The last 30-35 yards

[Siouxhawk]

Obviously 2016 is our anomaly season with Russ's injuries and consistently poor offensive line play. The body of work since Russ has been under center is more of what I was looking at.

I will move on, but are you looking at specific data when you make your assessments about the RZ production?

I agree 2016 was negatively impacted by Russ' injuries, but they've been trending downward since 2012 (with a little bump in 2015)

2012 RzPts 5.13(5) Rz TD% .574(10)
2013 RzPts 4.98(7) Rz TD% .561(14)
2014 RzPts 4.80(14) Rz TD% .525(19)
2015 RzPts 5.02(11) Rz TD% .551(16)
2016 RzPts 4.54(23) Rz TD% .464(28)

*Reference - Football Outsiders

I hope they get back to whatever they were doing at the end of 2015 regular season, but RZ production shouldn't be left unaddressed by this coaching staff.

Considering we've been in the top 10 in total points scored in the 4 years prior to last, the deduction is we score a bunch of points from outside the 20. And that's fine. They all count. I believe we'll be back in the top 10 again this year and that bodes we'll for us.

 

[chris98251]

Our red zone offense is crap, when you have to wonder if were going to score a touchdown every time we get inside the 20 it's a problem. I put it on Bevell, Pete may say protect the ball, but Bevell designs the offense and dictates our personnel. When you have 6'7 and 6'5 TE's and WR's they need to score, there should be very few CB's and Safety's that can match up with them and should not be any LB's. We also have other guys that are long as well, Make those guys a threat and throw in Doug on quick seams and curls the defense has to respect them and pull back a bit opening up the short yardage game as well.

On defense they just shadow our guys on the outside knowing were going to a fade to Kearse or Graham and they can just face guard, yeah I know it's technically illegal but can be done if not obvious and line up front side and out stretch arms to deflect. The pass has to be perfect and timing perfect to jump up and pull it down, even then the DB can negate a catch by pushing them out before control is established or they get both feet down.

That's our problem in the Red Zone. Also if we could score more touchdowns our defense could play down hill more, we are not putting teams away and taking their heart.

All you have to do is look at the NE game last year to understand what effect that has on a team when we actually did score well, may not have been all in the red zone but as far as taking their heart, yeah....

 

[Siouxhawk]

Our red zone offense is crap, when you have to wonder if were going to score a touchdown every time we get inside the 20 it's a problem. I put it on Bevell, Pete may say protect the ball, but Bevell designs the offense and dictates our personnel. When you have 6'7 and 6'5 TE's and WR's they need to score, there should be very few CB's and Safety's that can match up with them and should not be any LB's. We also have other guys that are long as well, Make those guys a threat and throw in Doug on quick seams and curls the defense has to respect them and pull back a bit opening up the short yardage game as well.

On defense they just shadow our guys on the outside knowing were going to a fade to Kearse or Graham and they can just face guard, yeah I know it's technically illegal but can be done if not obvious and line up front side and out stretch arms to deflect. The pass has to be perfect and timing perfect to jump up and pull it down, even then the DB can negate a catch by pushing them out before control is established or they get both feet down.

That's our problem in the Red Zone. Also if we could score more touchdowns our defense could play down hill more, we are not putting teams away and taking their heart.

All you have to do is look at the NE game last year to understand what effect that has on a team when we actually did score well, may not have been all in the red zone but as far as taking their heart, yeah....

And I remember Pete disregarding whiners taking this stance when this subject was brought up last January.

The "just throw it up to the tall guys" diatribe is old, dull and useless and doesn't pay any respect to the dynamics our offense presents. And wasnt Jimmy the third-most targeted receiver on the team last year? And didn't Doug do those things you are suggesting for another breakout year?

Again, this petulance about the red zone is way too overblown and is the hook those aspiring to the Hawks being an animated Madden 2018 team hang their hats on. Anyone in their right mind knows that the Hawks continue to be a well-oiled machine that just ran into injuries and a wildly inconsistent offensive line a year ago.

 

[Jville]

A power running game helps a red zone offense. Improvement in those two aspects are among the goals for 2017.

 

[Josea16]

Our red zone offense is crap, when you have to wonder if were going to score a touchdown every time we get inside the 20 it's a problem. I put it on Bevell, Pete may say protect the ball, but Bevell designs the offense and dictates our personnel. When you have 6'7 and 6'5 TE's and WR's they need to score, there should be very few CB's and Safety's that can match up with them and should not be any LB's. We also have other guys that are long as well, Make those guys a threat and throw in Doug on quick seams and curls the defense has to respect them and pull back a bit opening up the short yardage game as well.

On defense they just shadow our guys on the outside knowing were going to a fade to Kearse or Graham and they can just face guard, yeah I know it's technically illegal but can be done if not obvious and line up front side and out stretch arms to deflect. The pass has to be perfect and timing perfect to jump up and pull it down, even then the DB can negate a catch by pushing them out before control is established or they get both feet down.

That's our problem in the Red Zone. Also if we could score more touchdowns our defense could play down hill more, we are not putting teams away and taking their heart.

All you have to do is look at the NE game last year to understand what effect that has on a team when we actually did score well, may not have been all in the red zone but as far as taking their heart, yeah....

And I remember Pete disregarding whiners taking this stance when this subject was brought up last January.

The "just throw it up to the tall guys" diatribe is old, dull and useless and doesn't pay any respect to the dynamics our offense presents. And wasnt Jimmy the third-most targeted receiver on the team last year?

Again, this petulance about the red zone is way too overblown and is the hook those aspiring to the Hawks being an animated Madden 2018 team hang their hats on. Anyone in their right mind knows that the Hawks continue to be a well-oiled machine that just ran into injuries and a wildly inconsistent offensive line a year ago.

Seriously? We are inexcusably bad in the redzone and have no excuse. Tennessee scored 72% of the time with touchdowns. Tennessee bro, they're not all that. Their issue is they can't pass the ball.

Personally? I think we need to fix our run defense.

 

[NFSeahawks]

I'm not sure I buy into all those saying this is a definite problem on Wilson's shoulders.

The playcalling is often lackluster in the redzone with repetitive plays being called that don't take advantage of our greatest playmakers.

Look at SB 49...

I rest my case, he hasn't been moved so we'll continue to see the same things.
The worst type of coach you can be is a stubborn one unwilling to adapt to the new ways of NFL defenses.

On the slight other hand I have seen Wilson miss open receivers.

 

[chris98251]

Our red zone offense is crap, when you have to wonder if were going to score a touchdown every time we get inside the 20 it's a problem. I put it on Bevell, Pete may say protect the ball, but Bevell designs the offense and dictates our personnel. When you have 6'7 and 6'5 TE's and WR's they need to score, there should be very few CB's and Safety's that can match up with them and should not be any LB's. We also have other guys that are long as well, Make those guys a threat and throw in Doug on quick seams and curls the defense has to respect them and pull back a bit opening up the short yardage game as well.

On defense they just shadow our guys on the outside knowing were going to a fade to Kearse or Graham and they can just face guard, yeah I know it's technically illegal but can be done if not obvious and line up front side and out stretch arms to deflect. The pass has to be perfect and timing perfect to jump up and pull it down, even then the DB can negate a catch by pushing them out before control is established or they get both feet down.

That's our problem in the Red Zone. Also if we could score more touchdowns our defense could play down hill more, we are not putting teams away and taking their heart.

All you have to do is look at the NE game last year to understand what effect that has on a team when we actually did score well, may not have been all in the red zone but as far as taking their heart, yeah....

And I remember Pete disregarding whiners taking this stance when this subject was brought up last January.

The "just throw it up to the tall guys" diatribe is old, dull and useless and doesn't pay any respect to the dynamics our offense presents. And wasnt Jimmy the third-most targeted receiver on the team last year?

Again, this petulance about the red zone is way too overblown and is the hook those aspiring to the Hawks being an animated Madden 2018 team hang their hats on. Anyone in their right mind knows that the Hawks continue to be a well-oiled machine that just ran into injuries and a wildly inconsistent offensive line a year ago.

Only those with blinders on whose children are named Bevell and Darrell Bevell, and Bevellina and the inability to look at teams more successful in the Red Zone and how they do it. Lets take the Patriots, the Packers for examples.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Our red zone offense is crap, when you have to wonder if were going to score a touchdown every time we get inside the 20 it's a problem. I put it on Bevell, Pete may say protect the ball, but Bevell designs the offense and dictates our personnel. When you have 6'7 and 6'5 TE's and WR's they need to score, there should be very few CB's and Safety's that can match up with them and should not be any LB's. We also have other guys that are long as well, Make those guys a threat and throw in Doug on quick seams and curls the defense has to respect them and pull back a bit opening up the short yardage game as well.

On defense they just shadow our guys on the outside knowing were going to a fade to Kearse or Graham and they can just face guard, yeah I know it's technically illegal but can be done if not obvious and line up front side and out stretch arms to deflect. The pass has to be perfect and timing perfect to jump up and pull it down, even then the DB can negate a catch by pushing them out before control is established or they get both feet down.

That's our problem in the Red Zone. Also if we could score more touchdowns our defense could play down hill more, we are not putting teams away and taking their heart.

All you have to do is look at the NE game last year to understand what effect that has on a team when we actually did score well, may not have been all in the red zone but as far as taking their heart, yeah....

And I remember Pete disregarding whiners taking this stance when this subject was brought up last January.

The "just throw it up to the tall guys" diatribe is old, dull and useless and doesn't pay any respect to the dynamics our offense presents. And wasnt Jimmy the third-most targeted receiver on the team last year?

Again, this petulance about the red zone is way too overblown and is the hook those aspiring to the Hawks being an animated Madden 2018 team hang their hats on. Anyone in their right mind knows that the Hawks continue to be a well-oiled machine that just ran into injuries and a wildly inconsistent offensive line a year ago.

Only those with blinders on whose children are named Bevell and Darrell Bevell, and Bevellina and the inability to look at teams more successful in the Red Zone and how they do it. Lets take the Patriots, the Packers for examples.

Those that are typically hyper-critical about the offensive coordinator, a coach who has been there from the beginning of the Wilson era and helped build this franchise to the level it is today, I cannot understand their motives and like our head coach, totally disregard their ramblings.

On topic, I see we were ranked 8th in red zone plays last year. So even when we're saddled by injuries and inconsistent offensive line play, we were moving the ball and scoring points via the field goal. That goes back to my original point that we're the most suited team in the league to maximize those points with our stingy defense. It's a team concept that the entire coaching staff is on board for.

Challenging that method of success is puzzling to me.

 

[Jville]

Player personnel and team philosophy define the uniqueness of each team and how they build a red zone offense. I thought everyone was cognizant of that. :229031_shrug:

 

[Siouxhawk]

I did too. We win 70 percent of the time in the Russell and salary cap era. That's an efficient mechanism.

 

[Anthony!]

Our red zone offense is crap, when you have to wonder if were going to score a touchdown every time we get inside the 20 it's a problem. I put it on Bevell, Pete may say protect the ball, but Bevell designs the offense and dictates our personnel. When you have 6'7 and 6'5 TE's and WR's they need to score, there should be very few CB's and Safety's that can match up with them and should not be any LB's. We also have other guys that are long as well, Make those guys a threat and throw in Doug on quick seams and curls the defense has to respect them and pull back a bit opening up the short yardage game as well.

On defense they just shadow our guys on the outside knowing were going to a fade to Kearse or Graham and they can just face guard, yeah I know it's technically illegal but can be done if not obvious and line up front side and out stretch arms to deflect. The pass has to be perfect and timing perfect to jump up and pull it down, even then the DB can negate a catch by pushing them out before control is established or they get both feet down.

That's our problem in the Red Zone. Also if we could score more touchdowns our defense could play down hill more, we are not putting teams away and taking their heart.

All you have to do is look at the NE game last year to understand what effect that has on a team when we actually did score well, may not have been all in the red zone but as far as taking their heart, yeah....

And I remember Pete disregarding whiners taking this stance when this subject was brought up last January.

The "just throw it up to the tall guys" diatribe is old, dull and useless and doesn't pay any respect to the dynamics our offense presents. And wasnt Jimmy the third-most targeted receiver on the team last year?

Again, this petulance about the red zone is way too overblown and is the hook those aspiring to the Hawks being an animated Madden 2018 team hang their hats on. Anyone in their right mind knows that the Hawks continue to be a well-oiled machine that just ran into injuries and a wildly inconsistent offensive line a year ago.

Seriously? We are inexcusably bad in the redzone and have no excuse. Tennessee scored 72% of the time with touchdowns. Tennessee bro, they're not all that. Their issue is they can't pass the ball.

Personally? I think we need to fix our run defense.

Tenn had one of the best olines in the league last year and that is what you all are missing the Oline all the teams that a great in the RZ have very good to great olines, we don't, Means we can't run, play action is a joke, and we can't pass protect.

 

[LolaRox]

Obviously 2016 is our anomaly season with Russ's injuries and consistently poor offensive line play. The body of work since Russ has been under center is more of what I was looking at.

I will move on, but are you looking at specific data when you make your assessments about the RZ production?

I agree 2016 was negatively impacted by Russ' injuries, but they've been trending downward since 2012 (with a little bump in 2015)

2012 RzPts 5.13(5) Rz TD% .574(10)
2013 RzPts 4.98(7) Rz TD% .561(14)
2014 RzPts 4.80(14) Rz TD% .525(19)
2015 RzPts 5.02(11) Rz TD% .551(16)
2016 RzPts 4.54(23) Rz TD% .464(28)

*Reference - Football Outsiders

I hope they get back to whatever they were doing at the end of 2015 regular season, but RZ production shouldn't be left unaddressed by this coaching staff.

Considering we've been in the top 10 in total points scored in the 4 years prior to last, the deduction is we score a bunch of points from outside the 20. And that's fine. They all count. I believe we'll be back in the top 10 again this year and that bodes we'll for us.

But this thread is specifically about the extended red zone, not total points.

I did too. We win 70 percent of the time in the Russell and salary cap era. That's an efficient mechanism.

70% is nice, but the ultimate goal is to win multiple championships. Improving red zone scoring will help.

 

[semiahmoo]

RW too short to see open receivers in red zone?

 

[Anthony!]

RW too short to see open receivers in red zone?

ukeface:

Let put this to bed with FACTS

Derek Carr is 6-2 and completed 47.8 in the redzone inside 20 but only 37 inside the 10. Rw was 42 inside 20 but 38.5 inside the 10, also 6-5 Rivers was only 44 inside the 20 so height is not the issue as I have said and shown with facts scheme and oline has been the biggest issue

 

[vin.couve12]

I think RW is pretty good at throwing fades, actually.

But at least a little bit of the RZ thing is partially due to height. People talk about his release point and all that, but it doesn't really mean as much as you might think. It has to do with vision in a more confined area and it's just the truth.

And as usual, I'll throw out the disclaimer that it doesn't mean he isn't a great QB and the fact that I also think he'll have his best year yet, just so the true zealot worshipers don't have an aneurysm.

 

[Anthony!]

I think RW is pretty good at throwing fades, actually.

But at least a little bit of the RZ thing is partially due to height. People talk about his release point and all that, but it doesn't really mean as much as you might think. It has to do with vision in a more confined area and it's just the truth.

And as usual, I'll throw out the disclaimer that it doesn't mean he isn't a great QB and the fact that I also think he'll have his best year yet, just so the true zealot worshipers don't have an aneurysm.

River 6-5 42 inside the 20, Height is not a factor or Rivers would be higher as would several other big Qbs, scheme and oline is the big facts as I have shown. PS let's not feed the trolls

 

[semiahmoo]

I think RW is pretty good at throwing fades, actually.

But at least a little bit of the RZ thing is partially due to height. People talk about his release point and all that, but it doesn't really mean as much as you might think. It has to do with vision in a more confined area and it's just the truth.

And as usual, I'll throw out the disclaimer that it doesn't mean he isn't a great QB and the fact that I also think he'll have his best year yet, just so the true zealot worshipers don't have an aneurysm.

Top notch above the rim posting.

Well done.

 

[vin.couve12]

I think RW is pretty good at throwing fades, actually.

But at least a little bit of the RZ thing is partially due to height. People talk about his release point and all that, but it doesn't really mean as much as you might think. It has to do with vision in a more confined area and it's just the truth.

And as usual, I'll throw out the disclaimer that it doesn't mean he isn't a great QB and the fact that I also think he'll have his best year yet, just so the true zealot worshipers don't have an aneurysm.

River 6-5 42 inside the 20, Height is not a factor or Rivers would be higher as would several other big Qbs, scheme and oline is the big facts as I have shown. PS let's not feed the trolls

I'm not feeding any trolls. They eat essentially anything so you don't have to worry about their diet. Especially the undead ones that just walked right over the wall rubble.

I'm sorry, but geometry is real though. Nothing can change that.

 

[adeltaY]

Seriously? We are inexcusably bad in the redzone and have no excuse. Tennessee scored 72% of the time with touchdowns. Tennessee bro, they're not all that. Their issue is they can't pass the ball.

Personally? I think we need to fix our run defense.

Not sure about that, Mariota has thrown 33 TDs to 0 INTs in the red zone thus far in his career. For what it's worth, Winston is 34/1 ... with that 1 coming at the hands of our #31 hehe.

At least this preseason, Wilson's been throwing fades too low. Kasen nabbed one for the TD, but it hit him in the stomach. Watch Rodgers in the redzone. Shoot, watch what he did to us on one of Jordy's TDs. I know the OL is much better, but I fully believe Russ is capable of being as lethal if he can extend the plays and rifle it in to an open guy. You really don't see him even attempt it, which makes me think it's a coaching thing.

Decent example @ 3:43 (not for the faint of heart, sorry to bring up this game)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DGCKMj7d1Y

Also, against the Giants @ 2:13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD8XRjYBwrA

....when the pass pro and pocket manipulation are too strong....

 

[Anthony!]

I think RW is pretty good at throwing fades, actually.

But at least a little bit of the RZ thing is partially due to height. People talk about his release point and all that, but it doesn't really mean as much as you might think. It has to do with vision in a more confined area and it's just the truth.

And as usual, I'll throw out the disclaimer that it doesn't mean he isn't a great QB and the fact that I also think he'll have his best year yet, just so the true zealot worshipers don't have an aneurysm.

Top notch above the rim posting.

Well done.

lol too bad its wrong, as I proved already but thanks