Is our QB giving us $20 million a season's worth?

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Here’s my 2 cents...

He is an absolute steal at $20M.

To get the production we’re getting out of him vs the cap cost (true cost for everyone except Paul Allen) is great.

His game is far from perfect but I’m very confident he will continue to grow and do better things. He’s just that type of guy, I’m hoping Seattle goes offense beach this off season just to see what he can do with an even better supporting cast.

The very fact he was/is in the MVP discussion behind the OL that has been fielded for most of the year is unbelievable when you really think about it.
 
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IndyHawk

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FidelisHawk":2i6rkc38 said:
IndyHawk":2i6rkc38 said:
This is a question and not meant to flame anyone so let's be civil here.

I’ll try to answer without sounding too sanctimonious.

I was watching Oakland with their great OL and yes great RB so here we are.

While the score allowed Oakland to truly stay dedicated to their game plan, run the ball and take shots down field (vary comparable to what the Seahawks try to do), in the end Marshawn still only averaged 3.8 ypc very similar to Davis’ 4.0, Of coarse Russells three TDs proved the difference in a Seahawk win compared to Carr’s one in their loss.

Honestly I feel like with PC as coach he is not and it may not be on him.
We won a SB with a game manager,great D and great RB so that may be all we need?

There have been teams that have won Superbowls without great QB play, but by far most, have had QBs that are playing at a superior or elite level with their peers. Even fewer teams still can consistently win without that kind of play from their QB. To assume any QB can do that is a dangerous road to attempt to travel.


On RW end I feel like he is limited in seeing the field and locks on one Wr too much.

Nobody seems to think that about the next shortest QB in the league (Brees). There are some who tend to think Russell plays “sandlot” football too much which should dispel any notion he “locks on to” any one person or thing. But as fans, I think we see what we want to see more often than not, so to each their own.

I also do not feel he takes control like an elite would and lead the offense.

He is over 80% of the Seahawks offense now, I suppose he could be over 90%, but I’m not sure if that would be better or worse.

I guess at this stage I feel like we should be seeing more from him (audibles/checking off).

I’m pretty sure he does, there are people that feel he’s at his best during a two minute drills or hurry-up offenses when he is making decisions at the line. More or less, I’m not convinced that’s this offense’s problem.

The not stepping into the pocket or being lazy at it gets to me.He is not getting faster.

Again I believe he does, perhaps not as often as, you, the coaches, other fans, or even I would like, but on the other hand he is one of the best QBs in the league outside the pocket with the ball in his hands. To limit that part of his game would be limiting one of his strengths. But here I tend to agree, I think it would benefit him more if he did stepped up into a clean pocket more often, assuming there is one to move in to, as opposed to bailing out as often as he does.

My answer again at this point is no and I'm not so sure it gets better with any OC.
:icon_new: :icon_new: :icon_new: :icon_new: :icon_new: :icon_new: :icon_new: :icon_new: :icon_new: :icon_new: :icon_new: :icon_new:

Here it’s hard to say. Would a different OC better fit Wilson’s style of play, or is Russell talented enough to fit another OC’s style of offense? Personally I think it’s the latter, if required to, he is talented enough to succeed in any style offense he’s ask to play. I’m just not certain that is the only problem with this offense.

Finally in answer to the title question, in a world where adults are paid millions of dollars to entertain the masses, be it sport games, movies, TV, theater, or concerts, Russell probably falls about right in what it cost for him to entertain us.
Certainly some good points in here and many by others as well.
It was a pretty civil thread and I expected to get flamed by certain people but overall I think it went well.
I certainly will soak in a lot of the points and may feel better about our $20 million QB after all said.
I will not necessarily stop pointing out what I feel he should be doing by this point.
Happy New Year guys..Go Hawks!!!
 

NFSeahawks

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This thread pisses me off because it's our shitty coaches that hold Russ back.

Failure to build a decent offensive line, and failure to run what would work best for his skill set.
 

SoulfishHawk

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Why make Graham block when he sucks at it? Makes zero sense.
And as far as Russ goes, it's common for them to seem clueless on how to use his skill set. Especially behind that pathetic O Line. Instead of letting him roll out and create, something they'll just leave him in the pocket to get killed.
 

SpokaneHawks

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Stan Gelbaugh, Rich Miter, John Kitna, and on and on. The answer is yes Wilson as much as he frustrates us is worth every got damned penny and probably more. We have a chance for a win in almost every game and it's because of him.
 

WilsonMVP

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bmorepunk":30vxqt3p said:
StaffAmerica74":30vxqt3p said:
So you start out by saying you were watching Oakland with a great oline and rb... then you ask if Wilson is worth 20 million... You are aware that Derek Carr is paid 25 million a year, right?

Yep, Carr starts costing $25 million/year next year against the cap. And the Raiders already have a losing season with that OL and running game OP is touting.

Wilson is "worth" $20 million a year because of what the market dictates. Some people were clamoring to get rid of him because of the cost, but few teams have quarterbacks that are even decent from year to year, much less good or great. Russell Wilson is "worth $20 million a year because:

Drew Stanton (and really, Carson Palmer)
Tyrod Taylor
Mitchell Trubisky
Brock Osweiler
Blake Bortles
Jay Cutler
Bryce Petty
T.J. Yates
Brett Hundley
Jacoby Brissett
DeShone Kizer (maybe his fortunes will look up, but man)

These guys suck. They suck. That's eight teams without even serviceable QBs, because they can't find anyone or their guy is injured.


Then we have this batch:

Kirk Cousins
Eli Manning
Philip Rivers
Derek Carr
Alex Smith
Andy Dalton
Joe Flacco
Matt Stafford

These guys are somewhere on the spectrum from meh to really good depending on the guy and year. But none are reasonably consistently good, and these guys are almost all making Wilson money or better.

There's some younger guys (Winston, Mariotta, Goff, Wentz) that it will take a little while longer to gauge. And there are your really good to great quarterbacks.

Wilson is worth it because the probability of finding someone to replace him that will be anywhere near as good as him is really low. When was the last time a non-Patriots team in the AFC East had a really good quarterback from year to year? How about the NFC West? How about the AFC South?

Sure, you might get that occasional 2000 Ravens run, but if you don't have at least a good quarterback you're not going to do well from year to year and a have a good shot at winning a Super Bowl. And good quarterbacks or better are hard to come by. Which is why they get paid so much.

The AFC East outside the pats has to have had the worst run in the history of the NFL of Starting QBs since brady has been there..I know an article written in the offseason said Cutler was the 43rd QB to start in the AFC East in the Brady era, which itself is freaking INSANE...

Dolphins
John Beck, Daunte Culpepper, A.J. Feeley, Jay Fiedler, Gus Frerotte, Trent Green, Brian Griese, Joey Harrington, Chad Henne, Cleo Lemon, Ray Lucas, Matt Moore, Chad Pennington, Sage Rosenfels, Ryan Tannehill and Tyler Thigpen.

BILLS
Drew Bledsoe, Brian Brohm, Matt Cassel, Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kelly Holcomb, Rob Johnson, Thaddeus Lewis, J.P. Losman, EJ Manuel, Kyle Orton, Tyrod Taylor, Jeff Tuel and Alex Van Pelt

JETS
Brooks Bollinger, Quincy Carter, Kellen Clemens, Brett Favre, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Greg McElroy, Chad Pennington, Bryce Petty, Mark Sanchez, Geno Smith, Vinny Testaverde and Mike Vick.

If you were to make a top 5...I dont even know where you would start.

Pennington is prob the best QB out of all those when he was playing but was derailed by injury. Favre was pretty old and played ok. Sanchez had an ok run.

This list above is the reason the Patriots have so many playoff appearances and superbowls because their division is so god awful that they are almost guaranteed a bye just because Brady is inf better than any other QB that has played in the AFC LEast
 

Russ Willstrong

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Seeing that you're from Indiana I thought you were referring to Andrew Luck! Luck definitely isn't earning his 25 million.
 

jammerhawk

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Is this a serious question??? Is he worth what he is paid.

Without a doubt he's almost the whole Offense, OK 85% of it statistically.

He's a MVP candidate.

He's setting team records as a QB.

If this was a serious question who would you want to replace him with?

Holy Moly, this place sometimes?
 

randomation

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35 of 36 scores are on the hands or feet of Russ at this point Bevell should be giving him his paycheck since he is singlehandedly making Bevell look semi competent at times.

Edit: Also go back and watch Russ's first two years we don't beat SF with a "game manager" we don't come back against ATL to squander a lead with 30 freaking seconds via that D with a game manager. We don't become first seed with a game manager hell we might not go to the playoffs with a game manager Wilson had the most come from behind victories ever in his first two seasons, game managers don't do that. Amazing players who are handcuffed by idiotic playcalling until the fourth quarter do.
 

NINEster

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sutz":bpuyj9ba said:
Fans arguing about players "earning" their salaries.

:laugh: :rofl:

:snack:

It's not about the actual money but cap dedication.

2013 Wilson playing for peanuts vs. current Wilson at 20+.

There are about three tiers for entrenched NFL starting QBs:

$15-18/million per year
$19-24/million per year
$25-30/million per year

Where this is coming up right now in the NFL, are guys like Kirk Cousins who are obviously good but Redskins fans have doubts about him. So while they complain about him like good fans do, when it comes down to it, they want him at $17M per let's say, versus $25+.

To not want him at all is a mistake without a real alternative (i.e. not Colt McCoy).

In Wilson's case he makes sensational highlights and clutch drives worthy of $30M per year, but typical offensive production drive to drive is closer to that $15-18/million per year bracket. Maybe that averages out to $20-22M per year.

Another way to look at those QB salaries is how far are you expected to go in the playoffs with that QB (looking at it loosely here):

$15-18: Wildcard win, average chance of divisional win
$20-25: Expected Divisional win, occasional championship win
$25-30: Consistent divisional win, major threat for conference win

The assumption above is of franchise QBs no longer on rookie contracts, expected to carry the team. Wilson and Flacco winning SBs on rookie contracts makes this all fair. These two have won Super Bowls but haven't done much damage since getting paid, and it's not shocking to see why when the rest of the team has to suffer cap wise.

Alex Smith on loaded Niner team making $8M got them into one conference game, but since then he has yet to move past the divisional round. His $17M per salary is on point, and without maybe winning the AFCC or the SB this year, it should stay there.

Wilson has not won a divisional playoff game in his last two attempts and if he fails to do so a third time, his $20M+ salary could be called into question. Especially if he is pushing over $25M per.

Flacco is another one not earning his full ride. Threatened in 2014 against NE in the playoffs but lost. Hasn't been to the playoffs otherwise since hoisting the Lombardi, and if I'm mistaken, he didn't do much either.
 

Anthony!

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NINEster":7e2v1zly said:
sutz":7e2v1zly said:
Fans arguing about players "earning" their salaries.

:laugh: :rofl:

:snack:

It's not about the actual money but cap dedication.

2013 Wilson playing for peanuts vs. current Wilson at 20+.

There are about three tiers for entrenched NFL starting QBs:

$15-18/million per year
$19-24/million per year
$25-30/million per year

Where this is coming up right now in the NFL, are guys like Kirk Cousins who are obviously good but Redskins fans have doubts about him. So while they complain about him like good fans do, when it comes down to it, they want him at $17M per let's say, versus $25+.

To not want him at all is a mistake without a real alternative (i.e. not Colt McCoy).

In Wilson's case he makes sensational highlights and clutch drives worthy of $30M per year, but typical offensive production drive to drive is closer to that $15-18/million per year bracket. Maybe that averages out to $20-22M per year.

Another way to look at those QB salaries is how far are you expected to go in the playoffs with that QB (looking at it loosely here):

$15-18: Wildcard win, average chance of divisional win
$20-25: Expected Divisional win, occasional championship win
$25-30: Consistent divisional win, major threat for conference win

The assumption above is of franchise QBs no longer on rookie contracts, expected to carry the team. Wilson and Flacco winning SBs on rookie contracts makes this all fair. These two have won Super Bowls but haven't done much damage since getting paid, and it's not shocking to see why when the rest of the team has to suffer cap wise.

Alex Smith on loaded Niner team making $8M got them into one conference game, but since then he has yet to move past the divisional round. His $17M per salary is on point, and without maybe winning the AFCC or the SB this year, it should stay there.

Wilson has not won a divisional playoff game in his last two attempts and if he fails to do so a third time, his $20M+ salary could be called into question. Especially if he is pushing over $25M per.

Flacco is another one not earning his full ride. Threatened in 2014 against NE in the playoffs but lost. Hasn't been to the playoffs otherwise since hoisting the Lombardi, and if I'm mistaken, he didn't do much either.

Dude this is the Biggest bunch of made up crap I have ever seen. First, you start by cap dedication or % then you don't say anything else about it, why because you know that does not meet your agenda as Rw only takes up 15 mil in cap and is way down on the %. The reality is a Franchise QB gives you a chance to make the playoff and more every year Period. Without one you don't simple. So how much is knowing you have a chance every year worth? Answer alot. The Seahawk currently only spend 9.15% of their cap on the Qbs that inlcudes Wilson. So sorry dude you are way off and spoken like a fan of a team that has not had a Franchise QB since Steve Young. The reality is when your QB is making up over 85% of the offensive yards and over 97% of the offensive TDsan giving you a chance every night, with no run game a substandard oline and bad play calling and design and most of your money goes to the defense then he is worth every penny. Enough said
 

adeltaY

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That post about tiers is crazy. Which QB outside of Brady regularly wins his division? Can't think of a single one. Steelers maybe? Which QB has won divisional games consistently outside of Brady? Maybe Ben again? Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Ryan, etc. all fail to meet your criteria.

Sounds like the only guy worth 25M is Brady and guess what he earns way less than that. Feels like another niners fan post framed as objective yet "subtly" denigrating our QB.
 

Anthony!

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adeltaY":2qw7y0xy said:
That post about tiers is crazy. Which QB outside of Brady regularly wins his division? Can't think of a single one. Steelers maybe? Which QB has won divisional games consistently outside of Brady? Maybe Ben again? Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Ryan, etc. all fail to meet your criteria.

Sounds like the only guy worth 25M is Brady and guess what he earns way less than that. Feels like another niners fan post framed as objective yet "subtly" denigrating our QB.


Not to mention, there are other factors like toughness of division, players around the QB, toughness of schedule, etc
 

getnasty

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adeltaY":14xcwzot said:
That post about tiers is crazy. Which QB outside of Brady regularly wins his division? Can't think of a single one. Steelers maybe? Which QB has won divisional games consistently outside of Brady? Maybe Ben again? Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Ryan, etc. all fail to meet your criteria.

Sounds like the only guy worth 25M is Brady and guess what he earns way less than that. Feels like another niners fan post framed as objective yet "subtly" denigrating our QB.

You could say the same thing about our coaching staff.
 

adeltaY

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getnasty":30jnw4xn said:
adeltaY":30jnw4xn said:
That post about tiers is crazy. Which QB outside of Brady regularly wins his division? Can't think of a single one. Steelers maybe? Which QB has won divisional games consistently outside of Brady? Maybe Ben again? Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Ryan, etc. all fail to meet your criteria.

Sounds like the only guy worth 25M is Brady and guess what he earns way less than that. Feels like another niners fan post framed as objective yet "subtly" denigrating our QB.

You could say the same thing about our coaching staff.

True. The coaching staff is responsible for the entire team though, so a lack of sustainer success is more attributable to them than a single player in the QB.
 
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IndyHawk

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Russ Willstrong":1tjqk08a said:
Seeing that you're from Indiana I thought you were referring to Andrew Luck! Luck definitely isn't earning his 25 million.
:lol: :2thumbs: Good one..
The last few Luck posts-I was going off on how stupid the Colts were and how weak he is.
 
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