Some more SB49 last play talk

[TeamoftheCentury]

I think there' too much focus on that play call, when the real mistakes Seattle made were with time management - the 2 TO's they burned needlessly, and also letting the whole play clock run down on that last play. They appeared to be more concerned with leaving Brady as little time as possible rather than how to get into the ez, and leaving themselves only 26 seconds forced them to think pass on 2nd down. If they run and fail, they have to use their final TO with 18-20 secs left, which is not really enough time to run it twice more.

It also needs to be said that a Lynch run from the 1 was no gimme. It was a full yard, the Pats had 8 jumbos in there, and they had stuffed Lynch a couple of times on short yardage plays earlier. Just because Lynch got 4 on the previous play against a different personnel group didn't mean squat against the new group that came out for 2nd down. That was not a good matchup for the Hawks to run with the personnel that were on the field.

Lynch would have scored. There is not enough focus on that play call. Belichick would have looked like a bum for not calling time out if the right play is called and Lynch takes it in. Both coaches made mistakes.

Patriots fans don't want it to be about that 1 play call because they know it really did come down to that and the game going their way was more a fluke than anything because of it. I can understand wanting the attention on what they did well or how they think they could have stopped the Seahawks otherwise vs. everyone pretty much knowing that because the Seahawks made a monumental mistake the game was essentially given away at the end.

I'm getting bombarded with this and have not found one knowledgeable football person (or any fan of any other team other than the Patriots - and I have little personal contact with other Seahawks fans) say anything different than that. Patriots fans don't need to feel the need to justify anything here. They got the Super Bowl. It's not fun to re-hash it as a Seahawks fan, but I'm no fool that is going to say, "Oh, well they probably would have lost no matter what the play call was." That's lunacy. The Seahawks had it right there for the taking and just flat out blew a most certain opportunity for a repeat championship. That's precisely why we're being reminded of it incessantly.

It's the first thing brought up in person by any Patriots fan, but then they want to explain it away in their favor in any possible scenario.

I never said "no matter what the play call". From the 1 there were play calls that could have worked. But handing it to Lynch wasn't one of them, once the dye was cast with those personnel groupings. Patriots were going to stuff that with 8 DL's and 3 CB's, Carroll knew it, and went with a pass. Calls are about odds and percentages, and a run was too risky as Carroll plainly said post game. And Lynch wasn't exactly running wild that night, he had a couple of decent runs, but also was stuffed on a couple of big 3rd downs.

Other posters have mentioned the Pats were low or last in goal line stops. Here's 2 reasons that wasn't relevant at that point:
- I can hardly recall 5x all season there was an opponent's run from the 1, so the sample size of those stats is very small
- NE's dline was in flux much of the season. Wilfork was coming back from an Achilles. Siliga missed 8 weeks. Alan Branch was picked up in mid-year. All of those guys are in the 340 range and were playing very well at the end of the year. All were on the field for that final play.

You misunderstood me. It wasn't completely out of the realm of possibility they fail to score running a guy named BEASTMODE, just that it was a high probability the Seahawks score. My focus is on the call and the mishandling of the given situation.

I agree with what Cris Collinsworth said after the play. You go with the player the team rode to get there and not get cute with the play call in such a crucial moment. Punch it in with Lynch. (If the Patriots can stop you... you tip your hat.) Just don't lose the Super Bowl the way they did.

Lynch would have bull-dozed into the end zone (or they would have pushed him in if the Patriots stood him up. Seahawks fans have seen that numerous times this year.) Nothing against the Patriots defense, but we heard the same thing about heavy's like Pot Roast Knighton last year.

The Patriots and their fans breathed a huge sigh of relief that the Seahawks chose poorly. You would have to be completely dishonest to suggest otherwise.

 

[cjski]

Mick063:

LOL! Nice job not addressing the gist of my comment.

For what it's worth, Russell is a fine running quarterback, who, barring injury, may develop into an actual top flight passing QB someday. But at this time he isn't close to Romo's level.

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

Mick063:

LOL! Nice job not addressing the gist of my comment.

For what it's worth, Russell is a fine running quarterback, who, barring injury, may develop into an actual top flight passing QB someday. But at this time he isn't close to Romo's level.

:shock:

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

Mick063:

LOL! Nice job not addressing the gist of my comment.

For what it's worth, Russell is a fine running quarterback, who, barring injury, may develop into an actual top flight passing QB someday. But at this time he isn't close to Romo's level.

:snack:

 

[50yrpatsfan]

I think there' too much focus on that play call, when the real mistakes Seattle made were with time management - the 2 TO's they burned needlessly, and also letting the whole play clock run down on that last play. They appeared to be more concerned with leaving Brady as little time as possible rather than how to get into the ez, and leaving themselves only 26 seconds forced them to think pass on 2nd down. If they run and fail, they have to use their final TO with 18-20 secs left, which is not really enough time to run it twice more.

It also needs to be said that a Lynch run from the 1 was no gimme. It was a full yard, the Pats had 8 jumbos in there, and they had stuffed Lynch a couple of times on short yardage plays earlier. Just because Lynch got 4 on the previous play against a different personnel group didn't mean squat against the new group that came out for 2nd down. That was not a good matchup for the Hawks to run with the personnel that were on the field.

Lynch would have scored. There is not enough focus on that play call. Belichick would have looked like a bum for not calling time out if the right play is called and Lynch takes it in. Both coaches made mistakes.

Patriots fans don't want it to be about that 1 play call because they know it really did come down to that and the game going their way was more a fluke than anything because of it. I can understand wanting the attention on what they did well or how they think they could have stopped the Seahawks otherwise vs. everyone pretty much knowing that because the Seahawks made a monumental mistake the game was essentially given away at the end.

I'm getting bombarded with this and have not found one knowledgeable football person (or any fan of any other team other than the Patriots - and I have little personal contact with other Seahawks fans) say anything different than that. Patriots fans don't need to feel the need to justify anything here. They got the Super Bowl. It's not fun to re-hash it as a Seahawks fan, but I'm no fool that is going to say, "Oh, well they probably would have lost no matter what the play call was." That's lunacy. The Seahawks had it right there for the taking and just flat out blew a most certain opportunity for a repeat championship. That's precisely why we're being reminded of it incessantly.

It's the first thing brought up in person by any Patriots fan, but then they want to explain it away in their favor in any possible scenario.

I never said "no matter what the play call". From the 1 there were play calls that could have worked. But handing it to Lynch wasn't one of them, once the dye was cast with those personnel groupings. Patriots were going to stuff that with 8 DL's and 3 CB's, Carroll knew it, and went with a pass. Calls are about odds and percentages, and a run was too risky as Carroll plainly said post game. And Lynch wasn't exactly running wild that night, he had a couple of decent runs, but also was stuffed on a couple of big 3rd downs.

Other posters have mentioned the Pats were low or last in goal line stops. Here's 2 reasons that wasn't relevant at that point:
- I can hardly recall 5x all season there was an opponent's run from the 1, so the sample size of those stats is very small
- NE's dline was in flux much of the season. Wilfork was coming back from an Achilles. Siliga missed 8 weeks. Alan Branch was picked up in mid-year. All of those guys are in the 340 range and were playing very well at the end of the year. All were on the field for that final play.

You misunderstood me. It wasn't completely out of the realm of possibility they fail to score running a guy named BEASTMODE, just that it was a high probability the Seahawks score. My focus is on the call and the mishandling of the given situation.

I agree with what Cris Collinsworth said after the play. You go with the player the team rode to get there and not get cute with the play call in such a crucial moment. Punch it in with Lynch. (If the Patriots can stop you... you tip your hat.) Just don't lose the Super Bowl the way they did.
Lynch would have bull-dozed into the end zone (or they would have pushed him in if the Patriots stood him up. Seahawks fans have seen that numerous times this year.) Nothing against the Patriots defense, but we heard the same thing about heavy's like Pot Roast Knighton last year.
The Patriots and their fans breathed a huge sigh of relief that the Seahawks chose poorly. You would have to be completely dishonest to suggest otherwise.[/quote]


I see your point - ride your best horse - but Carroll/Bevell's job there is to call the highest percentage play. Fans would have been very unhappy if Beast is stopped there and they're forced to use their last TO and forced to pass on 3rd. Collingsworth did everyone a big disservice by criticizing the call so much at that point, he's no coach or strategist.

Everyone was thinking of the 1st down play where Lynch picked up a pretty easy 4, so it was easy to picture him barreling in the for the last 1. But with a whole different defensive alignment on the field, it was a low percentage play with bad consequences if it failed. Now if they'd done something to get Wilson out in space, that would've been more dangerous to NE I think.

 

[kpak76]

Mick063:

LOL! Nice job not addressing the gist of my comment.

For what it's worth, Russell is a fine running quarterback, who, barring injury, may develop into an actual top flight passing QB someday. But at this time he isn't close to Romo's level.

Lol just stop it. You obviously have watched like 1 or 2 Seahahwks games and you want to throw out how smart you are based on that "evidence". Basically stop showing us how ignorant you are!!!

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

I see your point - ride your best horse - but Carroll/Bevell's job there is to call the highest percentage play. Fans would have been very unhappy if Beast is stopped there and they're forced to use their last TO and forced to pass on 3rd. Collingsworth did everyone a big disservice by criticizing the call so much at that point, he's no coach or strategist.

Everyone was thinking of the 1st down play where Lynch picked up a pretty easy 4, so it was easy to picture him barreling in the for the last 1. But with a whole different defensive alignment on the field, it was a low percentage play with bad consequences if it failed. Now if they'd done something to get Wilson out in space, that would've been more dangerous to NE I think.

Thanks for trying to understand and see the point. Soooo, now we're back where I started. Percentage plays apply moreso in the regular season. They might have a high percentage of effectiveness (high reward), but also carry with it high risk. Throwing that ball in the middle like that where it can get tipped or whatever... NOT a good play call when the Championship is on the line. WAY too risky. Arizona did it against Pittsburgh in that Super Bowl, but before halftime.

Like I said, the entire thing was bungled from time management on. Coaches can't over-think in that moment and put the cart before the horse (worry about leaving time for Brady.) Must take care of business, first and foremost.

Sure, fans are always disappointed when the team loses. But, couldn't fault them for going with what got ya there or a less risky pass play like you are suggesting. That's essentially the argument from everyone. That was Cris Collinsworth's argument as well. He just didn't have time to go into all the options. He said Lynch because Marshawn is a beast and he would be hungrier for that endzone at that moment than a lifetime of free skittles.