QB Controversy

[LastRideOut]

I think they should start Lock but if he makes questionable decisions against the Titans like he did against the 9ers, then Geno should come in and get his job back.

That's an incredibly short leash for both players, and shortchanges the team. I'm glad we won tonight but there is a reason why Geno is the starter, and he will start the next game that he is healthy for.

 

[cymatica]

Momentum can die quickly. You don't want to be stuck with Josh Dobbs when the momentum ends.

This is fun as hell, but I'm going with the more proven guy who whipped his dong out on Dallas before getting hurt.

The controversy question should be handled in the offseason, ask me. But it depends on how the roster is feeling about it. I can't answer that one.

He played great against Dallas but looked completely inept several games this season. He's hit or miss

 

[renofox]

Geno vs Lions - 75 Yard Game Winning TD Drive
Geno vs Bengals - 51 yard 1 minute drive, turnover on downs.
Geno vs Browns - 57 yard game winning TD Drive
Geno vs Commanders - 75 yard go-ahead TD Drive, followed by 50 yard game winning FG drive
Geno vs Rams - 40 yard go-ahead FG drive, FG missed.
Geno vs Dallas - 2 drops kill drive.

Drew Lock has has 3TDs and 2 INTs in his two games starting, with a third of his yards thrown coming on the last drive of the second game where he was bailed out masterfully by DK.

Outside of the absolutely beautiful ball to Njigba to win the game, that was a horrid drive for him as far as accuracy. He's got a big arm and that was an emotional post game.

There's no controversy except in the minds of "what have you done for me lately" crowd

You talk a lot about all the Geno "HATERS" (i.e.; anybody who would rather see Lock start), but here you are trying to pump up Geno and shit all over Lock.

Lock just won the most energetic and entertaining game the Seahawks have played this year and all you can do is denigrate this week's winning Seahawk QB.

Wow.

 

[Maelstrom787]

He played great against Dallas but looked completely inept several games this season. He's hit or miss

The thing for me is that the entire offense looks inept in some games. It all seems hit or miss team-wide. I think what it really hinges on is the rushing game. If they can get anything going on the ground, they seem to be able to get themselves in position to at least have a chance.

This is why I'm so hard on the coordinators. They usually have the responsibility of implementing the detail-oriented fine points of the scheme, and that's where I think we lack. Leads to inconsistency team-wide.

Geno gets inside of his own head sometimes. I think Lock does too when looking at the larger context of his career. They both need a rushing attack to rely on to open up other concepts, or we'll get stuck regardless in the cycle of "okay, lets spam a few difficult intermediate passes that we're going to telegraph because we're behind schedule." that leads to punt after punt.

 

[DarkVictory23]

If that’s the case, ride the wave, until it dies.

What I’ve seen from Lock is (even if he’s a one read guy currently) is he gets the ball out quicker than Geno has.

That quicker throw game is benefiting the run game also. Geno, when he was playing, started to delay throws and sit in the pocket and was taking more sacks than he should have.

Lock is making the throws given to him and for that game winning drive, he had ice in his veins. That’s something Seattle needed badly most of this year.

Yes, the momentum can fizzle out but I think you ride that wave until it happens. Seattle doesn’t really have anything to lose and it’s been funner to watch with Lock the past two games and I’d to see what Lock can do until he can no longer do much.

Geno has been pressured on over a quarter of all drop backs, third worst in the league. He is getting sacked about 2.2 times a game, less than the league average. He is taking LESS sacks than you'd expect given pressure rate.

The pressure stats for this game aren't available yet, but if they are at all similar to last week, Lock is facing less pressure and yet taking more sacks than the league average. The exact opposite thing of what you seem to think is happening.

Similarly, I don't know what the success rate stats will be for this game, but Geno is top 10 in success rate this year. Drew's numbers last week would rate somewhere below top 32.

The wave, if there is one to ride, should be to figure out how to replicate what we did in the run game.

 

[LTH]

Gonna be an interesting week here at .net

Geno is the better QB at this point but man Lock is also a good QB.... it's really nice to know that Carroll has enough confidence in Lock to sub for Geno, that says a lot about Lock, because Geno could have played but the best move was letting Geno heal ... Lock stepped up and made it happen... that's a nice QB room...


LTH

 

[Maelstrom787]

You talk a lot about all the Geno "HATERS" (i.e.; anybody who would rather see Lock start), but here you are trying to pump up Geno and shit all over Lock.

Lock just won the most energetic and entertaining game the Seahawks have played this year and all you can do is denigrate this week's winning Seahawk QB.

Wow.

He was cheering for Lock to do well, just as we all were.

Be that all as it may, though, he was correcting a pretty severely misleading claim that devalues the entire conversation. We're not going to get anywhere if we have people just blaring total falsehoods over everyone else and letting it become truth to those who simply don't feel like conducting serious research to validate those claims.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I'm just happy that Geno and Drew seem to really genuinely have a good relationship, unlike their respective stans lol.

Those dudes root like hell for each other. Testament to both their team-centric attitudes and the organization for fostering that type of relationship.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I'm just happy that Geno and Drew seem to really genuinely have a good relationship, unlike their respective stans lol.

Those dudes root like hell for each other. Testament to both their team-centric attitudes and the organization for fostering that type of relationship.

Ayo I'm going to expand on this and just repost this.



Like, come on. Everyone hates everyone and we all have our opinions and shit, but yo. I love these dudes.

 

[olyfan63]

Trying to keep it simple...
To me, it's about NEXT YEAR.
We can lose the same games we lose with Geno with Lock, except LOSE MORE CHEAPLY. With Lock, maybe we can afford a couple more talented players to turn some of those L's into W's.

As someone pointed out, our D sucks because of a ROSTER TALENT deficit, not just the schemes, and this was proven when Uchenna went out and the D immediately started to suck balls. (Kind of like the 49ers without Trent Williams rag-dolling around our D-Linemen and LBs). But, we need to SIGN LOCK to a 2 year deal, at his current market value

So, I think the team's best move is to sign Lock to a team friendly 2-or-even-3 year deal, draft a QBOTF we want, tell Lock his job is to help groom our QBOTF, but the competition is OPEN for him to win. Release Geno at the most cap-friendly time.

Sure, I'd like to see more Drew Lock this season, and super-happy he got the start and balled out when needed. Yes, Geno is "better" overall, but the margin is so close, and against some teams/matchups, Lock is "better". I think it was Ryan Clark who pointed out Lock's excellent presnap reads on the 2 key plays on the winning drive. No way of knowing, but I have a hunch if Geno starts this game we lose close instead of win close. We give up a couple more sacks and have a couple more turnovers with Geno.

Of course, this is why none of us are NFL coaches or GMs or staff, this stuff is a roulette wheel with a cat on top pawing at the ball.

 

[DarkVictory23]

Sure, I'd like to see more Drew Lock this season, and super-happy he got the start and balled out when needed. Yes, Geno is "better" overall, but the margin is so close, and against some teams/matchups, Lock is "better". I think it was Ryan Clark who pointed out Lock's excellent presnap reads on the 2 key plays on the winning drive. No way of knowing, but I have a hunch if Geno starts this game we lose close instead of win close. We give up a couple more sacks and have a couple more turnovers with Geno.

Gah. I'm trying to be happy for Drew, but I look at stuff like this and it goes right back to trying to figure out why people's perceptions of Geno are so skewed.

That final drive was amazing, but Drew basically underperformed every single passing metric of what this Philly defense gives up. Total yards, yards per attempt, TDs, etc. He performed BELOW what the average QB performance is against Philly but because of one great drive, we think he overperformed.

Meanwhile, we think Geno is going to get sacked more and have a 'couple' more turnovers when Geno is only averaging 1 turnover per game and getting sacked at a lesser rate than Drew is.


I have no way of predicting how that game goes with Geno because I know our gameplan changes and who knows if we get KWIII to pop off like he did, but I wouldn't have been shocked if we won by multiple scores.

 

[rjdriver]

Trying to keep it simple...
To me, it's about NEXT YEAR.
We can lose the same games we lose with Geno with Lock, except LOSE MORE CHEAPLY. With Lock, maybe we can afford a couple more talented players to turn some of those L's into W's.

As someone pointed out, our D sucks because of a ROSTER TALENT deficit, not just the schemes, and this was proven when Uchenna went out and the D immediately started to suck balls. (Kind of like the 49ers without Trent Williams rag-dolling around our D-Linemen and LBs). But, we need to SIGN LOCK to a 2 year deal, at his current market value

So, I think the team's best move is to sign Lock to a team friendly 2-or-even-3 year deal, draft a QBOTF we want, tell Lock his job is to help groom our QBOTF, but the competition is OPEN for him to win. Release Geno at the most cap-friendly time.

Sure, I'd like to see more Drew Lock this season, and super-happy he got the start and balled out when needed. Yes, Geno is "better" overall, but the margin is so close, and against some teams/matchups, Lock is "better". I think it was Ryan Clark who pointed out Lock's excellent presnap reads on the 2 key plays on the winning drive. No way of knowing, but I have a hunch if Geno starts this game we lose close instead of win close. We give up a couple more sacks and have a couple more turnovers with Geno.

Of course, this is why none of us are NFL coaches or GMs or staff, this stuff is a roulette wheel with a cat on top pawing at the ball.

Even if you disagree with these assertions (I agree with them), I think this is a solid take that merits thought. It's not just Geno > Lock. The question moving forward will be is Geno > Lock + one or two key players we couldn't otherwise afford?

To start next year - I'd love a Lock + rookie QB + $ to shore up Williams and another player in lieu of just Geno + Lock.

 

[Titus Pullo]

Let's compare:

Age: Geno or Drew
Size: Geno or Drew
Mobility: Geno or Drew
Arm Strength: Geno or Drew
Touch: Geno or Drew
Accuracy: Geno or Drew
Leadership: Geno or Drew
Decision-making: Geno or Drew

 

[DarkVictory23]

Even if you disagree with these assertions (I agree with them), I think this is a solid take that merits thought. It's not just Geno > Lock. The question moving forward will be is Geno > Lock + one or two key players we couldn't otherwise afford?

To start next year - I'd love a Lock + rookie QB + $ to shore up Williams and another player in lieu of just Geno + Lock.

This is fair (even though I'm still trying to figure out what in the way these games have gone can allow someone to agree with these assertions. Lock is literally getting sacked more often than Geno on less pressure! Why do we keep acting like it's the other way around?! Gah!!), but to some degree I go... well, then why do we even care if we sign Lock?

If Lock already were signed, this is a completely different argument. But he's a FA and if he doesn't take another snap for us this year, his agent is going to try and spin this game winning drive into a payday somewhere. If we are talking about cutting Geno to draft a QBOTF, we can sign literally any vet we want for a similar deal. Lock isn't an experienced starter. For people who think Geno is mid, Lock is worse than Geno, so it's not like he's got that going for him.

Why not sign a more veteran dude to a similar contract to what we hope Lock will sign for and have HIM mentor our rookie? Lock is a dude who still needs to grow himself. He's not in a spot to groom his own replacement.

If we are good with a wholesale change at QB, there is no real reason to go with Lock other than he's here.

The only reason to keep Lock is if we think he IS the QBOTF or if we really value continuity.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Let's compare:

Age: Geno or Drew
Size: Geno or Drew
Mobility: Geno or Drew
Arm Strength: Geno or Drew
Touch: Geno or Drew
Accuracy: Geno or Drew
Leadership: Geno or Drew
Decision-making: Geno or Drew

Age: Drew, significantly
Size: Drew, but they're comparable from a pocket passer perspective in stature. They'll see the field about the same. Drew is built better for withstanding contact in the scrambling game, but I wouldn't want either of them to invite contact.
Mobility: Similar, but Drew is more apt to use it while Geno likes to operate from the pocket. Drew is better when he's not trying to escape, though. I think Geno and Drew are roughly equal in raw speed when both are healthy.
Arm Strength: Drew, but they're both above average in the zip department
Touch: Geno, significantly
Accuracy: Geno, significantly
Leadership: Probably Geno right now, but Lock could develop in that regard as Geno was not a good leader initially.
Decision-making: Geno unless Drew develops significantly in this regard. If Drew has to play the rest of the season, I'd really like to keep his reads highly pre-defined as they were tonight.

 

[TwilightError]

Go with the hot hand. The only way to make rest of the season interesting is to start Lock. What if he goes on a streak? Geno is more consistent but also not good enough.

 

[MD5eahawks]

What are we starting Lock for? If you're picking Lock so he can "develop", ok, I disagree with that approach, but I understand it.

If you're picking Lock because you think Geno is more hurt than they are letting on, ok.

If you're picking Lock because of a very middling performance against one of the worst pass defenses in the league and think this is an indication he is actually the better QB, I have no idea what the heck you are thinking.

Geno's last game, against Dallas, was an order of magnitude better than what we just saw from Drew and yet somehow there is "QB controversy"?

What is with the weird anti-Geno obsession with some of our fanbase?

Maybe it has something to do with all those well timed 3rd down sacks that take tgem out of FG range.

 

[LTH]

Yeah. Things opened up in the 2d half when K9 got going. I see Geno finishing the season, then there's a choice. I could see Lock being the guy next year if they can sign him back.

I really believe that Lock likes playing for the Seahawks. I believe he is willing to wait and learn if asked to do so because he knows that this is a good opportunity. Th e question is will Pete let him compete for the starting job?

Just my take

LTH

 

[Scout]

There is no controversy. Geno Smith is going to start the rest of the year -- though I think that Carroll should really should see what we have in Lock.

I feel the same way.

Lock is more than capable of running Waldron's offense which is very nice to see in a game that mattered a lot.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Seems like Drew's pocket presence at least keeps us out of more 3rd and longs. I could be nust making stuff up here but at least that's what it feels like.

3rd and long all night