Is anyone making excuses for the offensive line?

[brimsalabim]

I went back and watched the strip sack on Russell and it looked like we were in max protect. Russell hesitated but he had a split second where one of the receivers had a half step. The backs and the full backs didn't pick up their men though. Russell had exactly 3 seconds in a max protect package.

The red zone sack was similar.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

That's about the best positively-slanted write-up explaining the offensive woes I've seen, Steve. Kudos.

 

[joeseahawks]

Do we have the cheapest O-Line in the whole NFL? I understand that Okung is still making good money, but aren't the remaining guys (and their backups) all making close to NFL minimum wage?

Could it be that, when Russell negotiated his new contract, he also included 40% of the O-Line wages as part of his salary?

OK, I might be joking but why can't we spend a few $$$ and get some guys with experience who can play right now, instead of having 10 projects on the O-Line ... knowing that 70% of them will be average at best?

We are playing the RAMS in the first game. Yes, those RAMS with the best D-Line in the NFL. We can't be serious ... to be honest, we CANNOT be serious. Well ... we better keep BJ Daniels of the roster, because we will need plenty of QBs.

 

[theincrediblesok]

As bad as the o-line looked last night I'm still hopeful that they will make that line at least serviceable by the start of week 1, right now they are figuring out who's going to be on the starting line, they need to find the right combination.

As we all saw last night everyone of our QBs had no time, and it took awhile for even our run game to show up and that was during the 3rd and 4th stringers.

There were situations where TJ or Archer were in trouble and if it was Wilson he would of made a play out of it, but that would add to the stats of him holding the ball a little bit longer which some have ridiculed him for.

The O-line needs to play with the same combination for at least 4 weeks before they gel, and it was like that at the last half of the season last year. Tom Cable needs to find the starting lineup soon.

Preseason game 3 will be the ultimate test as our starters will play for half to three quarters.

 

[Rob12]

Well, I'll offer a couple of "excuses"...

1. Denver was playing a 3-4, which is traditionally a difficult D to handle if one is not experienced. We certainly lack that on our O-line. With a 3-4, the D can rush 4 and it won't be obvious where they are coming from pre-snap. With basically rookie centers and guards, there is a lack of experience making the blocking calls. Hell, even a vet center is challenged by a good 3-4 scheme. Throw in a few zone blitzes and the O-line starts seeing ghosts. They don't know where anybody is coming from.

2. Denver has a new D-coord, who is breaking in a new 3-4 scheme and was probably playing much more aggressively than most teams play in the pre-season. We saw a lot of stuff that one might not normally expect in Game 1 of pre. I think he's trying to get his guys up to speed ASAP, and we got the results of it.

Frankly, it was a supreme learning experience moment, if the team approaches it right. Yes, Cable seems to suck and teaching pass blocking techniques, but our guys need to work together as a unit for a few games before they will be anything more than barely adequate.

Oh and our run blocking was nothing to write home to mom about, either. Without our running game purring to generate that extra half step on pass plays, we're in trouble. The 3-4 has it's own unique troubles in the run game, too.

It's probably a good thing we saw the Broncs this early. It didn't cost us anything for the lessons in how to handle the 3-4. This should help us against the Lambs when we get there. Hopefully it is enough when added to how we do in the next 3 pracitice games.

This is what I was looking for. That's solid analysis, sutz. I especially love the part about it being a great learning experience. They got their butts kicked, but they're all young and coachable, and hopefully things will look up from here.

 

[Happypuppy]

The starting line that was eaten alive was not rookies. RT (2) RG (4) C(5) LG(4) LT(7).

Why is it we can expect more from any other position group year to year and not expect it from the OL. The OL that started had played together last year many times when when we had players out.

 

[Anthony!]

The starting line that was eaten alive was not rookies. RT (2) RG (4) C(5) LG(4) LT(7).

Why is it we can expect more from any other position group year to year and not expect it from the OL. The OL that started had played together last year many times when when we had players out.

:sarcasm_on: Because its all Wilson fault :sarcasm_off: Good point the oline seems to get a pass ever year, because of how good we have done. I guess it will take Wilson getting knocked out for a few games for people and cable to figure it out.

 

[Rob12]

The starting line that was eaten alive was not rookies. RT (2) RG (4) C(5) LG(4) LT(7).

Why is it we can expect more from any other position group year to year and not expect it from the OL. The OL that started had played together last year many times when when we had players out.

:sarcasm_on: Because its all Wilson fault :sarcasm_off: Good point the oline seems to get a pass ever year, because of how good we have done. I guess it will take Wilson getting knocked out for a few games for people and cable to figure it out.

Seriously man, what's your deal? Who is giving the offensive line a free pass? They were the subject of much contention last year and the same will be true this year.

Not every thread needs to turn into a Russell Wilson thread.

 

[Anthony!]

The starting line that was eaten alive was not rookies. RT (2) RG (4) C(5) LG(4) LT(7).

Why is it we can expect more from any other position group year to year and not expect it from the OL. The OL that started had played together last year many times when when we had players out.

:sarcasm_on: Because its all Wilson fault :sarcasm_off: Good point the oline seems to get a pass ever year, because of how good we have done. I guess it will take Wilson getting knocked out for a few games for people and cable to figure it out.

Seriously man, what's your deal? Who is giving the offensive line a free pass? They were the subject of much contention last year and the same will be true this year.

Not every thread needs to turn into a Russell Wilson thread.

First I have no problem, second yes there are some here who come up with every excuse under the sun for the oline.

Asto making this about Wilson you might want to check the very first sentence of the OP

"I was all last season, because I felt the sacks Russ took were more on him, and less on the line."

I did not make it about Wilson so nice try

 

[scutterhawk]

It's baffling to me how our pocket instantly - INSTANTLY - collapses once the ball is snapped yet Denver's backup has a nice pocket with some time to throw on nearly every drop back even though their OL is nothing but newbies with no NFL experience (according to what they said during the broadcast).

Why is that?

I've heard enough of the, Cable and the Seahawks have tooled up for a "Run First Offensive Line".
It's like they're saying, all we need Russell Wilson for, is to hand the ball off to Marshawn Lynch, and be able to scramble for his life, because there's no real need to give him the necessary time to find his Receivers.
Well, hell no!, why waste time on bozo's like Percy Harvin, or even bother trying to find speedy guys like Richardson, or trade for guys like Graham, when Wilson isn't being given even the minimal time to work and develop his passing skills, because Cable isn't in the mindset for the passing game?
Seems to me that other teams (like the Cowboys) have an O-Line that can walk and chew bubblegum at the same time, and can do BOTH.
With the Seahawks O-Line sputtering like they do since Cable was hired to fix the problem, how much of these shortcomings are on Tom Cable and when can we expect a turn around Season.
I do realize that he is putting together a semi-functional Offense (with duct tape and bailing wire) but how long before this experiment gets flagged for failure?
The Seahawks Defense has been fantastic, BUT, they still need Russell Wilson to stay healthy....Do you hear that Cable?

 

[Fade]

Well, I'll offer a couple of "excuses"...

1. Denver was playing a 3-4, which is traditionally a difficult D to handle if one is not experienced. We certainly lack that on our O-line. With a 3-4, the D can rush 4 and it won't be obvious where they are coming from pre-snap. With basically rookie centers and guards, there is a lack of experience making the blocking calls. Hell, even a vet center is challenged by a good 3-4 scheme. Throw in a few zone blitzes and the O-line starts seeing ghosts. They don't know where anybody is coming from.

2. Denver has a new D-coord, who is breaking in a new 3-4 scheme and was probably playing much more aggressively than most teams play in the pre-season. We saw a lot of stuff that one might not normally expect in Game 1 of pre. I think he's trying to get his guys up to speed ASAP, and we got the results of it.

Frankly, it was a supreme learning experience moment, if the team approaches it right. Yes, Cable seems to suck and teaching pass blocking techniques, but our guys need to work together as a unit for a few games before they will be anything more than barely adequate.

Oh and our run blocking was nothing to write home to mom about, either. Without our running game purring to generate that extra half step on pass plays, we're in trouble. The 3-4 has it's own unique troubles in the run game, too.

It's probably a good thing we saw the Broncs this early. It didn't cost us anything for the lessons in how to handle the 3-4. This should help us against the Lambs when we get there. Hopefully it is enough when added to how we do in the next 3 pracitice games.

From Pete Carroll's presser in reference to Sea O-Line vs. Denver's Front - "[Broncos] played a real basic game. It shouldn't have been difficult for us." 2:20 mark of the presser.

Wade Phillips' 3-4 is more like a 4-3 under pure 3-4 Hybrid (Like what the 49ers have run with Fangio.) Not like the crazy Pittsburgh or Arizona 3-4s that have blitzes coming from everywhere.

 

[scutterhawk]

It all boils down to ONE question, 'Who Will Take Responsibility If Wilson Gets Injured Because Of Shitty Pass Protection"?, and NO! the blame is just not all on Russell Wilson's back, like so many lazy posters have stated. :141847_bnono: , It's inadequate Coaching, and that's why RW was trying to get Lloyds Of London to help if the O-Line is still screwing the pooch in 2015.

 

[scutterhawk]

Well, I'll offer a couple of "excuses"...

1. Denver was playing a 3-4, which is traditionally a difficult D to handle if one is not experienced. We certainly lack that on our O-line. With a 3-4, the D can rush 4 and it won't be obvious where they are coming from pre-snap. With basically rookie centers and guards, there is a lack of experience making the blocking calls. Hell, even a vet center is challenged by a good 3-4 scheme. Throw in a few zone blitzes and the O-line starts seeing ghosts. They don't know where anybody is coming from.

2. Denver has a new D-coord, who is breaking in a new 3-4 scheme and was probably playing much more aggressively than most teams play in the pre-season. We saw a lot of stuff that one might not normally expect in Game 1 of pre. I think he's trying to get his guys up to speed ASAP, and we got the results of it.

Frankly, it was a supreme learning experience moment, if the team approaches it right. Yes, Cable seems to suck and teaching pass blocking techniques, but our guys need to work together as a unit for a few games before they will be anything more than barely adequate.

Oh and our run blocking was nothing to write home to mom about, either. Without our running game purring to generate that extra half step on pass plays, we're in trouble. The 3-4 has it's own unique troubles in the run game, too.

It's probably a good thing we saw the Broncs this early. It didn't cost us anything for the lessons in how to handle the 3-4. This should help us against the Lambs when we get there. Hopefully it is enough when added to how we do in the next 3 pracitice games.

From Pete Carroll's presser in reference to Sea O-Line vs. Denver's Front - "[Broncos] played a real basic game. It shouldn't have been difficult for us." 2:20 mark of the presser.

Wade Phillips' 3-4 is more like a 4-3 under pure 3-4 Hybrid (Like what the 49ers have run with Fangio.) Not like the crazy Pittsburgh or Arizona 3-4s that have blitzes coming from everywhere.

What?, you mean that the Bronco's weren't playing by the " NFL Reasoning rules" LOL?

 

[Rob12]

The starting line that was eaten alive was not rookies. RT (2) RG (4) C(5) LG(4) LT(7).

Why is it we can expect more from any other position group year to year and not expect it from the OL. The OL that started had played together last year many times when when we had players out.

:sarcasm_on: Because its all Wilson fault :sarcasm_off: Good point the oline seems to get a pass ever year, because of how good we have done. I guess it will take Wilson getting knocked out for a few games for people and cable to figure it out.

Seriously man, what's your deal? Who is giving the offensive line a free pass? They were the subject of much contention last year and the same will be true this year.

Not every thread needs to turn into a Russell Wilson thread.

First I have no problem, second yes there are some here who come up with every excuse under the sun for the oline.

Asto making this about Wilson you might want to check the very first sentence of the OP

"I was all last season, because I felt the sacks Russ took were more on him, and less on the line."

I did not make it about Wilson so nice try

Many of the sacks were on Russ and if you paid attention, you'd see that he was the first to admit that.

No, you're just trying to make this into another Wilson thread.

 

[Seafan]

Exhibition time to evaluate, We are going to have a very strong team all the way around .

Agreed. No doubt the OL looked like crap Friday night. Who expected more. The OL will likely be the same as last year. Not better, not worse.

 

[hawkfan68]

Well, I'll offer a couple of "excuses"...

1. Denver was playing a 3-4, which is traditionally a difficult D to handle if one is not experienced. We certainly lack that on our O-line. With a 3-4, the D can rush 4 and it won't be obvious where they are coming from pre-snap. With basically rookie centers and guards, there is a lack of experience making the blocking calls. Hell, even a vet center is challenged by a good 3-4 scheme. Throw in a few zone blitzes and the O-line starts seeing ghosts. They don't know where anybody is coming from.

2. Denver has a new D-coord, who is breaking in a new 3-4 scheme and was probably playing much more aggressively than most teams play in the pre-season. We saw a lot of stuff that one might not normally expect in Game 1 of pre. I think he's trying to get his guys up to speed ASAP, and we got the results of it.

Frankly, it was a supreme learning experience moment, if the team approaches it right. Yes, Cable seems to suck and teaching pass blocking techniques, but our guys need to work together as a unit for a few games before they will be anything more than barely adequate.

Oh and our run blocking was nothing to write home to mom about, either. Without our running game purring to generate that extra half step on pass plays, we're in trouble. The 3-4 has it's own unique troubles in the run game, too.

It's probably a good thing we saw the Broncs this early. It didn't cost us anything for the lessons in how to handle the 3-4. This should help us against the Lambs when we get there. Hopefully it is enough when added to how we do in the next 3 pracitice games.

This is what I was looking for. That's solid analysis, sutz. I especially love the part about it being a great learning experience. They got their butts kicked, but they're all young and coachable, and hopefully things will look up from here.

I agree with Rob12, great analysis Sutz. The only part I have a bit of disagreement with is the bolded sentence. I'm not sure how playing the Broncos 3-4 defense would help them against the Rams defense? I thought the Rams had a 4-3 front. At least according to their depth chart they have Long, Donald, Brockers, and Quinn as their starting Def line.
http://www.stlouisrams.com/team/depth-chart.html. Rams have a better DL than Broncos and they arguably have the best DL in the NFL (at least on paper). Now they added Nick Fairley to their rotation. First week is going to be a really tough game. Especially if the offensive line is playing like they did Friday night. Let's review the potential matchups -

Britt, RT vs. Chris Long, LDE
Sweezy, RG vs. Aaron Donald, LDT
Bailey or whoever wins LG job vs. Michael Brockers, RDT
Okung, LT vs. Robert Quinn, RDE

One paper, it seems that the Rams have a distinct advantage of winning battle in the trenches here. However, the Seahawks DL is better than the Rams OL -

Robinson, LT vs. Avril, RDE
Saffold, LG vs. Mebane, RDT
Reynolds, RG vs. Rubin, LDT
Washington, RT vs. Bennett, LDE

So it seems like it's a wash in the trench battle with both teams DL's having the advantage over the respective OL's.

 

[Anthony!]

Many of the sacks were on Russ and if you paid attention, you'd see that he was the first to admit that.

No, you're just trying to make this into another Wilson thread.

And yet the facts and stats show that you are wrong. IF you paid attention you would know your wrong. OF course Russell would say they he takes blame for every thing that goes wrong that doe snot not mean it is his fault. I have shown you proof that it is not Wilson. but here it is again since you missed it

"For Seattle’s Russell Wilson, the breakdown looks like this:

20 for what it terms a “blown block.”

14 for good coverage in the secondary

8 for a rusher coming in untouched (so meaning the blame more on scheme or assignment than a physical error).

And one each for it describes as other pressure and “quarterback fault.”

Of most note might be that FO assesses so many as coverage sacks — only Carolina had more, with 15.
"


Hmm 1 that is the QWBs fault 1


http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/ ... crambling/

Thanks for playing and turning this into another Wilsan thread with you incorrect Wilson bash

 

[Hawks46]

It's preseason.

Yes, with three years of statistical data in the rear view and tonight looked like another collision. I just can't see how this line will magically improve.

Well played, though.

Not really sure how this is even relevant. Someone can make excuses for last year's line, but this year's line isn't last year's line. It is different personnel, so how does that even compare out equally ?

This line is also young and inexperienced. I'm seeing something similar to 2012; the line and offense struggles and comes along slowly at first, then gels the last half of the year and we start blowing people out. These young guys are going to learn a lot from playing teams like the Rams.

I'll worry when it looks this craptastic the 3rd game of preseason.

 

[kobebryant]

So, upon a re-watch, I ended up liking what I saw out of Nowak and Glowinski.

Though I am no expert on judging offensive line play, both players looked really strong, anchored well in pass pro, moved well, got to the 2nd level and played to the whistle.

Glowinski looked like a guard, not a conversion project, but someone with legitimate experience at the position and a very good athletic profile to boot (check out how his size and combine testing compares to Joel Bitonio and Zach Martin).

Also, a very intelligent play by Nowak (whose size and athletic testing compares to Rodney Hudson) to snap the ball soon as Shane Ray encroached on the neutral zone to pick up the free 5; and that snap looked fine from the TV angle and like it should have been caught by TJack.

If I am correct in what I saw out of those two, I'm thinking we'll see Glowinski get time at RG and Nowak at C with/against 1st stringers in the coming weeks.

 

[justafan]

The excuse that Cable sacrifices pass blocking for elite run blockers does get old.They arnt elite nor have they been for sometime IMO.Lynch makes the olines look better than they are.Wilson usually doesnt hang around long enough to take hits.
Continuity is huge but each player still has to win their battle when they are one on one.
I still think they will have a great season in spite of the line,which will get better. Lynch will continue breaking tackles and Wilson wont sit back there wailting to get hit.He will do what he does best.