roster I would cut in a heartbeat to sign Pope. I'll admit to being hasty, but I'm willing to go on a bit of a limb and say that Pope already looks like an NFL player to the eyeball test. Maybe Procise and Collins will be NFL players some day as well, but they haven't shown that yet. And in the case of Collins, I worry about scheme mismatch.

 

[McGruff]

They know Pope did his work against fringe roster players. Fans tend to overestimate pre-season performances.

I like him a lot, but way too much hype for him on this board. He will end up on our P.S.

By this logic we should cut Joey Hunt as well.

I'll bet serious $$ he clears waivers and is not signed to our practice squad.

It worked for BJ Daniels. Until some team decided to sign him. IMO, it is unwise to treat practice squad as a roster spot. If you think a guy is part of your future, you protect him.

I the se evaluative tool is preseason scrimmages, then perhaps we should have.

Good thing it's not.

 

[kearly]

I the se evaluative tool is preseason scrimmages, then perhaps we should have.

Good thing it's not.

With most practices being non-contact, I would guess that preseason is more than 50% of the equation. Draft bias and investment bias factor too I suppose.

 

[Chapow]

Why do people on an internet message board think they know more than Pete and the rest of the coaches that are intimately involved with all the players on the roster and are highly educated on the science of Football? Yeah, I thought Pope was the shizz too... But I trust the reasoning of our coaches. They have seen his every move in Training camp. They had a reason for the move, and I trust them. Glad they don't read here for roster adjustments... Just sayin'...

May I join you in this reasoning, though I doubt I could have said it as well.

Pope WAS the shizz and a hell of a lot of fun to watch but I have to defer to
the judgment of the coaches regarding personnel decisions. They have done
pretty good so far.

You guys are cray cray. Clearly Pete and John, and their stupid, moronic decisions, are going to be the downfall of this team. If only TwistedHusky was both GM and Head Coach we would go 19-0 every season. Unfortunately, we're stuck with PC and JS for at least a few more years.

What a disaster! We cut the wrong fringe roster guys! They may have even been active on game day every once in a while! ER MAH GERD!!!

 

[mrt144]

Why do people on an internet message board think they know more than Pete and the rest of the coaches that are intimately involved with all the players on the roster and are highly educated on the science of Football? Yeah, I thought Pope was the shizz too... But I trust the reasoning of our coaches. They have seen his every move in Training camp. They had a reason for the move, and I trust them. Glad they don't read here for roster adjustments... Just sayin'...

May I join you in this reasoning, though I doubt I could have said it as well.

Pope WAS the shizz and a hell of a lot of fun to watch but I have to defer to
the judgment of the coaches regarding personnel decisions. They have done
pretty good so far.

You guys are cray cray. Clearly Pete and John, and their stupid, moronic decisions, are going to be the downfall of this team. If only TwistedHusky was both GM and Head Coach we would go 19-0 every season. Unfortunately, we're stuck with PC and JS for at least a few more years.

What a disaster! We cut the wrong fringe roster guys! They may have even been active on game day every once in a while! ER MAH GERD!!!

Dat Carey Williams thing though.

 

[kearly]

I don't think anybody is saying that they think PCJS are morons. I think most of us would agree they are the best coach/GM duo in the NFL. For sure, if I was an NFL GM I would probably be the worst GM in the entire league. And John Schneider is the very best. He makes moves for great players that I had never even heard of! Troymane Pope among them.

What's weird is that when PCJS do rarely make a mistake, they tend to be very obvious. So it's a bit of a contradiction. That's why I view Pete as a bit of a nutty professor: 9 parts genius, 1 part crazy. And to be fair, sometimes his crazy side will pay off as well. Though that hasn't happened recently.

 

[Seafan]

Stupid choice, stupid reasoning. Can you imagine if they tried banking on this reasoning with Thomas Rawls last year?

But hey, sometimes bad choices have lucky results. I'm rooting for a lucky result.

Thomas Rawls was the 2nd string RB after preseason last year. Pope is the 5th. You can't compare.

 

[FlyingGreg]

What will be interesting to see if Collins is even active on game day. I suspect he will be.

 

[kearly]

Stupid choice, stupid reasoning. Can you imagine if they tried banking on this reasoning with Thomas Rawls last year?

But hey, sometimes bad choices have lucky results. I'm rooting for a lucky result.

Thomas Rawls was the 2nd string RB after preseason last year. Pope is the 5th. You can't compare.

The roster situations were a bit different. Michael got traded. Turbin got hurt. Rawls had one good preseason game at the end and got the nod.

Pope has outperformed what Rawls did in the 2015 preseason, but faced significant investment bias from his drafted competitors. So whereas the roster winds were at Rawls back, those winds blew against Pope.

 

[kearly]

What will be interesting to see if Collins is even active on game day. I suspect he will be.

By the sound of it, Collins was kept for roster protection purposes, not because he had earned anything. Sounds like he's being stashed, though with only 4 RBs on the roster I could see them potentially activating all four at certain points this season.

 

[FlyingGreg]

What will be interesting to see if Collins is even active on game day. I suspect he will be.

By the sound of it, Collins was kept for roster protection purposes, not because he had earned anything. Sounds like he's being stashed, though with only 4 RBs on the roster I could see them potentially activating all four at certain points this season.

Yeah the release of Tukuafu threw me off a bit. I imagine they will want 4 active.

Makes me wonder if they are looking at making Collins a FB...

I don't know, it's just weird.

 

[kearly]

Yeah the release of Tukuafu threw me off a bit. I imagine they will want 4 active.

Makes me wonder if they are looking at making Collins a FB...

I don't know, it's just weird.

That's an interesting thought. You never know with Pete.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

Why do people on an internet message board think they know more than Pete and the rest of the coaches that are intimately involved with all the players on the roster and are highly educated on the science of Football? Yeah, I thought Pope was the shizz too... But I trust the reasoning of our coaches. They have seen his every move in Training camp. They had a reason for the move, and I trust them. Glad they don't read here for roster adjustments... Just sayin'...

May I join you in this reasoning, though I doubt I could have said it as well.

Pope WAS the shizz and a hell of a lot of fun to watch but I have to defer to
the judgment of the coaches regarding personnel decisions. They have done
pretty good so far.

This is an appeal to authority.

PCJS are smart, not all-knowing. They make mistakes, too.

 

[FlyingGreg]

Yeah the release of Tukuafu threw me off a bit. I imagine they will want 4 active.

Makes me wonder if they are looking at making Collins a FB...

I don't know, it's just weird.

That's an interesting thought. You never know with Pete.

I guess we will see if they add a FB this week.

 

[TwistedHusky]

There is a difference between being a moron and making moronic decisions.

But I can see where concept of a spectrum between ALWAYS CORRECT and ALWAYS WRONG confuses some of you.

There was a fundamental key to the success of this team, identify undervalued assets that integrate well with the projected strategy + tactics. Because the rest of the league was focusing on other things, we were able to get these assets.

Things such as , but not limited to:

Big physical corners at a time where corners were judged more on speed.
Undersized QB
High producing RB (because the league notoriously undervalues RB right now)
Big physical safety (since it was more important a safety be fast than large)

You can go look at the approach yourself, we shot for more picks vs higher level picks because we were shooting for upside. 3 picks gone, if we get a keeper from it - that is a success.

The problem is, some of the things the NFL trended to in following our approach meant less assets that were unnoticed.

Additionally we had clear processes to bring in, identify strengths, and adapt them into our gameplan.

It is very clear from the results of these cuts we are pivoting around looking to fill holes without a clear understanding of how we are going to do it. Proof? The four LS coming in to fill a hole we should have identified + filled already. The staggering lack of CB depth. The lack of LB depth.

The fact that we seem to believe we have a big problem at safety but our best athlete from the rookies, Tanner, was not pushed into safety but WR (event with pretty suspect hands). Also McNeill, who was supposed to crosstrain into CB got moved back to CB and Farmer who also needed to be evaluated at CB was moved to RB (idiotically).

Whether corner was a position Farmer was able to play is immaterial. The team is favoring pushing offense and in doing is neglecting the defense massively. The same defense that won the GD superbowl for them in the first place.

The new move to try to push the focus to offense is pretty obvious and we are clearly going to try to shore up ST as well because pushing defense is going to be expensive/difficult. Pretty big red flag.

This team is making strategic & tactical errors that I think are the result of hubris. That counts as making moronic decisions.