Really? O Line and Wilson per Bevell.

[Siouxhawk]

Agreed that 22 Million a year is his leverage, Wilson's persona is one not to challenge openly though, why I think the general opinion is everything is fine and dandy, but going back to last year Wilson has went above Bevells head to ask Pete to run a play or two when he see's something. Now having to do that tells me that his OC and him don't see eye to eye on things if he has to go above his head. a good OC would call that play. Unless Pete has much more control of the offense then we are led to believe.

Show us a link to verify the proof of this instance please

 

[mrt144]

Yet another instance of Bevell willing to point out the weaknesses of others and still not acknowledging any of his own mistakes.

I wanted to support the guy last year, but that character trait just irritates me.

So on to his advice, is it valid?

The problem Bevell faces is he has no credibility. He might be right (I think he is but for the complete inconsistency in the quality of protection from down to down) but since he has never fixed his own failures and is barely competent - it is hard to take his criticism.

I would bet that Russ is just shaking him off, but hopefully we move to the next stage where Russ gets upset with him calling him out while consistently giving him crap playcalling to work with. Hopefully he then actively starts campaigning for a new OC.

There are three scenarios where we get a new OC, one Pete decides (unlikely as he is ridiculously if not ludicrously loyal), two Paul decides (again unlikely because Paul is pretty hands off), and finally Russ demands it. We are going to need #3 or this team isn't going to win near as much in the future, because the defense simply isn't built to carry the offense like it was able to before.

Wilson has the clout and the ability to demand a change at coordinator, and hopefully at some point Bevell will piss him off with the fingerpointing to the point he realizes he is being held back with a substandard OC.

Seeing how Russell wasn't "Pete's guy" in the draft and Bevell was handpicked by Pete, Pete might just side with Bevell because Russell has issues that a new coordinator isn't going to fix. Russell needs to be better.

How does one just get better?

Russell has access to more film than we do and he is watching and seeing everything we can see. He also has coaches pointing out the right things, so maybe he can't get better and it's time to look for a QB that can. We're seeing Russell making the same mistakes he has been making since day one and defenses have adjusted to take away what he does best. What we haven't seen is the adjustments from Russell to counter the changes in the way defenses play him. He has had plenty of opportunities to show where he has improved, but he hasn't quite made those improvements into consistencies. We see them on occasion, but he still needs to be better. I think it's coming along and there is no viable alternative, so we just have to be patient. Changing offensive coordinators isn't a good solution until Russell breaks his bad habits. Taking those bad habits to another coordinator won't help anything.

I'd settle for Bevell at least taking ownership of the idea that he can help his team be more successful than just shunting it off on execution of players.

 

[akscoundrel]

Bevells had his gaffes, as they all do, but really he's not that bad.

In most cases, the difference between a good call and a bad call, is execution. Our players aren't executing. Less focus needs to be on bevell, and more on our players not nutting up and executing.

Bevell is the popular convenient scapegoat tho. Kinda hard to swim against the current when you are a guppy, eh?

 

[aawolf]

Bevell: Russell Wilson has to “continually trust” offensive linemen


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...n-has-to-continually-trust-offensive-linemen/


This is why we can't have nice things on offense, trust is earned, you just don't give it freely especially when it's your body getting slammed to the turf by 300 pound men.

When your sacked or unable to throw 39 percent of the time that's a pretty good reason to say I don't trust them.

I think Bevell is a clown but he's right, Russell bails on a clean pocket a lot of times at the smallest hint of pressure.

That in itself is alarming though, I think most of it comes as a result of taking a ton of hits already in his career. This is what happened to the likes of Tim Couch, David Carr and most recently RG3.

Case in point though, if Russell steps into the pocket on this.. game over, we win.

Umm, looks to me like Wilson narrowly avoided two sacks on that play and got the ball out. Given, he didn't see Baldwin wide open, but if he leads Locket a little more on that throw, its a TD. He under threw that ball amid a big hit.

 

[Popeyejones]

I think Bevell is a clown but he's right, Russell bails on a clean pocket a lot of times at the smallest hint of pressure.

Case in point though, if Russell steps into the pocket on this.. game over, we win.

This is a good example, as it's also an example of Wilson taking a big hit that's his own damn fault.

Nowak set up well for the interior stunt, but Wilson needlessly bouncing around frees up Nowak's man to outmaneuver him while he's setting up. If Wilson just steps into the natural space that developed in the pocket Nowak's got great positioning and can make the block, but instead the natural disadvantage he has against the DL (having to protect what he can't see behind him) gets maximized due to Wilson and the DT gets a free shot on him.

This is a good clip for why unpredictable mobile QBs like Wilson end up taking a lot of sacks, and also tend to make their Olineman's life hell when pass blocking.

I know a lot of people don't want to hear it, but this is basically just a clip of Wilson creating two separate interior protection breakdowns that he then has to deal with.

 

[davidonmi]

Maybe he should call better plays

 

[mrt144]

I feel like that clip is going to be the zapruder film on why Wilson won't ever be as good as he could be. Like, going forward someone will just buzz a Wilson centric thread with that gif.

 

[rideaducati]

I think Bevell is a clown but he's right, Russell bails on a clean pocket a lot of times at the smallest hint of pressure.

Case in point though, if Russell steps into the pocket on this.. game over, we win.

This is a good example, as it's also an example of Wilson taking a big hit that's his own damn fault.

Nowak set up well for the interior stunt, but Wilson needlessly bouncing around frees up Nowak's man to outmaneuver him while he's setting up. If Wilson just steps into the natural space that developed in the pocket Nowak's got great positioning and can make the block, but instead the natural disadvantage he has against the DL (having to protect what he can't see behind him) gets maximized due to Wilson and the DT gets a free shot on him.

This is a good clip for why unpredictable mobile QBs like Wilson end up taking a lot of sacks, and also tend to make their Olineman's life hell when pass blocking.

I know a lot of people don't want to hear it, but this is basically just a clip of Wilson creating two separate interior protection breakdowns that he then has to deal with.

Russell "needlessly" created those protection breakdowns. He is an accurate passer that refuses to THROW THE DAMN BALL. It is so frustrating to watch him doing his best Tarvaris Jackson impressions all game long.

 

[Popeyejones]

I feel like that clip is going to be the zapruder film on why Wilson won't ever be as good as he could be. Like, going forward someone will just buzz a Wilson centric thread with that gif.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

TBF I truly think that this is development. People want the development of skills to not be a little painful in the process, and that's just not how it works.

Put another way, what were seeing from Wilson in that clip is IMO actually improvement. The Wilson from last year or the year before would likely have never even ended up in the pocket to begin with. Regardless of pressure or not at three seconds he would have just bailed horizontally from above the pocket, or just started heading backwards. In this one he's clearly intending to knife through it, but at least while causing protection breakdowns within it he didn't just bail on it entirely.

It sounds a little catty when you say it, but seriously, this is something he's working on. He still created his own problems for himself in that clip, but I honestly believe it's a step in the right direction for him. It's easy to talk about how masterful guys like Brady, Manning, and Brees are at manipulating the pocket, but you gotta remember that they all have around 15 years of NFL-level practice with doing so.

 

[Popeyejones]

Russell "needlessly" created those protection breakdowns. He is an accurate passer that refuses to THROW THE DAMN BALL. It is so frustrating to watch him doing his best Tarvaris Jackson impressions all game long.

Yeah, the other part of the problem is that in bouncing around like a crazy person he's not only causing multiple protection breakdowns, but also doesn't have his feet set, so he can't even throw the damn ball if he wants to, and even if he wanted to, can't throw it to the right place because what he's doing futzes everything up so he can't even go through his progressions.

I think the craziest part is that in that .gif the Bengals had a massive coverage breakdown. Wilson's read was actually the right read, but his feet aren't set and he's about to get clobbered so he just tosses up a floater that gets defensed whereas if his feet were set and he had relied on his protection it should have been a TD.

(not sure which WR that is, but he's even waving at Wilson to get his attention before the duck gets lobbed up to him).

 

[Seafan]

Nonsense. He stays in the pocket too long. That's too much trust in his OL and his own eyes.

 

[scutterhawk]

I must be the only one that kind of agrees with Bevell. Wilson likes to scramble and leave the pocket too early. The line is young, yes. But when Wilson scrambles to one side, he doesn't see one of his WR's open on the side his back is facing.

The amount of sacks Wilson has accrued is due to the line being young and gaining chemistry. The more chemistry and experience the line has they will learn to become better blockers and have more endurance to protect Wilson.

In my opinion, Wilson's scrambling creates pressure on the line to block the direction he is going, and that creates a mis-match for the opposing d-line because the line doesn't know where Wilson is going, they are blocking him, but the defensive linemen know where he's going and can expose the young line with the pressuring.

I don't agree for one very legitimate reason.
It takes a certain amount of time for Bevell's routes to develop, and some of his play calls are maybe designed for some quick passes, but because of an all too often break down in pocket protection, Wilson is paying the price by either being immediately pressured, or hammered within one and a half seconds.
Pretty easy to say that all he has to do is step up into the pocket, but there's been a LOT of times, that that "Pocket" has been nonexistent, so what do some of Y'all expect Wilson to do.
Keeping in mind, that RW is being pressured, hit, and sacked more that any other Quarterback in the League, and he's suppose to "Trust"?, yeah, okay, it isn't Tom Cable's nor Darryl Bevell's asses being drilled into the ground.
You keep making the O-Line your least of priorities, along with no Marshawn Lynch to help Wilson?, you need your high octane, high dollar Defen$e to make up for your suspect O-Line.

 

[rideaducati]

I must be the only one that kind of agrees with Bevell. Wilson likes to scramble and leave the pocket too early. The line is young, yes. But when Wilson scrambles to one side, he doesn't see one of his WR's open on the side his back is facing.

The amount of sacks Wilson has accrued is due to the line being young and gaining chemistry. The more chemistry and experience the line has they will learn to become better blockers and have more endurance to protect Wilson.

In my opinion, Wilson's scrambling creates pressure on the line to block the direction he is going, and that creates a mis-match for the opposing d-line because the line doesn't know where Wilson is going, they are blocking him, but the defensive linemen know where he's going and can expose the young line with the pressuring.

I don't agree for one very legitimate reason.
It takes a certain amount of time for Bevell's routes to develop, and some of his play calls are maybe designed for some quick passes, but because of an all too often break down in pocket protection, Wilson is paying the price by either being immediately pressured, or hammered within one and a half seconds.
Pretty easy to say that all he has to do is step up into the pocket, but there's been a LOT of times, that that "Pocket" has been nonexistent, so what do some of Y'all expect Wilson to do.
Keeping in mind, that RW is being pressured, hit, and sacked more that any other Quarterback in the League, and he's suppose to "Trust"?, yeah, okay, it isn't Tom Cable's nor Darryl Bevell's asses being drilled into the ground.
You keep making the O-Line your least of priorities, along with no Marshawn Lynch to help Wilson?, you need your high octane, high dollar Defen$e to make up for your suspect O-Line.

Russell had two guys open when he does his first hop. If he trusted either receiver and anticipated with any ability, he throws a completion and isn't even close to being hit.

 

[mrt144]

And yet he showed that poise and anticipation on the ADB TD in the Lions game. So it's not like it's completely absent.

 

[scutterhawk]

I must be the only one that kind of agrees with Bevell. Wilson likes to scramble and leave the pocket too early. The line is young, yes. But when Wilson scrambles to one side, he doesn't see one of his WR's open on the side his back is facing.

The amount of sacks Wilson has accrued is due to the line being young and gaining chemistry. The more chemistry and experience the line has they will learn to become better blockers and have more endurance to protect Wilson.

In my opinion, Wilson's scrambling creates pressure on the line to block the direction he is going, and that creates a mis-match for the opposing d-line because the line doesn't know where Wilson is going, they are blocking him, but the defensive linemen know where he's going and can expose the young line with the pressuring.

Do you blame Wilson for occasionally leaving the pocket a little early? He doesn't have a choice 40% of the time as his line completely collapses. This is why I can never agree with Bevell on this. So does Wilson leave early sometimes? Of course. Is it his fault? Not really. This just fits into Bevell's reputation of never taking personal accountability for any problems on offense.

The line did play better against the Bengals. If they can keep it up I would guess RW will slowly start to trust them more.

Agreed.
Also, something to bear in mind?, how much does having a healthy Marshawn Lynch back to help Wilson in delivering that one two punch, help to mask for shitty O-Line protection, eh Bevell?
Cable has come right out and said that Wilson needs Lynch, & Lynch needs Wilson, I think that Bevell & Cable are the one's that need those two the most, if only to keep their jobs with the Seahawks.

 

[Popeyejones]

And yet he showed that poise and anticipation on the ADB TD in the Lions game. So it's not like it's completely absent.

Yep. I'm a 9ers fan, an even I don't want to just bash the guy. :lol:

IMO he's shown more development in this area during these first five games than he's ever shown so far in his career. He's still got a ways to go and he may never get all the way there, but again, development is a process, and can lead to some pretty ugly outcomes in that process. There's just no way to avoid it. It's how you get better.

 

[scutterhawk]

I must be the only one that kind of agrees with Bevell. Wilson likes to scramble and leave the pocket too early. The line is young, yes. But when Wilson scrambles to one side, he doesn't see one of his WR's open on the side his back is facing.

The amount of sacks Wilson has accrued is due to the line being young and gaining chemistry. The more chemistry and experience the line has they will learn to become better blockers and have more endurance to protect Wilson.

In my opinion, Wilson's scrambling creates pressure on the line to block the direction he is going, and that creates a mis-match for the opposing d-line because the line doesn't know where Wilson is going, they are blocking him, but the defensive linemen know where he's going and can expose the young line with the pressuring.

I don't agree for one very legitimate reason.
It takes a certain amount of time for Bevell's routes to develop, and some of his play calls are maybe designed for some quick passes, but because of an all too often break down in pocket protection, Wilson is paying the price by either being immediately pressured, or hammered within one and a half seconds.
Pretty easy to say that all he has to do is step up into the pocket, but there's been a LOT of times, that that "Pocket" has been nonexistent, so what do some of Y'all expect Wilson to do.
Keeping in mind, that RW is being pressured, hit, and sacked more that any other Quarterback in the League, and he's suppose to "Trust"?, yeah, okay, it isn't Tom Cable's nor Darryl Bevell's asses being drilled into the ground.
You keep making the O-Line your least of priorities, along with no Marshawn Lynch to help Wilson?, you need your high octane, high dollar Defen$e to make up for your suspect O-Line.

Russell had two guys open when he does his first hop. If he trusted either receiver and anticipated with any ability, he throws a completion and isn't even close to being hit.

There is a lot of inconsistency in some of those guys getting "Open", AND, it's pretty easy to see those sporadically open Receivers, they may be open because of a route that they've broken off, and not where Russ is expecting them to be.
Easy to speculate from a birds eye camera, after a rerun on a play, but at field level, in real speed?, yeah.

 

[scutterhawk]

And yet he showed that poise and anticipation on the ADB TD in the Lions game. So it's not like it's completely absent.

Yep. I'm a 9ers fan, an even I don't want to just bash the guy. :lol:

IMO he's shown more development in this area during these first five games than he's ever shown so far in his career. He's still got a ways to go and he may never get all the way there, but again, development is a process, and can lead to some pretty ugly outcomes in that process. There's just no way to avoid it. It's how you get better.

Yep. ^
With all the comings and goings of O-Line players, along with what your Coaching staff wants from you, that development can be ever changing.
Another huge alteration in development that Wilson will eventually have to make, is when Marshawn Lynch decides to call it quits.

 

[rideaducati]

I must be the only one that kind of agrees with Bevell. Wilson likes to scramble and leave the pocket too early. The line is young, yes. But when Wilson scrambles to one side, he doesn't see one of his WR's open on the side his back is facing.

The amount of sacks Wilson has accrued is due to the line being young and gaining chemistry. The more chemistry and experience the line has they will learn to become better blockers and have more endurance to protect Wilson.

In my opinion, Wilson's scrambling creates pressure on the line to block the direction he is going, and that creates a mis-match for the opposing d-line because the line doesn't know where Wilson is going, they are blocking him, but the defensive linemen know where he's going and can expose the young line with the pressuring.

I don't agree for one very legitimate reason.
It takes a certain amount of time for Bevell's routes to develop, and some of his play calls are maybe designed for some quick passes, but because of an all too often break down in pocket protection, Wilson is paying the price by either being immediately pressured, or hammered within one and a half seconds.
Pretty easy to say that all he has to do is step up into the pocket, but there's been a LOT of times, that that "Pocket" has been nonexistent, so what do some of Y'all expect Wilson to do.
Keeping in mind, that RW is being pressured, hit, and sacked more that any other Quarterback in the League, and he's suppose to "Trust"?, yeah, okay, it isn't Tom Cable's nor Darryl Bevell's asses being drilled into the ground.
You keep making the O-Line your least of priorities, along with no Marshawn Lynch to help Wilson?, you need your high octane, high dollar Defen$e to make up for your suspect O-Line.

Russell had two guys open when he does his first hop. If he trusted either receiver and anticipated with any ability, he throws a completion and isn't even close to being hit.

There is a lot of inconsistency in some of those guys getting "Open", AND, it's pretty easy to see those sporadically open Receivers, they may be open because of a route that they've broken off, and not where Russ is expecting them to be.
Easy to speculate from a birds eye camera, after a rerun on a play, but at field level, in real speed?, yeah.

I do understand all that, it's just irritating to watch Russell holding the ball, running around and taking sacks for the majority of every game and then watch him hit a switch and suddenly be able to hit his back foot on his drops and release the ball quickly and on time for completions while moving right down the field in a two minute drill. He should be doing that all game long, but instead he is looking for "something better".

 

[HawkFan72]

Fine. Make Wilson sit in the pocket, trust his O-line, and let's see how it works out.

I think we may be in the hunt for a new QB after the game once Wilson is pronounced dead, but at least we can put an end to this thought that the O-line is anywhere close to capable.