Is it time to move on From Pete?

[mrt144]

I only have one reply to this thread:
Tom Coughlin

Run out of town by the Giants despite 2 rings. Game has passed him by, they said. NYG have been a crap show since. Coughlin goes onto be an advisor for the Jags. A crap show of a franchise is suddenly taking down all comers including Brady and the Pats.

This is the hell you are headed for Seahawk fans. Be careful what you wish for. (And I said the same thing about Bevell and only now the light is clicking on for some of you.)

You don't fire good coaches. You don't dump good QB's. Nothing good ever comes of it. The odds of finding superior replacements are stacked astronomically against you.

So I ask then, what happens when a coach's output doesn't match with the good coach label? Is someone always a good coach once they've hit some paydirt? Do coaches never go through slumps? Or is that all ever good coaches do, go through slumps?

To me, it seems like anyone who ever wins hardware, in your eyes, is a good coach and should never, ever, have their output measured after winning that hardware. That's weird to me.

 

[NJlargent]

I only have one reply to this thread:
Tom Coughlin

Run out of town by the Giants despite 2 rings. Game has passed him by, they said. NYG have been a crap show since. Coughlin goes onto be an advisor for the Jags. A crap show of a franchise is suddenly taking down all comers including Brady and the Pats.

This is the hell you are headed for Seahawk fans. Be careful what you wish for. (And I said the same thing about Bevell and only now the light is clicking on for some of you.)

You don't fire good coaches. You don't dump good QB's. Nothing good ever comes of it. The odds of finding superior replacements are stacked astronomically against you.

This is a good post except that Carroll can't hold a candle to Coughlin. Coughlin won it in 2007 and then the Giants stunk and he brought them back in 2011. Carroll doesn't have that turnaround in him. We just keep regressing. Coughlin also would have tossed Bevell within a week of 49.

I am certainly a big fan of keeping Wilson, but only if Pete is gone.

There is certainly a concern about what a new coach would look like, but objectively we need a change. The message is stale and the team's direction is spiraling downward.

 

[mrt144]

I only have one reply to this thread:
Tom Coughlin

Run out of town by the Giants despite 2 rings. Game has passed him by, they said. NYG have been a crap show since. Coughlin goes onto be an advisor for the Jags. A crap show of a franchise is suddenly taking down all comers including Brady and the Pats.

This is the hell you are headed for Seahawk fans. Be careful what you wish for. (And I said the same thing about Bevell and only now the light is clicking on for some of you.)

You don't fire good coaches. You don't dump good QB's. Nothing good ever comes of it. The odds of finding superior replacements are stacked astronomically against you.

This is a good post except that Carroll can't hold a candle to Coughlin. Coughlin won it in 2007 and then the Giants stunk and he brought them back in 2011. Carroll doesn't have that turnaround in him. We just keep regressing. Coughlin also would have tossed Bevell within a week of 49.

I am certainly a big fan of keeping Wilson, but only if Pete is gone.

There is certainly a concern about what a new coach would look like, but objectively we need a change. The message is stale and the team's direction is spiraling downward.

That's where I'm at - RW is not the right QB for this offense as the plays are designed and called. And at this point I'd think it would be mutually beneficial for RW to play elsewhere and for Pete to find his QB that can more than make up for every single roster deficiency he had a hand in making. Too bad there isn't a Free agent or potential free agent that would come here (I defy you to explain how any of the best QBs in the league could be enticed to play here at this point without you know, doing the exact thing that so many complain about taking up a significant portion of salary) and that drafting that QB is seemingly the only way through.

I thought it would pain me more to say that but it doesn't. I'm just done with this iteration of the offense and what it is trying to do. I want the best for RW and for Pete and I don't think them together is best for either now. All good things come to an end.

 

[Fade]

the real power struggle might be between john and pete

I haven't heard, or seen anything yet to come to that conclusion. It will definitely be something to monitor if the team continues to lose. The wheels will have really come off at that point.

continues to run an offensive scheme that quite frankly looks more like something you would see in pop warner football than it does in the NFL.

It's even outdated for Pop Warner.

It is an evolve or die league. Pete is choosing to die. He is cool with it because he is doing it his way and staying true at least in his mind to his philosophy. (Which he continues to contradict all the time anyways.) 49 broke him more than any player, or fan.

on offense, have pete take a hands off approach and have schotty as a play designer, and russ as actual in-game playcaller. let russ drive.

That would be the correct thing to do, but it doesn't fit Pete's "philosophy".

This will be an interesting next 3 weeks. They could play more uptempo for larger chunks of the game where Russell clearly plays with more command, and comfort. Or they can keep him trapped in the telephone booth for 3 qtrs a game. It's all in Pete's hands. A nice litmus test.

That's where I'm at - RW is not the right QB for this offense as the plays are designed and called.

There really is no right QB for this putrid offense. Any QB that enters it will suffer. Pete would have to go back into the draft and select another one. Pete would then put the training wheels on super tight, and we would all watch the disastrophe. That is what it looks like now with an actual good QB, and that is why he is on the hot seat.

 

[mrt144]

That's where I'm at - RW is not the right QB for this offense as the plays are designed and called.

There really is no right QB for this putrid offense. Any QB that enters it will suffer. Pete would have to go back into the draft and select another one. Pete would then put the training wheels on super tight, and we would all watch the disastrophe. That is what it looks like now with an actual good QB, and that is why he is on the hot seat.

I know

 

[TwistedHusky]

Pete has 2-3 years left in him tops.

We are in the middle of a full rebuild, potentially losing our franchise QB (either due to trade, injury, or after no longer being able to tag him).

There is no scenario where Pete plus the above results in even a team that becomes a playoff threat. Worst case he treads water, eeks us to 7-9 records and we have to blow everything up once he leaves - only this time we have no choice of whether to build around the QB because we won't have one.

Wilson is either a great QB in waiting that has been held back or a flawed QB that Pete's work has done a lot to hide problems in. Either way, we won't know until we test. And the only potential future this team has is if either:

1 - We can get a boatload of picks in trade for Wilson and rebuild

2 - Wilson can be the great QB once we remove Pete's weird gameplans and fetters.

There is no scenario where keeping Pete benefits us enough to justify keeping him. There are scenarios where removing Pete might at least give us insight into the Wilson dilemma before we have to make hard choices on him. (maybe).

You have to look at where the upside is and what the risk is.

In keeping Pete, we gain what?

In releasing Pete, we risk what?

 

[Mad Dog]

I only have one reply to this thread:
Tom Coughlin

Run out of town by the Giants despite 2 rings. Game has passed him by, they said. NYG have been a crap show since. Coughlin goes onto be an advisor for the Jags. A crap show of a franchise is suddenly taking down all comers including Brady and the Pats.

This is the hell you are headed for Seahawk fans. Be careful what you wish for. (And I said the same thing about Bevell and only now the light is clicking on for some of you.)

You don't fire good coaches. You don't dump good QB's. Nothing good ever comes of it. The odds of finding superior replacements are stacked astronomically against you.

This is a good post except that Carroll can't hold a candle to Coughlin. Coughlin won it in 2007 and then the Giants stunk and he brought them back in 2011. Carroll doesn't have that turnaround in him. We just keep regressing. Coughlin also would have tossed Bevell within a week of 49.

I am certainly a big fan of keeping Wilson, but only if Pete is gone.

There is certainly a concern about what a new coach would look like, but objectively we need a change. The message is stale and the team's direction is spiraling downward.

And yet people were running Coughlin out of town as fast as they could at the end.

And we don't know if Carroll can't turn a sinking ship around. This is year one of rebuild/retool. We've lost 2 road games. Way too early to sharpen the pitchforks.

And again the odds of finding a better replacement are strongly against you. There are not enough brilliant minds and solid leaders of men out there. It's why guys that have never won a superbowl or won only one like Andy Reid, Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy remain consistently employed.

 

[mrt144]

I only have one reply to this thread:
Tom Coughlin

Run out of town by the Giants despite 2 rings. Game has passed him by, they said. NYG have been a crap show since. Coughlin goes onto be an advisor for the Jags. A crap show of a franchise is suddenly taking down all comers including Brady and the Pats.

This is the hell you are headed for Seahawk fans. Be careful what you wish for. (And I said the same thing about Bevell and only now the light is clicking on for some of you.)

You don't fire good coaches. You don't dump good QB's. Nothing good ever comes of it. The odds of finding superior replacements are stacked astronomically against you.

This is a good post except that Carroll can't hold a candle to Coughlin. Coughlin won it in 2007 and then the Giants stunk and he brought them back in 2011. Carroll doesn't have that turnaround in him. We just keep regressing. Coughlin also would have tossed Bevell within a week of 49.

I am certainly a big fan of keeping Wilson, but only if Pete is gone.

There is certainly a concern about what a new coach would look like, but objectively we need a change. The message is stale and the team's direction is spiraling downward.

And yet people were running Coughlin out of town as fast as they could at the end.

And we don't know if Carroll can't turn a sinking ship around. This is year one of rebuild/retool. We've lost 2 road games. Way too early to sharpen the pitchforks.

And again the odds of finding a better replacement are strongly against you. There are not enough brilliant minds and solid leaders of men out there. It's why guys that have never won a superbowl or won only one like Andy Reid, Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy remain consistently employed.

The odds of finding someone to replicate or exceed past successes is against you, especially if they are the apex of success. The odds of finding someone to replicate or exceed future expectations based on 2.2 seasons of the same miserable drek...I'd pay the price simply to be entertained again instead of watching a rerun of the same problems that have existed continue to exist. This isn't change just for change's sake, this is change because a limiting factor on team performance is still there and it either comes down to RW being an inferior talent who can't do anything right (less likely IMO) or a head coach who has ideas about the 'right way to win' that won't hear anything about he lacks the horses to do that at all and then personally goes against that by allowing a 4 vert pass game to be a significant portion of the offense (more likely IMO).

Also, there are structural and professional that explain why coaches never seem to go away forever - basically risk aversion which you identified and social connection which explains crapbirds like Schotty getting indefinite chances because he doesn't rock the boat and has the name.

Are college coaches just not an option in your mind because it's too risky? So is the pool of potential replacements basically guys who have been in the NFL, but not so good that they're under lock and key by their respective org? If you confine the criteria to this degree, yes, there is not a lot of potentially better options going forward. Because the potential replacements are middling OCs and DCs working for middling HCs or middling HCs themselves, at best.

For Eagles fans, was letting go of Reid and suffering through Kelly worth it?

 

[Hawker8989]

If you're gonna say he should be fired, who should replace him and why?

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

What a bunch of whinners..! We haven't been to the SB for a couple of years, lets dump the coach, the GM, and the QB..!
Same line of BS was slung around here when Pete was hired, bad hire, was run out of SC, we want a real coach.
It took a year or so of your constant grumbling, and all of a sudden, it's "In Pete we trust", "we love John and Pete", We love Russ, best QB in the league". Today it's, Pete was lucky, John got some lucky picks. Russ has peaked and regressed.We shudda won five SB's in a row, it's all Pete and John's fault. I believe the word is fickle.
Pete, John and Russ made a bunch of nobody's into stars, many of which allowed their egos to overrule their common sense and are now happily gone. Seattle made them, they didn't make Seattle.
Now P&J have some new stars growing and developing, ready to take us to the top again, but don't expect instant results with an entire new line up, it didn't happen instantly the last time, and it won't this time. You will all be kissing the leaders feet again before too far into the season.
They are rebuilding and you all want miracles. What you all deserve is to get your wish, dump Pete, John, and Russ, and end up sucking hinder for the next twenty or so years.
I suggest you all chill out, put down the beer, and sit back and enjoy the restructuring. If you do change the top three, you will begin to remember what it's like to be in the bottom third again, wallowing in mediocrity, which will last probably longer than most of you will be around.. Welcome to Cleveland of the NW...

All of the current problems, are a direct result of mismanagement.

Who selects the players? Pete and John.

Have the Seahawks picked terribly the past several years? Yes.

At some point, the coach should bear responsibility for terrible drafts.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

If you're gonna say he should be fired, who should replace him and why?

This is a premature question, unless someone's one of the very few here who think he needs to go now.

But if at the end of the season we don't see improvement and growth from this next group of young players and it's apparent that Pete's lost his fastball and ability to be the coach we hired?

Then the why is because of what I just said here.

The who? That's also a question for next off season when coordinators and college coaches become available. I wouldn't mind going the college route again with a coach like Peterson at UW and a young dynamic set of coordinators who understand how the game of football is now being played, and can draft like crazy.

 

[Seymour]

If you're gonna say he should be fired, who should replace him and why?

This is a premature question, unless someone's one of the very few here who think he needs to go now.

But if at the end of the season we don't see improvement and growth from this next group of young players and it's apparent that Pete's lost his fastball and ability to be the coach we hired?

Then the why is because of what I just said here.

The who? That's also a question for next off season when coordinators and college coaches become available. I wouldn't mind going the college route again with a coach like Peterson at UW and a young dynamic set of coordinators who understand how the game of football is now being played, and can draft like crazy.

Why you saying very few here want him gone when the poll clearly shows 71% do?

 

[Fade]

If you're gonna say he should be fired, who should replace him and why?

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[TwistedHusky]

Sometimes it makes sense to spin again if it is not working.

Alabama had quite a few coaches, and some were producing reasonably well, before they hit on Saban.

The Eagles, as pointed out, went with Kelly that did not work out. But eventually they found someone that would.

The idea you need to have an alternate in mind to make a decision is weird.

You should have a determination for what the goal is, what the expectations are, the timeline and considerations. When production deviates from the expectations you review it, when it is substandard (and this projects to substandard over the year) you make a change.

We probably won't win if we spin again. But if we do good work at research, find people that seem to have great promise and applicable experience (college), we certainly can make the spin win % better in our favor.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

If you're gonna say he should be fired, who should replace him and why?

This is a premature question, unless someone's one of the very few here who think he needs to go now.

But if at the end of the season we don't see improvement and growth from this next group of young players and it's apparent that Pete's lost his fastball and ability to be the coach we hired?

Then the why is because of what I just said here.

The who? That's also a question for next off season when coordinators and college coaches become available. I wouldn't mind going the college route again with a coach like Peterson at UW and a young dynamic set of coordinators who understand how the game of football is now being played, and can draft like crazy.

Why you saying very few here want him gone when the poll clearly shows 71% do?

The poll just says move on from Pete, it doesn't specify now or at the end of the year.

I'd love to hear from someone how firing Pete now accomplishes anything other than showing any promising coordinator or coach coming here is anything other than a complete dumpster fire.

 

[mrt144]

If you're gonna say he should be fired, who should replace him and why?

This is a premature question, unless someone's one of the very few here who think he needs to go now.

But if at the end of the season we don't see improvement and growth from this next group of young players and it's apparent that Pete's lost his fastball and ability to be the coach we hired?

Then the why is because of what I just said here.

The who? That's also a question for next off season when coordinators and college coaches become available. I wouldn't mind going the college route again with a coach like Peterson at UW and a young dynamic set of coordinators who understand how the game of football is now being played, and can draft like crazy.

Why you saying very few here want him gone when the poll clearly shows 71% do?

The poll just says move on from Pete, it doesn't specify now or at the end of the year.

I'd love to hear from someone how firing Pete now accomplishes anything other than showing any promising coordinator or coach coming here is anything other than a complete dumpster fire.

In my most cynical mind -

"You mean to tell me that Pete has so thoroughly salted the earth that removing him would salt the earth even more?"

I know that isn't what you meant but yah, a mid season firing wouldn't be helpful in almost any regard. And hell, let him finish out his contract - if the roster is this borked and Pete is confused about meeting his own stated objectives with action, better he live with it for another year and eat all the humiliation and legacy hit instead of a new guy.

Tabula Rasa in 2020.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Also, the comparison of Coughlin to Pete is funny.

They are literally polar opposites. Not just because he beat the Patriots and Pete didn't.

On almost every level. Coughlin is as close to the anti-Pete as I can think of. They both liked Defense so they share that.

 

[WorcesterHawks]

Pete has 2-3 years left in him tops.

We are in the middle of a full rebuild, potentially losing our franchise QB (either due to trade, injury, or after no longer being able to tag him).

There is no scenario where Pete plus the above results in even a team that becomes a playoff threat. Worst case he treads water, eeks us to 7-9 records and we have to blow everything up once he leaves - only this time we have no choice of whether to build around the QB because we won't have one.

Wilson is either a great QB in waiting that has been held back or a flawed QB that Pete's work has done a lot to hide problems in. Either way, we won't know until we test. And the only potential future this team has is if either:

1 - We can get a boatload of picks in trade for Wilson and rebuild

2 - Wilson can be the great QB once we remove Pete's weird gameplans and fetters.

There is no scenario where keeping Pete benefits us enough to justify keeping him. There are scenarios where removing Pete might at least give us insight into the Wilson dilemma before we have to make hard choices on him. (maybe).

You have to look at where the upside is and what the risk is.

In keeping Pete, we gain what?

In releasing Pete, we risk what?

Couldn't agree more with this. A decision must be made at some point this season and it will be one that (I think) will shape the future 10 years of this team.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I know that isn't what you meant but yah, a mid season firing wouldn't be helpful in almost any regard. And hell, let him finish out his contract - if the roster is this borked and Pete is confused about meeting his own stated objectives with action, better he live with it for another year and eat all the humiliation and legacy hit instead of a new guy.

Tabula Rasa in 2020.

I'd only want him to finish out his contract if he shows me more than he's shown so far this year. Because right now? Pete looks like a doddering old coach that the game's passed by like a freight train.

I look around the league and see the next crop of young hungry innovative and dynamic coaches like McVay, Peterson, Nagy, Shanahan, etc who have the pulse of not only scheme and playcalling, but the players.

So Pete's gotta show us he still has it;

- defensive prowess
- command of the locker room and team
- ability to manage his coaches and players
- players buying into his "program"
- ability to develop

If not? See ya Pete. Love you, but it's time to move on.

 

[NJlargent]

I’m ok waiting to the end of the season to toss him but if any of our good players, especially Wilson, start openly sulking or complaining (such as the timeout) then he should be fired immediately. Otherwise finding a decent replacement will be tough because no one decent will want to come here