Who would you let go, Chancellor, Sherman or Thomas

[Lady Talon]

I pick Kam and Earl. Sherman is what he says he is, the greatest corner in the game, but I'd rather not combine the highest paid safety combo in the League with one of the highest paid corners. Safeties are the enablers in our defense that lets the whole unit play better. Sink around $30m into our secondary and watch our offense struggle to make league par every year after Wilson gets paid (Super Bowl, multiple Pro Bowl, his stats, even a hometown discount will be big).

I love Sherm but I love my Seahawks infinitely more. The team should 1) make sure Sherm isn't picked up by one of our NFC rivals. 2) get some value out of him while we are at the top of the game and need cheap talent. Shop him this year, I'll bet Gus Bradley will take a long hard look at paying Sherm and swapping the #3 pick for our #32. Everyone is happy. #3 pick is in the running for Jadaveon Clowney or Sammy Watkins, or schneider can turn that pick into almost double the picks we have right now and reload through the draft.

Is Maxwell better than Sherman at this point? No, however he is close enough, and usually stuck with the best WR the other team can offer because everyone throws away from Sherm. And no, Earl doesn't cheat towards Maxwell, he cheated towards Browner because everyone knew his coverage skills sucked. Maxwell's play made our already #1 pass defense better to the point of best of all time comparisons. He isn't some scrub.

 

[DavidSeven]

Is Maxwell better than Sherman at this point? No, however he is close enough, and usually stuck with the best WR the other team can offer because everyone throws away from Sherm. And no, Earl doesn't cheat towards Maxwell, he cheated towards Browner because everyone knew his coverage skills sucked. Maxwell's play made our already #1 pass defense better to the point of best of all time comparisons. He isn't some scrub.

Maxwell is not close to Sherman. Not physically. Not intellectually. He's a good player who plays good technique within the system, but he's benefiting from what Sherman and Earl bring to the table. That extends to the film room and Sherman's ability to identify route concepts and spread that info to the rest of the team. He will never be a Richard Sherman type corner without the presence of Richard Sherman.

 

[bigcc]

Jesus its just for discussions sake.

I chose releasing Sherman simply for cap reasons and Petes ability to find DB's, but if you eliminate the cap issue its easily kam... it's not the same, and its by no means a slight on kam and the mentality he brings, but I think Johnson is a starter for half the league when healthy, and the dropoff from kam-JJ isn't as large as Sherman/maxwell to maxwell/lane/draft pick.....and who knows what we have in Humble Thug.

 

[Lady Talon]

Is Maxwell better than Sherman at this point? No, however he is close enough, and usually stuck with the best WR the other team can offer because everyone throws away from Sherm. And no, Earl doesn't cheat towards Maxwell, he cheated towards Browner because everyone knew his coverage skills sucked. Maxwell's play made our already #1 pass defense better to the point of best of all time comparisons. He isn't some scrub.

Maxwell is not close to Sherman. Not physically. Not intellectually. He's a good player who plays good technique within the system, but he's benefiting from what Sherman and Earl bring to the table. That extends to the film room and Sherman's ability to identify route concepts and spread that info to the rest of the team. He will never be a Richard Sherman type corner without the presence of Richard Sherman.

Nobody is Richard Sherman. That's asinine. Sherman benefits from what Earl has done for the past 3 years. Sherm's also sat on his side of the field and benefited because teams threw their best receivers at our opposite corner more often than they challenged him.

$30m on our secondary is going to cripple us in other areas. It's like all the faith in PC and JS go down the toilet because we'll lose a great player, well other great teams have lost great people and dealt with it. Pete and his DC are always going to field a capable secondary with or without Richard Sherman.

 

[DavidSeven]

Is Maxwell better than Sherman at this point? No, however he is close enough, and usually stuck with the best WR the other team can offer because everyone throws away from Sherm. And no, Earl doesn't cheat towards Maxwell, he cheated towards Browner because everyone knew his coverage skills sucked. Maxwell's play made our already #1 pass defense better to the point of best of all time comparisons. He isn't some scrub.

Maxwell is not close to Sherman. Not physically. Not intellectually. He's a good player who plays good technique within the system, but he's benefiting from what Sherman and Earl bring to the table. That extends to the film room and Sherman's ability to identify route concepts and spread that info to the rest of the team. He will never be a Richard Sherman type corner without the presence of Richard Sherman.

Nobody is Richard Sherman. That's asinine. Sherman benefits from what Earl has done for the past 3 years. Sherm's also sat on his side of the field and benefited because teams threw their best receivers at our opposite corner more often than they challenged him.

$30m on our secondary is going to cripple us in other areas. It's like all the faith in PC and JS go down the toilet because we'll lose a great player, well other great teams have lost great people and dealt with it. Pete and his DC are always going to field a capable secondary with or without Richard Sherman.

Teams let go of great players. They don't let go of elite players in their mid-20s, unless it's by boneheaded error (e.g. Hutchinson). People like you and Ruskell thought we couldn't invest a ton of money on the left side of an O-line. How did that pan out?

And the reason why teams move their best WRs away from Sherman is because of what they see on tape. The reason why Peyton Manning, the most intelligent QB of all-time, didn't throw at Sherman but challenged Maxwell all day is because of what he saw on tape: Sherman is an elite corner; Maxwell is not.

 

[hawk45]

Richard Sherman is just as irreplaceable as Earl Thomas, and Earl benefits from Sherm just as much as Sherm benefits from Earl. Earl can play his single-high safety and cheat towards the weaker side. Without Sherman over there disappearing guys, now Earl has to commit more quickly to help, and potentially guess wrong. Leaving some not-Sherm or Bmax without help, and potentially vacating the middle too quickly as well.

Sherman benefiting from teams throwing away from him wasn't some kind of gift. That's like saying Earl benefited because teams didn't throw to the deep middle. Teams didn't test either of those guys because both of them created highlight reels for the first year or two before teams got wise.

 

[TJH]

allows Earl to cheat toward Max's side.

Earl doesn't do that. I feel like you have watched very little film of this team and are kind of making things up if I am being honest, and I don't mean to be a jerk.


Either way, we run a TON of cover 3, you don't cheat as the deep middle on cover 3 or teams will have a heyday.

 

[plyka]

He's top 10 because Sherm literally shuts down one side of the field and allows Earl to cheat toward Max's side. The only position in our secondary that is fungible is the corner position that Maxwell occupies. Without at least one true shutdown corner, the entire system evaporates.

Don't discredit what Maxwell's done please, he's an excellent cover corner, better than BB was and played excellent ball when he was in. What you're saying doesn't really even make sense so he wouldn't be as good if we didn't have Sherman? Makes no sense.

Team sports are a collective effort, especially on our defense.

If you get rid of one important piece, it makes ALL the other pieces weaker. So saying that Maxwell would do just fine in Sherman's place is shortsighted because it means you have to find someone to fill Maxwell's spot, which lessens your depth, on and on your team gets weaker.

AND your statement doesn't even take into account Sherman's leadership on this team, which is ENORMOUS........and can't even really be quantified.

I don't think anyone is saying that there is no drop off between Maxwell and Sherm --of course there is. By definition if you replace the best player in the league at his position, then there is a drop off.

The question is, what is that drop off? And is it more or less of a drop off versus the other thing(s) you will lose with the 15m per year you are paying Sherm instead of the other players?

 

[DavidSeven]

allows Earl to cheat toward Max's side.

Earl doesn't do that. I feel like you have watched very little film of this team and are kind of making things up if I am being honest, and I don't mean to be a jerk.


Either way, we run a TON of cover 3, you don't cheat as the deep middle on cover 3 or teams will have a heyday.

Bro, you're the one that has been consistently accused of being a Niner troll because of your non-nonsensical rants about a variety of players (particular R. Wilson). Don't start.

 

[BullHawk33]

As I said earlier today, if Earl, Kam and Sherm work together, keep their contracts much lower than top dollar and stay together, they will make more money and be in the Hall of Fame, all together. They can improve each others play to a level where they can be perennial all-pros. 4 - 5 years of that and they will cement their place in history if they remain healthy. If they go for more lucrative contracts then one team cannot afford them all given the cap. Top Safeties make around 10 million. Top corners, 15 or 16 million. We are not going to be able to afford all 3 and have them take up 30 million of a 129 million cap. If you think Defense will be around 65 million cap space, that would be 46% of the cap space for 3 of the 30 defensive players they have to have under contract.

If they don't stick together, then I would make it a priority to sign Earl and see what happens with Sherm. One thing is sure though, we won't be able to afford both Sherm and Wilson next year unless someone takes a discount of some sort.

 

[hawk45]

I think the Hutchinson analogy is a GREAT one. We had Walt over there, we tried to convince ourselves after the Hutch fiasco that we might be better off since we weren't overpaying (so we thought) for a mere guard. Hutch was replaceable, right? He played next to Walter Jones! Anyone playing next to Walter Jones is going to look good.

And our offense was never the same, or close to the same, because Hutch was an elite, elite player.

That is Sherman. Yes he plays next to a great player (Earl), but it's not crazy to tie up a lot of money in one focused spot if that is where your game-changing elite players are, whether that's offensive line or secondary.

I agree that 20 mil per would be a non-starter, but as 7 has pointed out numerous times in numerous threads, extending a guy is different. They get security. They get a year of making their new big salary instead of playing for peanuts. And unless the guy is just hell-bent on getting to free agency, you avoid the bidding war.

The argument around Revis's contract being a lot of window dressing without much guaranteed money is compelling as well. Schneider will show Sherman the love, and Sherman is smart enough to understand that there are alternatives to Revis's contract that can keep him in the hunt for a ring.

I hope. At this point it's all hope but it has as much basis as the assumption that Sherm won't extend under any circumstances. Yeah, sure, if we don't extend him Sherman will want 20mil because he just took a huge risk.

 

[TJH]

Bro, you're the one that has been consistently accused of being a Niner troll because of your non-nonsensical rants about a variety of players (particular R. Wilson). Don't start.

I'm accused by soft-minded homers who can't handle any opinion other than every player we have on our roster is the best in the league. I could not care less what anyone who comes to that conclusion would think. If you would like to add yourself to that category instead of addessing the things I am actually saying, go ahead.

 

[hawk45]

allows Earl to cheat toward Max's side.

Earl doesn't do that. I feel like you have watched very little film of this team and are kind of making things up if I am being honest, and I don't mean to be a jerk.


Either way, we run a TON of cover 3, you don't cheat as the deep middle on cover 3 or teams will have a heyday.

Dude, he may not obviously creep over to Bmax's side, but his decision tree goes:

- protect deep middle
- protect Bmax
- leave Sherm alone they ain't going to throw at him and if they do, popcorn time

By definition with teams not throwing at Sherman, which you must've seen during your exhaustive film review, Earl needs to play on that side of the field far less.

 

[Lady Talon]

Is Maxwell better than Sherman at this point? No, however he is close enough, and usually stuck with the best WR the other team can offer because everyone throws away from Sherm. And no, Earl doesn't cheat towards Maxwell, he cheated towards Browner because everyone knew his coverage skills sucked. Maxwell's play made our already #1 pass defense better to the point of best of all time comparisons. He isn't some scrub.

Maxwell is not close to Sherman. Not physically. Not intellectually. He's a good player who plays good technique within the system, but he's benefiting from what Sherman and Earl bring to the table. That extends to the film room and Sherman's ability to identify route concepts and spread that info to the rest of the team. He will never be a Richard Sherman type corner without the presence of Richard Sherman.

Nobody is Richard Sherman. That's asinine. Sherman benefits from what Earl has done for the past 3 years. Sherm's also sat on his side of the field and benefited because teams threw their best receivers at our opposite corner more often than they challenged him.

$30m on our secondary is going to cripple us in other areas. It's like all the faith in PC and JS go down the toilet because we'll lose a great player, well other great teams have lost great people and dealt with it. Pete and his DC are always going to field a capable secondary with or without Richard Sherman.

Teams let go of great players. They don't let go of elite players in their mid-20s, unless it's by boneheaded error (e.g. Hutchinson). People like you and Ruskell thought we couldn't invest a ton of money on the left side of an O-line. How did that pan out?

And the reason why teams move their best WRs away from Sherman is because of what they see on tape. The reason why Peyton Manning, the most intelligent QB of all-time, didn't throw at Sherman but challenged Maxwell all day is because of what he saw on tape: Sherman is an elite corner; Maxwell is not.

That's funny. Manning played a game, that if successful, would have beaten 30 other teams. And I'm giving SF the benefit of the doubt that they could have slowed him up enough to win a much closer game. If Maxwell sucks so bad, where's the YAC they accumulated against all the other teams they faced? He was beaten on DT's touchdown, where else did he fail? Where's the huge, glaring disparity? a HoF QB with the best passing attack the NFL's ever seen beat him one time? String him up.

No he isn't Sherman, but Sherm's been burned too hasn't he? Double moved right out of his cleats by Luck and TY on a 78 or something yard TD bomb. Maxwell had 4 interceptions in 5 games to end the regular season? Can't wait until Pete cuts that kind of dead weight. Maxwell's started a half seasons worth of games, his only sin is he isn't quite on par with a 2 1/2 year starter at the top of his game when he gets challenged more often with better competition and has shut it down better than anyone not named Sherman?

Sorry I don't get this argument, other then our entire team hangs in the balance of of one man.

 

[chris98251]

One I know we can keep all three, this topic is a stir stick, we have a plan and it's been executed well to date and i have confidence it will continue. Sherm, Thomas and Kam all have said were staying together at one point and the Front Office has been fair and up front with everyone so far, thats why players want to stay and be a part of this.

Yes it's a business, but this orgnazation had shown it will respect it's players, thats huge and the players respond with working with them. Respecting them with deals that are not maybe top end but close in the effort to keep the team together.

 

[Tical21]

I'm starting to like DavidSeven's philosophy. Let's just pay them all big money. That ought to work. Then we'll pay Wagner, Okung, Wright, Wilson, Irvin, and all the rest of our great young players.

Sorry, but we're not going to have the opportunity to choose to keep everybody. That decision has been made for us by the folks that decided some time back to implement this thing called the salary cap. It was designed specifically so that great teams couldn't accumulate too much talent. We're going to have to let some awesome young players go. The good news is that too many of them aren't going to have to go this year. The better news is that Schneider seems to be great at finding replacements. Let's enjoy our damn Super Bowl, and enjoy having all these great players while we have them, win another one next year, and do the best we can to keep a few of them in the process.

 

[WeakBeak]

Is none a option?

 

[seedhawk]

I'm starting to like DavidSeven's philosophy. Let's just pay them all big money. That ought to work. Then we'll pay Wagner, Okung, Wright, Wilson, Irvin, and all the rest of our great young players.

Sorry, but we're not going to have the opportunity to choose to keep everybody. That decision has been made for us by the folks that decided some time back to implement this thing called the salary cap. It was designed specifically so that great teams couldn't accumulate too much talent. We're going to have to let some awesome young players go. The good news is that too many of them aren't going to have to go this year. The better news is that Schneider seems to be great at finding replacements. Let's enjoy our damn Super Bowl, and enjoy having all these great players while we have them, win another one next year, and do the best we can to keep a few of them in the process.

Would truly be fun stuff if DavidSeven posted HIS list of "elite" players on our team and just how much they could/should get paid.

 

[CPHawk]

Is there a hit for paying huge signing bonuses? Mr Allen can carry that, a perk of having the richest owner in the NFL, and if the players are willing to take less per year, but get big $ upfront, then do it.

 

[hawk45]

Seedhawk, Tical, such hyperbole. DavidSeven is saying Sherman is one of only like 4 or 5 guys on the entire team that you HAVE to sign. He's also said that after the (inflated with non-guaranteed dollars) Revis contract, the next highest paid corner is closer to 10 mil, so he thinks we can get Sherman for 12 in an *extension*. I've never seen him say he wants Sherman for 20mil.

Earl is not the only elite player on the defense. Sherman is right there with him.

Not to speak for 7, but I guarantee his position is that if you had to lose Wagner, Wright, Irvin, he'd live with it. But Wilson, Okung, Earl, Sherman, that is the core you must retain. In fact I think he's said that explicitly but that's being ignored somehow.

And also, LMAO at including Irvin in that list.