Golden Tate has more yards than...

[Tokadub]

Tate's having a great year, but he's also in a offense that throws the ball 50 times a game.

I don't know if you're just exaggerating to be funny or if you really don't know. But Stafford is averaging 35 throws a game so far this season. He's currently ranked 8th in the league in total attempts (212) which is just 3 ahead of Tom Brady.

Wilson is currently averaging 28 throws a game just 7 less than Stafford.

 

[razgriz737]

Whether I agree or disagree, your posts are entertaining as hell to read, Tokadub.

I've seen a few others bring it up, but I think we're also missing Tate's downfield blocking. Baldwin, as much as I love the guy, can't seem to block to save his life. As little a dude as Tate was, his blocking was stellar.

Really interesting point about Bevell holding back our players' true potential. I've seen some say that on defense, we tend to make average guys look like great guys. Maybe on offense the reverse is true at times.

 

[bjornanderson21]

Tate has been lining up opposite Calvin Johnson...AM I supposed to be impressed when Johnson gets all the attention and Tate is left in favorable situations?

Johnson was out yesterday and Tate got 12 Targets and 7 catches but 44 yards. Harvin on the year has 22 targets. In fact on the year Tate has 53 targets and Harvin, Kearse and Baldwin have 60 something targets.

The sad thing to me about Harvin is he has 22 catches on 26 targets and almost half of those are behind the LOS. He only has 1 pass that was caught past 10 yards

I have brough up Percy Harvin and the line of scrimmage many times but no one wants to listen.

I read an article last year (God I wish I had a link) that Harvin's average distance from the LOS on receptions as a Viking was like 2.4 yards. It was historically low, as in no one else comes close. In the last like 30 or 40 years he has the shortest distance from LOS on receptions. That is percy harvin's game. Think about that for a second. Think of the THOUSANDS of wrs who have come and gone, and Percy stands above (or below) them all with a ridiculous 2.something yards distance from LOS.

99.9% of hawk fans do not know this and refuse to believe what they are seeing. People are under the illusion that he was a down field threat in Minny but he only had a few long catches in his entire time with the Vikings. Almost all of his plays involved getting the ball behind the LOS are very close to it, just like the Hawks are doing.

Percy Harvin has talent as a RUNNINGBACK. He can be dangerous when he has the ball in open space. But as an actual WR there are 75-100 players right now who are better than him. He simply is not good at running routes because that has never been his game.

Harvin is not a traditional WR who is being used as a gimmick, harvin IS a gimmick rb/wr who is doing what he has always done. The hawks are not using him that differently from whwn he was in minny. Handoffs and short passes with the occasional intermediate/deep pass.

What we need is someone who can run many routes AND get open when russell scrambles. We need a #1wr or a guy like Golden Tate. Oh the irony.

 

[Tokadub]

Right, and if Tate were on this team, playing in this offense, he would most likely have under 200 yds on the season just like Baldwin, Kearse, and Harvin.

This is not a prolific passing offense. We had one of the lowest ranked passing offenses last season with Tate. We have one of the lowest ranked passing offenses this season without Tate.

Does anyone really think that Tate would have been the difference in either the SD game or the Dallas game?

I'd say yes Tate could of been the difference in the Dallas game. Wilson had only 126 passing yards on a day he was clearly struggling.

At one point we were down 27-23 and we just needed one good clock eating drive to secure the game. WHAT HAPPENED? 4 PASSES AND NOT 1 FIRST DOWN... We targeted Kearse three times (2 of them incomplete), and we targetted Luke Willson once which was also incomplete.

So on the most important drive in the game with 3 minutes left, when a good offense could of won right there, we complete 1/4 passes for 4 yards.

So yes I do think if we had Tate our chances to pick up that first down and ultimately win the game would of sky rocketed.

And that's just one drive the whole game! Let's not forget how terrible our offense was all day long.

SCORING SUMMARY:

- 1 blocked punt Touchdown return
- 1 fumble leading to Touchdown (great field position)
- 1 muffed punt for a Field Goal
- 1 terrible punt where we only picked up 12 yards for the FG
- 1 real drive for a FG (first of game)

THE ONLY SCORE WE HAD THE ENTIRE GAME THAT CAME FROM A "REAL" OFFENSIVE DRIVE WAS OUR FIRST SCORE OF THE GAME WHICH REQUIRED KEARSE TO HAVE A 53 YARD RECEPTION... AND WE STILL COULDN'T SCORE A TOUCHDOWN WE SETTLED FOR A FIELD GOAL.


Just want to make sure everyone realizes that the only real work our offense did required a 53 yard bomb to Kearse (one of the only well designed plays I saw all game if not THE ONLY ONE...) and we only got a FG from that drive.

4/5 of our scores were literally handed to us by the Cowboys, although I'd give some credit to Baldwin blocking that punt but still... it was a pathetic effort all around.


So yes against Dallas I think we could of easily won with Tate, but then again we could of won if we didn't use our offensive personnel in a manner that one poster on Fieldgulls so eloquently stated, "Bevell's play calling looks like a 12 year old playing Madden."


I'm not so sure if Tate alone could of won the SD game, but I'm pretty sure Tate + Marshawn Lynch having more than 7 carries would of.

 

[razgriz737]

This is not a prolific passing offense.

I know this isn't the main point of your post, but what kind of offense are we? We aren't a passing offense. Can we really call ourselves a power running offense if we're only going to give Lynch the ball 10 times? What the heck are we?

 

[HawkWow]

Some of this just comes down to players not yet ready to contribute. I wasn't a fan of the Richardson pick, but that had little to do with Richardson himself. I just felt OL, inc TE, was a higher priority. Richardson was drafted to stretch the field, softening the underbelly for Harvin. Like Tate and most young WRs, PR is suffering some growing pains.

People really need to educate themselves regarding Kevin Norwood. I maintain Norwood will ultimately prove to be the steal of this draft. Like Tate, Norwood IS the guy that tracks his scrambling QB and also like Tate (and ADB) he will fight for balls, making the tough catch whether contested or not. Unsure about his "injury", but I am sure he too is likely suffering some transition issues. I screamed in this forum to keep Tate, but Tate didn't do a lot until his 3rd year, so maybe a bity more patience should be granted to our new guys.

Playing devil's advocate here, because I don't like much about this offense and I'm not overly happy with the coaching staff atm. Pete included. The whole FIRE BEVELL thing is fun, but who actually believes Bevell is solely responsible for this mess? Even if he were, that too goes on Pete. Pete is maniacal regarding turn-overs, and god love him for that, but it's very clear he has Wilson playing not to lose, instead of playing to win, for fear of turning the ball over.. I'd bet thousands ADB's sideline rant included something similar to what I am suggesting here.

In closing...this is still a young team. We very well may not repeat, not many do, but if Richardson and Norwood get it together sooner than later, there will be much less talk of the departed Golden Tate and we will be better positioned (if we add OL) to win another SB or 2.

 

[pehawk]

People really need to educate themselves regarding Kevin Norwood. I maintain Norwood will ultimately prove to be the steal of this draft. Like Tate, Norwood IS the guy that tracks his scrambling QB and also like Tate (and ADB) he will fight for balls, making the tough catch whether contested or not. Unsure about his "injury", but I am sure he too is likely suffering some transition issues. I screamed in this forum to keep Tate, but Tate didn't do a lot until his 3rd year, so maybe a bity more patience should be granted to our new guys.
.

Yup. Bingo.

The Hawks passing attack is feeling Norwood's injury, IMO. Dude should/could've been at ADB's level, day one. His injury hurts.

He's still on track to return though, right?

 

[QuickLightning]

People really need to educate themselves regarding Kevin Norwood. I maintain Norwood will ultimately prove to be the steal of this draft. Like Tate, Norwood IS the guy that tracks his scrambling QB and also like Tate (and ADB) he will fight for balls, making the tough catch whether contested or not. Unsure about his "injury", but I am sure he too is likely suffering some transition issues. I screamed in this forum to keep Tate, but Tate didn't do a lot until his 3rd year, so maybe a bity more patience should be granted to our new guys.
.

Yup. Bingo.

The Hawks passing attack is feeling Norwood's injury, IMO. Dude should/could've been at ADB's level, day one. His injury hurts.

He's still on track to return though, right?

Norwood hasn't even been on the injury report lately...

 

[Happypuppy]

I too was not a fan of the Richardson pick. Not a great route runner and is pretty much a go route guy at this point.

Norwood I have more hope for. A large guy that plays large. I have not seen enough of him to comment on his routes or hands

 

[Chapow]

People really need to educate themselves regarding Kevin Norwood. I maintain Norwood will ultimately prove to be the steal of this draft. Like Tate, Norwood IS the guy that tracks his scrambling QB and also like Tate (and ADB) he will fight for balls, making the tough catch whether contested or not. Unsure about his "injury", but I am sure he too is likely suffering some transition issues. I screamed in this forum to keep Tate, but Tate didn't do a lot until his 3rd year, so maybe a bity more patience should be granted to our new guys.
.

Yup. Bingo.

The Hawks passing attack is feeling Norwood's injury, IMO. Dude should/could've been at ADB's level, day one. His injury hurts.

He's still on track to return though, right?

Norwood hasn't even been on the injury report lately...

Before the game on Sunday they said on the radio that Richardson, Michael, and Norwood were all healthy scratches.

 

[pehawk]

This preseason I heard a few different analysts/pundits throw out "Norwood's good", casually, as if it's just a known. They we're saying he's good with the same certainty you'd say "the sky's blue". I took note of that.

FWIW...

 

[Uncle Si]

Tate's got 1 TD....

 

[cesame]

Tate is lining up in the slot on 2/3 of his snaps. Basically he's being used better by his offensive coordinator.

Imagine that.

 

[Anthony!]

Just like last year is gone and done, so is Tate. Why are we talking about him?

Did you read his post?

It's less about Golden Tate and more about the fact that our offensive coordinator gets the bare minimum out of our offensive talent.

Nobody wants to hear this but we have a QB who needs big sight lines to deliver quick passes from the pocket.

Rw is so smart that he can take advantage from the pocket when its there, but if you are going to ask him to sit in the pocket and throw accurate passes like Rivers, Manning, Rodgers, Brady to well covered WRs its just not going to happen.

We had Gates blanketed, and Rivers still dropped them in on us, we just dont return that favor. You could put RW on the Chargers and Gates numbers would go WAY down.

RW is great at what he does, but he needs to make the space with his legs and feet to get the lanes to throw in.

What does all this mean?
-That we dont have many play options from a direct drop and QB pitch and catch from the pocket.
-Its why we see all these gimmicky plays week in and week out from the offense.
-Everyone just jumps on Bevell, but the gimmicks and play calling is just as much Carroll now as it is Bevell. If there was such an issue with "bad plays" being called as everyone thinks, Carroll would address it.
-The bottom line is we dont have Rodgers, Rivers or Manning throwing darts to WRs, we have a guy who we need to get into nice throwing lanes, or out in space. It worked to win a superbowl last season, and it could work again, but with a team with less depth and losing Tate, Wilsons bail out WR, its going to be VERY tough to do.

its easy to not want to hear it when it is not true and something you have been trying to push for years even thought the facts and stats have shown it is wrong. FYI you put Rw on a passing offense with a good o-line and true #1 and his stats would go up. So lets top with the crap and give it a break Rw has proven he can throw form the pocket and lay it in just like Rivers did to Gates many times.

 

[sc85sis]

I don't dislike Bevell or Sark as much as some here, but I could really do without seeing another bubble screen for a while. Between the Hawks and the Trojans, I've had enough with the sideways game.

 

[Anthony!]

Its funny how last year the same was being said about Tate not good enough, not creating separation, etc, etc. Now we realize that Tate is/was an elite wr with better play calling, better coaching, and a qb who can actually throw forward and not just screen passes. Its not all on the OC. What should he do whenever he calls a passing play, RW refuses to throw or just takes off?? Its happened all season long and I assume Bevell then comes back to the simple screens again. Yes Wilson won us 2 of our 3 games, but they were basically/only because of his scrambling. This is the NFL and scrambling won't work for the 3rd time. He needs to pass and complete passes and throw into tight coverages sometimes to give his receivers a chance.

The only positive thing i see is that because of the level of talent on this team (as Baldwin explained) it requires the best performances from the best teams and the worst performance from us, to beat us. I think its Pete's time to stick a rod or two up OC and RW to get this ship back on tract.

Hmm interesting in sites, and yet Rw led the league in down filed throwing last year, so what he just cannot do it any more? no the answer is play calling period. Guess what Wr getting open helps and guess what that is what the experts are saying bad o-line , wr not getting open and bad play calling none of which is Rw issue. Did RW have a bad game yes, but he also as you said won us several games and not just with his legs. By the way you want him to pass into tight coverage with 8 drops in the last 2 games really? You see there is a lot at play here you are ignoring.

 

[Anthony!]

Right, and if Tate were on this team, playing in this offense, he would most likely have under 200 yds on the season just like Baldwin, Kearse, and Harvin.

This is not a prolific passing offense. We had one of the lowest ranked passing offenses last season with Tate. We have one of the lowest ranked passing offenses this season without Tate.

Does anyone really think that Tate would have been the difference in either the SD game or the Dallas game?

I'd say yes Tate could of been the difference in the Dallas game. Wilson had only 126 passing yards on a day he was clearly struggling.

At one point we were down 27-23 and we just needed one good clock eating drive to secure the game. WHAT HAPPENED? 4 PASSES AND NOT 1 FIRST DOWN... We targeted Kearse three times (2 of them incomplete), and we targetted Luke Willson once which was also incomplete.

So on the most important drive in the game with 3 minutes left, when a good offense could of won right there, we complete 1/4 passes for 4 yards.

So yes I do think if we had Tate our chances to pick up that first down and ultimately win the game would of sky rocketed.

And that's just one drive the whole game! Let's not forget how terrible our offense was all day long.

SCORING SUMMARY:

- 1 blocked punt Touchdown return
- 1 fumble leading to Touchdown (great field position)
- 1 muffed punt for a Field Goal
- 1 terrible punt where we only picked up 12 yards for the FG
- 1 real drive for a FG (first of game)

THE ONLY SCORE WE HAD THE ENTIRE GAME THAT CAME FROM A "REAL" OFFENSIVE DRIVE WAS OUR FIRST SCORE OF THE GAME WHICH REQUIRED KEARSE TO HAVE A 53 YARD RECEPTION... AND WE STILL COULDN'T SCORE A TOUCHDOWN WE SETTLED FOR A FIELD GOAL.


Just want to make sure everyone realizes that the only real work our offense did required a 53 yard bomb to Kearse (one of the only well designed plays I saw all game if not THE ONLY ONE...) and we only got a FG from that drive.

4/5 of our scores were literally handed to us by the Cowboys, although I'd give some credit to Baldwin blocking that punt but still... it was a pathetic effort all around.


So yes against Dallas I think we could of easily won with Tate, but then again we could of won if we didn't use our offensive personnel in a manner that one poster on Fieldgulls so eloquently stated, "Bevell's play calling looks like a 12 year old playing Madden."


I'm not so sure if Tate alone could of won the SD game, but I'm pretty sure Tate + Marshawn Lynch having more than 7 carries would of.

you forgot 4 drops in the game to include a TD

 

[Anthony!]

Some of this just comes down to players not yet ready to contribute. I wasn't a fan of the Richardson pick, but that had little to do with Richardson himself. I just felt OL, inc TE, was a higher priority. Richardson was drafted to stretch the field, softening the underbelly for Harvin. Like Tate and most young WRs, PR is suffering some growing pains.

People really need to educate themselves regarding Kevin Norwood. I maintain Norwood will ultimately prove to be the steal of this draft. Like Tate, Norwood IS the guy that tracks his scrambling QB and also like Tate (and ADB) he will fight for balls, making the tough catch whether contested or not. Unsure about his "injury", but I am sure he too is likely suffering some transition issues. I screamed in this forum to keep Tate, but Tate didn't do a lot until his 3rd year, so maybe a bity more patience should be granted to our new guys.

Playing devil's advocate here, because I don't like much about this offense and I'm not overly happy with the coaching staff atm. Pete included. The whole FIRE BEVELL thing is fun, but who actually believes Bevell is solely responsible for this mess? Even if he were, that too goes on Pete. Pete is maniacal regarding turn-overs, and god love him for that, but it's very clear he has Wilson playing not to lose, instead of playing to win, for fear of turning the ball over.. I'd bet thousands ADB's sideline rant included something similar to what I am suggesting here.

In closing...this is still a young team. We very well may not repeat, not many do, but if Richardson and Norwood get it together sooner than later, there will be much less talk of the departed Golden Tate and we will be better positioned (if we add OL) to win another SB or 2.

Good post I agree on Norwood and on PC in Rws head about turnovers. Let Rw do his thin and stop worrying about it. The only reason for all this short crap I can think of is they are trying not to get Rw killed given how bad our o-line is. When it comes ight down to it we have the QB that can make all the throws form any place on the field to include the pocket, However we do not have a pass blocking or a true #1 wr and that is a huge problem. I mean can you imagine if we had Dez and say the Denvers o-line? It would be over.

 

[Anthony!]

This preseason I heard a few different analysts/pundits throw out "Norwood's good", casually, as if it's just a known. They we're saying he's good with the same certainty you'd say "the sky's blue". I took note of that.

FWIW...

I have seen him he runs great routes, has a huge wingspan, catches everything thrown to him, uses his body well to shield the ball and fights, oh and he runs a 4.4.

 

[Uncle Si]

Tate is lining up in the slot on 2/3 of his snaps. Basically he's being used better by his offensive coordinator.

Imagine that.

Used better than who?