Trevone Boykin--Is He Seahawks Back-up QB? poll & discussion

[MizzouHawkGal]

Looking at the numbers across the board ... you can make a strong case that Boykin and Dak Prescott had the 2 best performances among all the other rookie QB's who saw playing time. Not bad indeed.

Probably a good example of how stats don't tell the whole story. A good half of Boykin's yds were gained in the late 4th qtr when KC's scrubs were in and he was just throwing passes up for grabs (H-Mary's).

This whole discussion is an exercise in futility because if RW goes down, so goes the season. I can remember a time in the NFL when the back-up QB was the QB that was being groomed to take over the starting spot eventually. That no longer seems to be the case, but teams that have a real QB waiting in the wings have a real advantage over those that don't if a significant injury occurs.

Everyone is high on Boykin because, like the O-Line, they are desperate for anything that looks positive. People point to the fact that he was a Heisman finalist as validation of his credentials, but some of the biggest QB busts in NFL history were Heisman winners, not exactly a great recommendation. Then there is the RW comparison, Wilson runs a 4.5 40, Boykin a shade under 4.8, he runs about as fast as much taller QB's who are not valued for their speed. He was projected as a 6th round pick before he made a spectacularly bad decision and hit a cop. Speaking of stats, do you know the success rate of 6th round QB's that don't hit cops?

Given the fact that the Seahawks are rubbing hard up against the cap, and the fact that there is virtually nothing available, I guess he'll do for now.

I do know of some dude in Boston taken in the 6th round that turned out to be pretty decent. :stirthepot:

Fact is in the modern NFL with 20 million dollar quarterbacks if your starter is out for anymore then 4 games your season is done. Because of the money invested you can't actually sit a good quarterback for years like the good old days. If they're good you have them 3-4 years and hope to trade them if you have your franchise quarterback already. With Boykin we win in any scenario because he's UFDA and costed us zero draft capital.

 

[RussB]

Yup, hes the guy, showed raw talent and athleticism. He fits the scheme perfect .

 

[kearly]

Another factor to consider is that you probably won't find a backup veteran qb who is a clear upgrade Over Boykin without giving up a draft pick and possibly significant veteran salary. Seattle is already missing a 4th round pick next year as it is. Even with some compensatory picks coming, it might be a bit tough to surrender another draft pick. It's at least something that has to be weighed into the decision.

 

[Hawkscanner]

Looking at the numbers across the board ... you can make a strong case that Boykin and Dak Prescott had the 2 best performances among all the other rookie QB's who saw playing time. Not bad indeed.

Probably a good example of how stats don't tell the whole story. A good half of Boykin's yds were gained in the late 4th qtr when KC's scrubs were in and he was just throwing passes up for grabs (H-Mary's).

This whole discussion is an exercise in futility because if RW goes down, so goes the season. I can remember a time in the NFL when the back-up QB was the QB that was being groomed to take over the starting spot eventually. That no longer seems to be the case, but teams that have a real QB waiting in the wings have a real advantage over those that don't if a significant injury occurs.

Everyone is high on Boykin because, like the O-Line, they are desperate for anything that looks positive. People point to the fact that he was a Heisman finalist as validation of his credentials, but some of the biggest QB busts in NFL history were Heisman winners, not exactly a great recommendation. Then there is the RW comparison, Wilson runs a 4.5 40, Boykin a shade under 4.8, he runs about as fast as much taller QB's who are not valued for their speed. He was projected as a 6th round pick before he made a spectacularly bad decision and hit a cop. Speaking of stats, do you know the success rate of 6th round QB's that don't hit cops?

Given the fact that the Seahawks are rubbing hard up against the cap, and the fact that there is virtually nothing available, I guess he'll do for now.

I don't disagree really with anything you're saying ... I pretty much agree. No, you're correct -- stats don't tell the whole story. The reason I posted those was so that others could have a point of comparison between Boykin's performance ... with the performances of every other rookie QB who saw playing time this past Saturday. It wasn't to make any snap judgments and say -- WOW! we have a future Hall of Fame QB in the making here.

It surmise that like me, you're a bit older (somewhere around 40) and as such have watched quite a bit of football. Assuming that's true, you and I both know that Russell Wilson is the absolute exception -- not the rule in terms of rookie QB's. You just don't see rookie QB's come in ... snatch the starting job ... and do what Wilson did during his rookie season. It just doesn't happen. Off the top of my head, I can think of only a handful of guys during my lifetime who did that -- RG III (although, we know how his career has gone), Cam Newton, Ben Roethlisberger, Dan Marino ... and of course Russell Wilson. Even guys like Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman, and Joe Montana, had their struggles their first year.

What you see there in terms of those performances this past weekend throughout the league are more the norm. It's interesting how people compare Boykin to Tyrod Taylor (and I'd tend to concur) ... because he is a perfect example of the normal curve for rookies. Speaking of 6th Rounders, he was drafted in the 6th Round by the Ravens in 2011 ... but it took time for him to develop. He didn't truly grab the reigns and become a starting QB until last season when the Bills signed him. Matt Hasselbeck -- 6th Rounder -- same thing. It took him time. The norm for rookie QB's is that it takes a few years to really truly develop and mature.

As far as Heisman Trophy winners who flamed out? Absolutely right. Guys like Tim Tebow and Gino Torretta agree with you completely.

No, I'm just saying -- it's no longer like it used to be with back-up QB's. There aren't a whole ton of competent ones out there. Don't take my word for it -- go out and do your own research. You'll see what I mean. Given the lack of veteran options, I'm just saying that I believe he's going to be the guy. Ready or not. Like it or not. Let's all be knocking on wood and hope that Boykin is relegated to near 100% full time clip board duty for the foreseeable future.

 

[Hawkscanner]

Another factor to consider is that you probably won't find a backup veteran qb who is a clear upgrade Over Boykin without giving up a draft pick and possibly significant veteran salary. Seattle is already missing a 4th round pick next year as it is. Even with some compensatory picks coming, it might be a bit tough to surrender another draft pick. It's at least something that has to be weighed into the decision.

Right. And as I mentioned above, Schneider would ideally be looking for someone who (at least somewhat) matches the athletic and skill profile of Russell Wilson. Seriously, outside of Boykin, how many QB's are out there (who could potentially be available) who are at least somewhat of a cheap carbon copy? Not many. You can count them on 1 hand and even then probably not get through all the fingers. Tavaris Jackson? Maybe Mark Sanchez (though he's in the running for the starting job there in Denver) ... Kaepernick? (though I'm doubtful that could be workable situation here). Point being, there is a very small market size for the kinds of QB's Seattle would ideally be looking for. Not only would such a move be expensive (as you noted) ... but I'm not sure there's honestly really much available who would be much of an upgrade over what Boykin's going to give you. Agreed.

 

[Siouxhawk]

My hunch is that Pete and John are giving full reps to Boykin and Heaps now and have already agreed to bring in Tarvaris deeper into the preseason as they already know what he brings to the table.

 

[Sports Hernia]

My hunch is that Pete and John are giving full reps to Boykin and Heaps now and have already agreed to bring in Tarvaris deeper into the preseason as they already know what he brings to the table.

No offense, but I think the T-Jack ship in Seattle has sailed.
He might keep his eye on Dallas though as its just a matter of time before Romo does his annual broken clavicle routine.

 

[dogorama]

Okay, point taken and I didn't mean to disparage anyone for going to the trouble of posting the rookie QB stats, it's always fun to see that stuff. Nevertheless, real DB's don't let those prayers be caught AND how do you let a 6'6" guy get single coverage on the last play of the game?

And yes Mizzou, there are 6th rounders (who didn't hit a cop) that have been wildly successful but they, like RW as Hawkscanner pointed out, are statistical anomalies. The other part of what I was trying to point out was that people were saying that we only got Boykin as a UDFA is because of the incident, which is true, but he was only projected 6th round at best w/o the incident. As for any comparison to RW, he isn't nearly as fast, his hand size is borderline, and no one is comparable to Russell Wilson, he is a once-in-a-lifetime acquisition. Which brings up another point, this whole idea of scheme continuity, our utilization of the read-option isn't good because of the scheme, it's good because of the guy we have running it. On AC's carry for lost yds that was brought home when Boykin should have drawn the hand-off back in and ran w/it. Of course that's understandable given his level of experience, but you are going to find that it is very rare to find another QB to run the read like RW does.

Finally, there is Mizzou's point about the restrictions of developing QB's in this salary cap era of ballooning QB salaries. The whole reason QB salaries are so bloated is simple supply-and-demand economics, there simply aren't enough good QB's to go around. It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy really, how do you develop good QB's when you institute a salary cap and free agency that prevents it? Boykin may in fact develop into something very good, but it very unlikely we would ever get to see it applied here. I think this system is hurting the NFL ultimately as your whole season can boil down to whether you can keep your QB healthy or not.

Thanks for the responses guys, I really enjoy the back-and-forth as I am on IR myself and as such am somewhat of a captive audience, LOL.

 

[Siouxhawk]

My hunch is that Pete and John are giving full reps to Boykin and Heaps now and have already agreed to bring in Tarvaris deeper into the preseason as they already know what he brings to the table.

No offense, but I think the T-Jack ship in Seattle has sailed.
He might keep his eye on Dallas though as its just a matter of time before Romo does his annual broken clavicle routine.

It's possible. But it's equally plausible that they bring him back for his veteran presence and add Boykin to the practice squad.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

My hunch is that Pete and John are giving full reps to Boykin and Heaps now and have already agreed to bring in Tarvaris deeper into the preseason as they already know what he brings to the table.

No offense, but I think the T-Jack ship in Seattle has sailed.
He might keep his eye on Dallas though as its just a matter of time before Romo does his annual broken clavicle routine.

It's possible. But it's equally plausible that they bring hi back for his veteran presence and add Boykin to the practice squad.

Boykin would never see the practice squad. Accept that TJ is done here and possibly done in the NFL. Not even Dallas will go for him given last week's performances.

 

[Hawkscanner]

My hunch is that Pete and John are giving full reps to Boykin and Heaps now and have already agreed to bring in Tarvaris deeper into the preseason as they already know what he brings to the table.

No offense, but I think the T-Jack ship in Seattle has sailed.
He might keep his eye on Dallas though as its just a matter of time before Romo does his annual broken clavicle routine.

It's possible. But it's equally plausible that they bring him back for his veteran presence and add Boykin to the practice squad.

Pete and John may very well have it in mind to bring Tavaris back ... but I would think that would be a decision that would need to be carefully considered. Not only do you have all the turmoil (and potential PR headaches) with the stuff surrounding the incident with his wife ... but also, you have to also consider that he has had ZERO exposure to football since (shall we say) January. He's not been in any team's OTA, mini-camp, training camp -- whatever. Yes, he's got experience, but he's bound to be rusty and require time to get up to speed. You've also got to face the reality that T-Jack is now 33 years old. Now, QB's tend to have a longer shelf life than players at other positions, but I believe there also comes a point when a team has to start looking towards the future. PLUS, T-Jack is going to cost more than Trevone Boykin would (he made $1.5 million in 2015). Given all those factors combined, I'm thinking that they are going to choose to close the book on the T-Jack Era.

As far as Boykin ending up on the Practice Squad ... I'm highly doubtful that's going to happen. Given the dearth of back-up QB's out there (and how he's looked so far), I believe some team would gamble on his potential and snatch him right up. No chance whatsoever Boykin would make it through waivers IMO. Other teams GM's aren't THAT asleep at the wheel.

 

[dogorama]

Boykin would never see the practice squad. Accept that TJ is done here and possibly done in the NFL. Not even Dallas will go for him given last week's performances.

In the NFL it isn't what you have done, it's are you good enough that we can overlook it.

In TJ's case he isn't.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Boykin would never see the practice squad. Accept that TJ is done here and possibly done in the NFL. Not even Dallas will go for him given last week's performances.

In the NFL it isn't what you have done, it's are you good enough that we can overlook it.

In TJ's case he isn't.

Dallas has better and he's cheaper. There is a pattern here. I just assumed you knew about it? It's what happens when you pay one guy 20 million and up while having a hard rookie salary cap. Old guys with average talent and serious issues get an actual job and enter real life whether they like it or not.

 

[Siouxhawk]

My hunch is that Pete and John are giving full reps to Boykin and Heaps now and have already agreed to bring in Tarvaris deeper into the preseason as they already know what he brings to the table.

No offense, but I think the T-Jack ship in Seattle has sailed.
He might keep his eye on Dallas though as its just a matter of time before Romo does his annual broken clavicle routine.

It's possible. But it's equally plausible that they bring hi back for his veteran presence and add Boykin to the practice squad.

Boykin would never see the practice squad. Accept that TJ is done here and possibly done in the NFL. Not even Dallas will go for him given last week's performances.

Is that the fear of the week, that Boykin would be poached from the practice squad? He was passed over by every team in the draft, so not sold on that. And IT WOULD be Pete and John's character to bring back Tarvaris, a known commodity, if they thought he could help the team, so I don't believe that ship has sailed until another team signs him or the regular season begins.

 

[dogorama]

Boykin would never see the practice squad. Accept that TJ is done here and possibly done in the NFL. Not even Dallas will go for him given last week's performances.

In the NFL it isn't what you have done, it's are you good enough that we can overlook it.

In TJ's case he isn't.

Dallas has better and he's cheaper. There is a pattern here. I just assumed you knew about it? It's what happens when you pay one guy 20 million and up while having a hard rookie salary cap. Old guys with average talent and serious issues get an actual job and enter real life whether they like it or not.

Okay, mistook your inference. Edit: but you did say "serious issues" which brings me back to my original point.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Keep that TJ train going. It amuses me. He was average at best in Minnesota and Seattle. Personally I don't don't even buy that view and believe he sucked wherever he was at and stole money from both Minnesota and Seattle. Coinflipping aside.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Boykin would never see the practice squad. Accept that TJ is done here and possibly done in the NFL. Not even Dallas will go for him given last week's performances.

In the NFL it isn't what you have done, it's are you good enough that we can overlook it.

In TJ's case he isn't.

Dallas has better and he's cheaper. There is a pattern here. I just assumed you knew about it? It's what happens when you pay one guy 20 million and up while having a hard rookie salary cap. Old guys with average talent and serious issues get an actual job and enter real life whether they like it or not.

Okay, mistook your inference.

You're good in my book Dog.

 

[Siouxhawk]

As far as veteran backups go, Tarvaris would only cost the NFL minimum against the cap, so a great investment as an insurance policy. And as far as PR goes, there shouldn't be any backlash as he was cleared of all charges. As far as we know, an agreement is in place and Tarvaris will surface with the team next week.

 

[Ad Hawk]

It's possible. But it's equally plausible that they bring him back for his veteran presence and add Boykin to the practice squad.

It appears there is is some confusion in the above post between the meaning of "plausible" and "wishful", Souix. Plausible means reasonable or probable. Neither of which fits at this point. Wishful? Perhaps for you, it is. You remind us of this (over and over and over. I must commend you, though, on always putting T-Jack forward in such a gentle way.

Tarvaris will contribute less veteran presence now than Russell will, and more than that, the actual ability to get the job done on the field consistently. If TJ were going to be on the roster, he would already be in order to get reps with the new faces.

If he's still on the free agent market at this point, it speaks to his value to all the teams in the league each of which has far better scouts than any of us are, and some of which would take a veteran backup with solid skills at this point.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

As far as veteran backups go, Tarvaris would only cost the NFL minimum against the cap, so a great investment as an insurance policy. And as far as PR goes, there shouldn't be any backlash as he was cleared of all charges. As far as we know, an agreement is in place and Tarvaris will surface with the team next week.

So now we are keeping three quarterbacks? Really? There are other players we will keep over some average veteran backup quarterback on this current team. Wilson is that veteran quarterback and he's actually elite. He can mentor Boykin just fine by himself. Or what? Travaris is more intelligent then Wilson now?