Are the Patriots Still Cheaters?

[NWPatsFan]

Yes the are still cheaters. Brady said out of his own mouth that he likes when gronk spikes the ball too hard since it deflates them and he loves throwing deflated balls. In a interview in 2011.

This was all over the news. people forget so quick.

But not me I stay grounded in reality like batman,black panther,& captain america. Lol. Best comic hero's to teach this.

In real life it would be Mohammad Ali.

You can fool some of the people most of the time,but you can't fool all of us.

Spygate nfl destroyed the records that congress requested,etc...

No wonder so many bad people in the NFL,Goodall is a horrible role model.

Never stay tricked!

WOW. Do you really believe that Brady depends on Gronk spiking the ball to lower the PSI? I believe what Brady said was what most people call a JOKE.

Later in the post you say how bad the Commish is and yet you imply that Spygate and Deflategate are worthy of being punnished for?

I do agree that the current Commish is not good for the NFL from the fans perspective, where we disagree is that I feel he is biased against the Patriots and any team that is showing signs of upsetting the parity of the league and you seem to feel that he favors the Pats.

 

[Sports Hernia]

^ Hmmmm, somehow a patsies troll was missed. ^
8)

 

[NWPatsFan]

^ Hmmmm, somehow a patsies troll was missed. ^
8)

I am not sure what you mean by troll. I am discussing one of the topics in the NFL forum. If you want me to stop responding to the topic I can, but it seems like a tame discussion so far.

 

[hawksurething]

Yes the are still cheaters. Brady said out of his own mouth that he likes when gronk spikes the ball too hard since it deflates them and he loves throwing deflated balls. In a interview in 2011.

This was all over the news. people forget so quick.

But not me I stay grounded in reality like batman,black panther,& captain america. Lol. Best comic hero's to teach this.

In real life it would be Mohammad Ali.

You can fool some of the people most of the time,but you can't fool all of us.

Spygate nfl destroyed the records that congress requested,etc...

No wonder so many bad people in the NFL,Goodall is a horrible role model.

Never stay tricked!

WOW. Do you really believe that Brady depends on Gronk spiking the ball to lower the PSI? I believe what Brady said was what most people call a JOKE.

Later in the post you say how bad the Commish is and yet you imply that Spygate and Deflategate are worthy of being punnished for?

I do agree that the current Commish is not good for the NFL from the fans perspective, where we disagree is that I feel he is biased against the Patriots and any team that is showing signs of upsetting the parity of the league and you seem to feel that he favors the Pats.

Sherman said Goodall eats at one of the owners homes which is frantenizing.(must eat in public).

Spygate was so criminal that goodell ordered the tapea destroyed.

Brady admitted deflate... but you dont belive your own QB ? http://nypost.com/2015/01/20/deflategat ... -remember/

I would not blame you if you don't believe that lying Brady because he lied and said he did not touch the balls,when every QB & ball boy knows that QBs SELECT balls for the game !!!

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... -footballs

See how certain people want the 12 the man to stay tricked !!!

 

[NWPatsFan]

Sherman said Goodall eats at one of the owners homes which is frantenizing.(must eat in public).

Spygate was so criminal that goodell ordered the tapea destroyed.

Brady admitted deflate... but you dont belive your own QB ? http://nypost.com/2015/01/20/deflategat ... -remember/

I would not blame you if you don't believe that lying Brady because he lied and said he did not touch the balls,when every QB & ball boy knows that QBs SELECT balls for the game !!!

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... -footballs

See how certain people want the 12 the man to stay tricked !!!

Do you understand the word JOKE. Brady was making a joke. I heard the interview did you? By the way, the NY Post is not a newspaper (think National Enquirer) and it is a NY based paper, which by the way is a major rival of the NE Patriots. Their job is to sell papers, writing articles that show the Pats in a bad light sells papers in NY.

If a football gets deflated from spiking or any other reason during the course of a game that is up to the refs to notice it and remove the ball. The facts are not even out yet as to what transpired, so why judge them yet?

Regarding Spy-gate, can you tell me the huge advantage the Patriots got from doing what they did? Do you even know the details of what they were punished for?

What are you referring to when you say Brady "did not touch the balls"? Was this during his press conference?

 

[vonstout]

See. Once again you didn't provide any reasonable response to the picks/fumbles that I posted above. I agree that cold weather can deflate a football. But you are talking about winter conditions, not 50 degrees. And don't you find it amazing that the cold weather only affected the Patriots footballs and not the Colts'. Why don't you explain that one along with the TO numbers falling off so drastically since 2007 when they got to doctor the balls. The only reasonable explanation to get the 2 psi drop is that they elevated the temperature of the balls when the pressure was measured initially, because the delta T wasn't nearly enough to drop the pressure 2 psi.

 

[NWPatsFan]

See. Once again you didn't provide any reasonable response to the picks/fumbles that I posted above. I agree that cold weather can deflate a football. But you are talking about winter conditions, not 50 degrees. And don't you find it amazing that the cold weather only affected the Patriots footballs and not the Colts'. Why don't you explain that one along with the TO numbers falling off so drastically since 2007 when they got to doctor the balls. The only reasonable explanation to get the 2 psi drop is that they elevated the temperature of the balls when the pressure was measured initially, because the delta T wasn't nearly enough to drop the pressure 2 psi.

First off, there are no official reports about the amount of PSI drop. This is the main problem with this whole scandal...most of the info is based on un-named sources. It feels like a witch hunt.
Secondly, the reports that are out there range from 11 of 12 balls have 2 PSI drop, to just a tick under. There is even a report that the only ball that was 2 psi low was the one that was intercepted by the Colts and in their possession. I have also heard that there is no recorded PSI measurements from before the game or at halftime. Not only that, but there is now a report that puts Mike Kensil (a suggested Pats/Belichick hater from the days with the Jets) at the heart of the investigation/sting. You may laugh at these facts as being a homer, but tell me this, why did the league not check and measure the psi of the balls before the game? The GM of the Colts has gone on record as saying that they suspected the Patriots of playing with deflated balls. If the NFL wanted a fair game they should have told the refs and the Patriots that they have a complaint against the Pats and that any funny business will be dealt with. Instead they did not inform the Refs nor the Patriots and instead tried to stage a sting operation to catch them. The problem is that they didn't know about the fact that temperature has an affect on psi. Even 50 degrees (especially with cold rain) can deflate a football.

Regarding turnovers, I have seen a study that disputes the report/stats you are referring to. I admit, I do not have a firm grasp on statistically analysis and the study I read went (mostly) over my head, but being it is my team and knowing that Belichick hates turnovers, I can imagine a scenario where he coaches players up to not turn the ball over. Brady has not really been known as a deep ball passer (except when Moss was teamed up with him) so that can mostly explain his low int. numbers. Also, he is very good at placing the ball where only his receiver can catch it (not perfect but pretty damn close).

Hey, I get it the Patriots are easy to hate. They have been a top team for 14 years and that rubs a lot of people the wrong way. Belichick acts very arrogant to the media (not so different to Marshawn), Brady has it all money/championships/beautiful, rich wife/etc. I would have a hard time rooting for them too if they were not on the team I grew up with. It isn't much different too all the people who don't like Sherman and Lynch because of their success and their attitudes. But we roll with it cause they play for the Hawks and they make the game enjoyable. When I go to the Clink (usually once a year) I don't care what opposing fans think, I want to bring the noise and feed off the attitude of the team...it is a freakin' blast.

 

[hawksurething]

Sherman said Goodall eats at one of the owners homes which is frantenizing.(must eat in public).

Spygate was so criminal that goodell ordered the tapea destroyed.

Brady admitted deflate... but you dont belive your own QB ? http://nypost.com/2015/01/20/deflategat ... -remember/

I would not blame you if you don't believe that lying Brady because he lied and said he did not touch the balls,when every QB & ball boy knows that QBs SELECT balls for the game !!!

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... -footballs

See how certain people want the 12 the man to stay tricked !!!

Do you understand the word JOKE. Brady was making a joke. I heard the interview did you? By the way, the NY Post is not a newspaper (think National Enquirer) and it is a NY based paper, which by the way is a major rival of the NE Patriots. Their job is to sell papers, writing articles that show the Pats in a bad light sells papers in NY.

If a football gets deflated from spiking or any other reason during the course of a game that is up to the refs to notice it and remove the ball. The facts are not even out yet as to what transpired, so why judge them yet?

Regarding Spy-gate, can you tell me the huge advantage the Patriots got from doing what they did? Do you even know the details of what they were punished for?

What are you referring to when you say Brady "did not touch the balls"? Was this during his press conference?

The advantage of spygate was that those old as dirt players did not have to keep up with young players cause they were always in the right spots & knew the options of where the ball was going !

Brady is a liar he touched the balls.

Also It was not a joke. And I like how you ignored the CBS link. Which I why I put it up there since I know how dismissers like you work.

12th man never stay tricked !

 

[NWPatsFan]

The advantage of spygate was that those old as dirt players did not have to keep up with young players cause they were always in the right spots & knew the options of where the ball was going !

Brady is a liar he touched the balls.

Also It was not a joke. And I like how you ignored the CBS link. Which I why I put it up there since I know how dismissers like you work.

12th man never stay tricked !

Re: Spygate- The Patriots were punished for taping defensive signals from the wrong location. That is all they were punished for. The new commish had to show everyone that he was in charge and wanted to put Belichick in his "place".

Re Brady lying- I don't remember well these days, so could you tell me where he said he never touches the balls? I am pretty sure he realizes that he is the QB and knows he touches the balls during the game, but maybe he is getting senile in his advanced years.

Re Brday joke/no Joke- We will just have to disagree. I didn't comment on CBS because I was lazy and tired, but the article looked eerily similar to the NY Post article. Looked like a headline grabbing click-bait type of internet garbage. But, I am a Patriots fan and will see things from that point of view.

Re !2th man never stay tricked- I don't see where anyone is trying to trick you. The NFL has barely released any "facts" on this situation and almost every leak has a story/leak that contradicts it. The only one doing the tricking is the media that loves drama and tries to remain relevant by generating interest. What better way to generate interest than picking on one of the most hated and successful franchises this sport has ever seen.

Here's to hoping both the Hawks and Pats have a great off-season so they can meet again in the SB.

 

[scutterhawk]

Lern 2 rede.

Eu spelt it rong,

 

[scutterhawk]

Most of us said from day one that they'd throw some ball boy flunkie under the bus and plead ignorance.........and this story confirms that.

Y'all got to admit that this "Ball Boy Flunkie" is some kind of fantastic mind reader, because he was deflating the balls to Brady's liking, without having been instructed to do so.
We all know how squeaky clean Billicheat and Brady are, so it had to be that dirt bag "Ball Boy" that's been smearing up their reputations.
Good thing Goodell saw right through that piece of shit Ball Boy, eh?

 

[scutterhawk]

Wooh. Posts like this create responses that get threads put in the shack. That is bold to post this ish on a Seahawks board. Nobody here is jealous of The Grinch and the NFL Poster Boy. Your team barely beat a injury riddled team with a WR core of all undrafted players. Your post reveals you as a troll. Have fun under your bridge.

I agree, this is a bogus thread and belongs in the Shack. If this were an objective thread, the OP's original point would have been discussed and looked at with some basic common sense. Instead of talk about tuck rule and constant cheating (they were never penalized for "spying", they misplaced a camera). Unfortunately, due to the recent SB, few Seahawks fans are able to look at this topic objectively. Speaking of the SB, there was nothing injury riddled about the last series of the game except for Hightower, who probably made the unsung play of the game. Football players play through injuries all the time it is part of the game and it is tough when it affects your team but all teams have to deal with it. I personally really enjoy the Seahawks and go to a game every year and would have been OK (well, maybe at least not mad) with the Seahawks pulling out the victory in the end (maybe minus the Kearse circus catch) and I would have been here offering congratulations because it was a great football game and well played on both sides.

Surly you haven't run out of out of lame excuses that you want to throw in there?
The problem with spewing bullshit excuses, is that those that do it to this degree, find themselves believing their own lies, and thus the term, "Chronic Liar", and YES, I am being every bit as "Objective" as you are.

 

[NWPatsFan]

Wooh. Posts like this create responses that get threads put in the shack. That is bold to post this ish on a Seahawks board. Nobody here is jealous of The Grinch and the NFL Poster Boy. Your team barely beat a injury riddled team with a WR core of all undrafted players. Your post reveals you as a troll. Have fun under your bridge.

I agree, this is a bogus thread and belongs in the Shack. If this were an objective thread, the OP's original point would have been discussed and looked at with some basic common sense. Instead of talk about tuck rule and constant cheating (they were never penalized for "spying", they misplaced a camera). Unfortunately, due to the recent SB, few Seahawks fans are able to look at this topic objectively. Speaking of the SB, there was nothing injury riddled about the last series of the game except for Hightower, who probably made the unsung play of the game. Football players play through injuries all the time it is part of the game and it is tough when it affects your team but all teams have to deal with it. I personally really enjoy the Seahawks and go to a game every year and would have been OK (well, maybe at least not mad) with the Seahawks pulling out the victory in the end (maybe minus the Kearse circus catch) and I would have been here offering congratulations because it was a great football game and well played on both sides.

Surly you haven't run out of out of lame excuses that you want to throw in there?
The problem with spewing bullshit excuses, is that those that do it to this degree, find themselves believing their own lies, and thus the term, "Chronic Liar", and YES, I am being every bit as "Objective" as you are.

You are great, I really enjoy your feedback. I know how hard it is to debate these complex issues, thanks for being patient with me, I think sometimes it is hard for me to conveys my thoughts clearly by writing. The open-ended questions are harder for me to answer, so if you have any more specific questions it would be helpful for me so that I can clarify my responses to you. Thanks again for your input, I hope both teams (Pats and Hawks) continue to do well this off season.

 

[Rambitious]

I didn't see anywhere a mention of the latest news regarding the whole "deflategate" topic so I wanted to get some thoughts with my very first post.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...-room-attendant-kicking-game-ball-source-says

The unapproved kicking ball that sources told "Outside the Lines" that a Gillette Stadium officials' locker room attendant tried to introduce into the AFC Championship Game was handed to the man by an NFL employee, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter on Wednesday.

The source said one of the "K balls," which are used only for special-teams play, went missing, and an NFL employee in charge of collecting balls for charity gave another ball to Jim McNally, who works the officials' locker room at Patriots games.

From all the latest accounts, it sounds like the Patriots were clean in this instance. I'm not denying that they cheated in the past with the filming incident, but there were plenty of comments on this board about how the NFL was going to sweep things under the rug and how Brady and Belicheck are turds to put it nicely.

Yes, they're cheaters.

 

[Rainger]

Yup always have been always will. Cheaters do prosper.

 

[NWPatsFan]

Yup always have been always will. Cheaters do prosper.

So, even if the NFL releases a thorough report that exonerates the Pats, you are saying you won't believe the report. Instead you will believe unconfirmed "leaks" most likely from the Colts GM/owner and possibly Mike Kensil (league office) a known Pats hater from his days with the Jets. Do I have that right?

 

[canfan]

Yup always have been always will. Cheaters do prosper.

So, even if the NFL releases a thorough report that exonerates the Pats, you are saying you won't believe the report. Instead you will believe unconfirmed "leaks" most likely from the Colts GM/owner and possibly Mike Kensil (league office) a known Pats hater from his days with the Jets. Do I have that right?

Would that be the same NFL League office that destroyed all the evidence after spygate without letting anybody see it? Look, I don't know if the Patriots are cheaters and you certainly don't "know" they are clean. Only the people directly involved have those answers and if the truth is anywhere close to what I believe, they are not likely to be forthcoming. What we do know is that the Patriot organization will try to get any advantage they can on Sunday, to the point where their activities blur the lines enough to have OTHER ORGANIZATIONS, not just fans question their motives. I appreciate that you are a fan of the team and you feel compelled to stick up for them. I also have a certain amount of sympathy for you as this is an argument you will never win. Your team shows a pattern of behaviour that is always going to lead to people questioning their success. I hear there is a similar site to Seahawks.net that is run by people who believe Bellichik is the epitome of ethics and professionalism. You will find many like minded souls over there. I suggest you check it out. You will likely be much happier frequenting their site.

 

[NWPatsFan]

Yup always have been always will. Cheaters do prosper.

So, even if the NFL releases a thorough report that exonerates the Pats, you are saying you won't believe the report. Instead you will believe unconfirmed "leaks" most likely from the Colts GM/owner and possibly Mike Kensil (league office) a known Pats hater from his days with the Jets. Do I have that right?

Would that be the same NFL League office that destroyed all the evidence after spygate without letting anybody see it? Look, I don't know if the Patriots are cheaters and you certainly don't "know" they are clean. Only the people directly involved have those answers and if the truth is anywhere close to what I believe, they are not likely to be forthcoming. What we do know is that the Patriot organization will try to get any advantage they can on Sunday, to the point where their activities blur the lines enough to have OTHER ORGANIZATIONS, not just fans question their motives. I appreciate that you are a fan of the team and you feel compelled to stick up for them. I also have a certain amount of sympathy for you as this is an argument you will never win. Your team shows a pattern of behaviour that is always going to lead to people questioning their success. I hear there is a similar site to Seahawks.net that is run by people who believe Bellichik is the epitome of ethics and professionalism. You will find many like minded souls over there. I suggest you check it out. You will likely be much happier frequenting their site.

I am not unhappy. I enjoy discussing this issue with fellow Northwesterners. I have tough skin so the few people that try to get me upset doesn't bother me.

I do agree that the NFL office is incompetent. My understanding about the tapes being destroyed is a bit different, I remember Fox news (I think Goodell's wife somehow got possession of the tapes) showed the tapes and it was pretty boring and innocuous stuff. If it was a cover up they certainly didn't do a good job keeping the lid on it. Maybe one could say they only released what they wanted us to see, but the office is so incompetent that even if all the tapes were still available people would say they are only letting us see what they want us to see. The bottom line is this: Most people want to believe the Patriots are cheaters because they are the model franchise in the NFL. They hate us, 'cause they ain't us. The alternative means that their team is somehow inferior and that doesn't sit well with most fans (after all fans is short for fanatic).

I think the Patriots are as clean as every other organization in the NFL. The difference is that other teams don't generate the media attention. Case in point, Cleveland has been accused of sending text messages to the sidelines during games, Atlanta has been accused of pumping in crowd noise, Denver has been punished for salary cap violations, NYJets have been accused of tampering with Revis during the playoff run, Seattle has had multiple players accused of adderall, and the list goes on. My point is that if you look hard enough every NFL team has been accused of, as you say, "blurring the lines". The media seems to report these other violations, but if the Pats get accused it turns into a media circus.

One last question. What are is the pattern of behavior you speak of? What other violations are you referring to? I honestly can't think of others besides MisplacedCameraGate and Deflategate.

 

[vonstout]

What about driving out a roller to remove the snow for a FG. If I remember correctly, that was NE. Some of the things your team does might not be an outright violation of a rule, but since the road team doesn't have access to snow removing equipment, common sense says that doing something like that isn't right. Belicheat tries to take advantage of anything that isn't documented as a rule. Your statement in an email above asked someone that "even if the league comes out and says they found nothing" regarding deflategate, would I believe it, the answer is an emphatic no. Every team HAD (won't any more after this fiasco)the opportunity to rough up the balls to their satisfaction. Brady even said they use the balls in practice, etc. Per Belicheat's news conference, NE was "prepping the balls and that caused the temperature to go up". Why are they doing all of this prep before the inspection and not earlier? Amazing that they are generating enough friction in their prepping to raise the temperature of the balls right before they were going to be inspected and then throw in Brady's comment that he "doesn't want anyone touching the balls after he's selected them because they are perfect". See some inconsistencies there? You said earlier that everyone knows cold temperatures will deflate a ball. The factual statement is change in temperature is what caused the pressure drop. I believe they were raising the temperature of the balls before they were inspected to create a larger delta T. That would explain why only their balls were low and not Indy's. You also stated that you read something about the change in turnovers that "explained it". Look at the numbers before and after 2007. Do you think Belicheat started to think TO's were bad in 2007 and changed his coaching drills? You never answered the fact that players like BJGE had zero fumbles in 4 years and then had 5 in two years with Cincy. Did he forget everything he learned in NE? Why did Brady's TO's drop off so much after 2007? If you want a real discussion, answer all of the questions in this response.

 

[Rex]

Cheatriots inflated the balls in the steam room. The most despicable franchise in the NFL.