Is our QB giving us $20 million a season's worth?

[hgwellz12]

Dear God!

 

[hgwellz12]

Is it worth waiting in a 6 car queue for gas that's $.03 cheaper than the place across the street?

 

[NINEster]

Fans arguing about players "earning" their salaries.

:laugh: :rofl:

:snack:

It's not about the actual money but cap dedication.

2013 Wilson playing for peanuts vs. current Wilson at 20+.

There are about three tiers for entrenched NFL starting QBs:

$15-18/million per year
$19-24/million per year
$25-30/million per year

Where this is coming up right now in the NFL, are guys like Kirk Cousins who are obviously good but Redskins fans have doubts about him. So while they complain about him like good fans do, when it comes down to it, they want him at $17M per let's say, versus $25+.

To not want him at all is a mistake without a real alternative (i.e. not Colt McCoy).

In Wilson's case he makes sensational highlights and clutch drives worthy of $30M per year, but typical offensive production drive to drive is closer to that $15-18/million per year bracket. Maybe that averages out to $20-22M per year.

Another way to look at those QB salaries is how far are you expected to go in the playoffs with that QB (looking at it loosely here):

$15-18: Wildcard win, average chance of divisional win
$20-25: Expected Divisional win, occasional championship win
$25-30: Consistent divisional win, major threat for conference win

The assumption above is of franchise QBs no longer on rookie contracts, expected to carry the team. Wilson and Flacco winning SBs on rookie contracts makes this all fair. These two have won Super Bowls but haven't done much damage since getting paid, and it's not shocking to see why when the rest of the team has to suffer cap wise.

Alex Smith on loaded Niner team making $8M got them into one conference game, but since then he has yet to move past the divisional round. His $17M per salary is on point, and without maybe winning the AFCC or the SB this year, it should stay there.

Wilson has not won a divisional playoff game in his last two attempts and if he fails to do so a third time, his $20M+ salary could be called into question. Especially if he is pushing over $25M per.

Flacco is another one not earning his full ride. Threatened in 2014 against NE in the playoffs but lost. Hasn't been to the playoffs otherwise since hoisting the Lombardi, and if I'm mistaken, he didn't do much either.

Dude this is the Biggest bunch of made up crap I have ever seen. First, you start by cap dedication or % then you don't say anything else about it, why because you know that does not meet your agenda as Rw only takes up 15 mil in cap and is way down on the %. The reality is a Franchise QB gives you a chance to make the playoff and more every year Period. Without one you don't simple. So how much is knowing you have a chance every year worth? Answer alot. The Seahawk currently only spend 9.15% of their cap on the Qbs that inlcudes Wilson. So sorry dude you are way off and spoken like a fan of a team that has not had a Franchise QB since Steve Young. The reality is when your QB is making up over 85% of the offensive yards and over 97% of the offensive TDsan giving you a chance every night, with no run game a substandard oline and bad play calling and design and most of your money goes to the defense then he is worth every penny. Enough said

Go at the OP for a thread title stating "$20 million worth". I used his #....I didn't come up with it out of thin air.

And FWIW, a few posters on this site have criticized Wilson in ways that I might get banned for if I said it.

We'll get the answer we need in a few weeks. Get back to the NFCC in the current state of Hawkdom and Wilson is worth $20M+.

I

 

[Seymour]

Wilson is such an interesting QB.

He clearly, as stats are showing, does so much for the team.

But he also infuriates the crap out of you with some mind numbing decisions. He's great, but also flawed. the great thing about RW is he gives the impression he's both self aware and self motivated to continue to develop.

So.. is he worth $20 million? Absolutely, not just because of what he is but what he can be

I mostly agree with one exception. I will not call them "mind numbing decisions" when I think about them for 10 seconds to a minute and he has to make them often in under 1 second. Best I can do is "irritating decisions".

 

[Uncle Si]

Go at the OP for a thread title stating "$20 million worth". I used his #....I didn't come up with it out of thin air.

And FWIW, a few posters on this site have criticized Wilson in ways that I might get banned for if I said it.

We'll get the answer we need in a few weeks. Get back to the NFCC in the current state of Hawkdom and Wilson is worth $20M+.

I

I'd say his worth is not going to be based on the next 3 weeks. That's an illogical benchmark to assess his value from.

 

[NINEster]

That post about tiers is crazy. Which QB outside of Brady regularly wins his division? Can't think of a single one. Steelers maybe? Which QB has won divisional games consistently outside of Brady? Maybe Ben again? Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Ryan, etc. all fail to meet your criteria.

Sounds like the only guy worth 25M is Brady and guess what he earns way less than that. Feels like another niners fan post framed as objective yet "subtly" denigrating our QB.

This is one of those college classes were there is no curve.

If everyone is supposed to fail, that's what will happen.

However, the way the market rates are set, if you don't pay someone else will. So you pay.

Because ultimately winning regular season games and having a shot at the playoffs is better than trying to piece together a team with a game manager, great OL/RB, great defense. That latter combination wins SB so infrequently that it's hard to consistently pull off. Right now, looking at Jacksonville on this one.

Wilson appears in two consecutive SBs and then next two (three?) years doesn't get past the divisional round.

Coincidentally he got paid right in between those last two SBs and last two playoff appearances.

Many of his similarly paid peers are in a similar boat without any SB appearances. Matt Stafford, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Romo was....etc.

Shouldn't take it so personally.

Wilson worth $20M+ to get good numbers and Seahawks into post season -- yes.
Wilson worth $20M+ to advance Seattle deep into postseason with team built around him -- right now, no.

Cam Newton technically broke this rule by going to the SB on his first season of the contract extension.

But then last year the team stunk.

So is he worth it?

He was absolutely the first year. Last year no. This year, don't know.

On a year by year basis, this question can be answered just by looking at Cam Newton.

 

[Uncle Si]

That whole argument contradicts itself (maybe that was the point?).You dont value a QB (or any positional player for that matter) on a year to year basis (unless they are set up on 1 year contracts).

How much is Jimmy G worth now that he has won 4 games in a row? Does his value drop if he loses Sunday?

 

[Seymour]

That whole argument contradicts itself (maybe that was the point?).You dont value a QB (or any positional player for that matter) on a year to year basis (unless they are set up on 1 year contracts).

How much is Jimmy G worth now that he has won 4 games in a row? Does his value drop if he loses Sunday?

I would like to know how Jimmy G "wins 4 games is a row", when we have lost 2 of our last 4 games. That makes no sense to me.

 

[NINEster]

By pure stats and highlights.....Wilson definitely worth $20 million this season.

You'll have to judge worth on an overall assessment based on wins, statistics, highlights, postseason threat.

It will mean something different for every person.

By some metrics, Wilson is worth $30 million this season and by others $17 million.

 

[Uncle Si]

That whole argument contradicts itself (maybe that was the point?).You dont value a QB (or any positional player for that matter) on a year to year basis (unless they are set up on 1 year contracts).

How much is Jimmy G worth now that he has won 4 games in a row? Does his value drop if he loses Sunday?

I would like to know how Jimmy G "wins 4 games is a row", when we have lost 2 of our last 4 games. That makes no sense to me.

San Fran QB, not Seahawks TE

 

[Seymour]

I've never considered Graham a TE. He's a big WR.

...and that's because he does not know how to block!!!!!!!!!

Correction. Pete and Cable have spent a lot of time working on blocking with Graham. He definitely "knows how" to block. He just doesn't care to block because he is soft and one of several reasons he was a poor investment for this team.

 

[NINEster]

That whole argument contradicts itself (maybe that was the point?).You dont value a QB (or any positional player for that matter) on a year to year basis (unless they are set up on 1 year contracts).

How much is Jimmy G worth now that he has won 4 games in a row? Does his value drop if he loses Sunday?

I'm basing Wilson's worth purely pre-contract extension versus post.

The way the Packers are rubbish every year but always dangerous because of Rodgers is why he's worth everything he gets. Brady is similar in that regard even though he doesn't get paid as much.

If it were up to most GMs being fair.....a majority of NFL QBs should get paid $15-17 million a year max.

 

[NINEster]

That whole argument contradicts itself (maybe that was the point?).You dont value a QB (or any positional player for that matter) on a year to year basis (unless they are set up on 1 year contracts).

How much is Jimmy G worth now that he has won 4 games in a row? Does his value drop if he loses Sunday?

I would like to know how Jimmy G "wins 4 games is a row", when we have lost 2 of our last 4 games. That makes no sense to me.

San Fran QB, not Seahawks TE

I misread one of the threads in .NET Nation the other way, myself. :mrgreen:

 

[Seymour]

That whole argument contradicts itself (maybe that was the point?).You dont value a QB (or any positional player for that matter) on a year to year basis (unless they are set up on 1 year contracts).

How much is Jimmy G worth now that he has won 4 games in a row? Does his value drop if he loses Sunday?

I would like to know how Jimmy G "wins 4 games is a row", when we have lost 2 of our last 4 games. That makes no sense to me.

San Fran QB, not Seahawks TE

I misread one of the threads in .NET Nation the other way, myself. :mrgreen:

I misread nothing. "Jimmy G" on a Seahawks board means Jimmy Graham....every single day.

 

[Uncle Si]

I've never considered Graham a TE. He's a big WR.

...and that's because he does not know how to block!!!!!!!!!

Correction. Pete and Cable have spent a lot of time working on blocking with Graham. He definitely "knows how" to block. He just doesn't care to block because he is soft and one of several reasons he was a poor investment for this team.

He's a perfectly fine investment if the team used his strengths more effectively. Sure, he could block better. he could also be thrown to more.

But therein lies the bigger question, are we a smashmouth, running football team still?

 

[Uncle Si]

I would like to know how Jimmy G "wins 4 games is a row", when we have lost 2 of our last 4 games. That makes no sense to me.

San Fran QB, not Seahawks TE

I misread one of the threads in .NET Nation the other way, myself. :mrgreen:

I misread nothing. "Jimmy G" on a Seahawks board means Jimmy Graham....every single day.

I didnt know how to spell his last name, so I cheated

 

[Seymour]

I've never considered Graham a TE. He's a big WR.

...and that's because he does not know how to block!!!!!!!!!

Correction. Pete and Cable have spent a lot of time working on blocking with Graham. He definitely "knows how" to block. He just doesn't care to block because he is soft and one of several reasons he was a poor investment for this team.

He's a perfectly fine investment if the team used his strengths more effectively. Sure, he could block better. he could also be thrown to more.

But therein lies the bigger question, are we a smashmouth, running football team still?

No. But will we go to our 2017 graves trying to be? Yes.

This is now year 2 we ignore our real strengths and continue into the brick wall.

 

[Seymour]

San Fran QB, not Seahawks TE

I misread one of the threads in .NET Nation the other way, myself. :mrgreen:

I misread nothing. "Jimmy G" on a Seahawks board means Jimmy Graham....every single day.

I didnt know how to spell his last name, so I cheated

Ya...you get a pass for that last name for sure.

 

[hawknation2017]

We have no fullback. Our TEs suck at blocking. We hardly ever use an extra lineman. Our best running backs are a castoff from the practice squad and a rookie 7th round pick (who is hurt).

The Seahawks are 20th in the league in rushing attempts, even with Russell Wilson's 90 scrambles. In 2016, the Seahawks were also 20th in rushing attempts. This myth that the Seahawks are "ignoring our real strengths and continuing into the brick wall" needs to die. We haven't run the ball consistently since 2015.

 

[Anthony!]

Fans arguing about players "earning" their salaries.

:laugh: :rofl:

:snack:

It's not about the actual money but cap dedication.

2013 Wilson playing for peanuts vs. current Wilson at 20+.

There are about three tiers for entrenched NFL starting QBs:

$15-18/million per year
$19-24/million per year
$25-30/million per year

Where this is coming up right now in the NFL, are guys like Kirk Cousins who are obviously good but Redskins fans have doubts about him. So while they complain about him like good fans do, when it comes down to it, they want him at $17M per let's say, versus $25+.

To not want him at all is a mistake without a real alternative (i.e. not Colt McCoy).

In Wilson's case he makes sensational highlights and clutch drives worthy of $30M per year, but typical offensive production drive to drive is closer to that $15-18/million per year bracket. Maybe that averages out to $20-22M per year.

Another way to look at those QB salaries is how far are you expected to go in the playoffs with that QB (looking at it loosely here):

$15-18: Wildcard win, average chance of divisional win
$20-25: Expected Divisional win, occasional championship win
$25-30: Consistent divisional win, major threat for conference win

The assumption above is of franchise QBs no longer on rookie contracts, expected to carry the team. Wilson and Flacco winning SBs on rookie contracts makes this all fair. These two have won Super Bowls but haven't done much damage since getting paid, and it's not shocking to see why when the rest of the team has to suffer cap wise.

Alex Smith on loaded Niner team making $8M got them into one conference game, but since then he has yet to move past the divisional round. His $17M per salary is on point, and without maybe winning the AFCC or the SB this year, it should stay there.

Wilson has not won a divisional playoff game in his last two attempts and if he fails to do so a third time, his $20M+ salary could be called into question. Especially if he is pushing over $25M per.

Flacco is another one not earning his full ride. Threatened in 2014 against NE in the playoffs but lost. Hasn't been to the playoffs otherwise since hoisting the Lombardi, and if I'm mistaken, he didn't do much either.

Dude this is the Biggest bunch of made up crap I have ever seen. First, you start by cap dedication or % then you don't say anything else about it, why because you know that does not meet your agenda as Rw only takes up 15 mil in cap and is way down on the %. The reality is a Franchise QB gives you a chance to make the playoff and more every year Period. Without one you don't simple. So how much is knowing you have a chance every year worth? Answer alot. The Seahawk currently only spend 9.15% of their cap on the Qbs that inlcudes Wilson. So sorry dude you are way off and spoken like a fan of a team that has not had a Franchise QB since Steve Young. The reality is when your QB is making up over 85% of the offensive yards and over 97% of the offensive TDsan giving you a chance every night, with no run game a substandard oline and bad play calling and design and most of your money goes to the defense then he is worth every penny. Enough said

Go at the OP for a thread title stating "$20 million worth". I used his #....I didn't come up with it out of thin air.

And FWIW, a few posters on this site have criticized Wilson in ways that I might get banned for if I said it.

We'll get the answer we need in a few weeks. Get back to the NFCC in the current state of Hawkdom and Wilson is worth $20M+.

I

NO I am going at your post because you made up a bunch of crap to fit your desired outcome. You should really go back to the niner board. We and any knowledgeable football fan have our answer on this YES.