******Rumor .........make of it what you will***************

[Hawkfan77]

Lynch is simply more important to his side of the ball. He's a singular player. Suh is a luxury that, for all we know, might be only playing a portion of those four years due to well-exhibited mental issues. I'm not opposed to this luxury, but if it's an either-or matter...

Suh is definitely not a "luxury" he's most likely the best defensive player in the league and plays a position that when played at the level he plays at, makes the entire unit better.

And no it's not a Lynch vs Suh debate.

 

[Basis4day]

If the rumored deal is at all accurate they can make up the money for Suh almost entirely with contracts off the D-line already.

Mebane 5.5m
Williams 2.1m
Mcdaniel 3.5m

That's about 11M right there

So in that sense you wouldn't be taking any money from any other position groups, it would all just be the same money you're already spending there moved around. Of course that's not exact but it's the basic concept that could make things work without hurting us anywhere else.

IMO it'd be CRAZY to cut all three of these guys, that'd leave us with zero depth........and as we found out in the NFC Championship game and SB, not having interior line depth is bad, very bad.

We gotta keep at least one of these guys, if not two.

And McDaniel had a pretty lackluster season compared to the previous year, we even started playing guys out of position (Tukuafu) and off the street (Dobbs) over him more and more as the year went on... I don't think McDaniel is very much depth anymore. I'd rather bring Williams back again for less than keep McDaniel at 3.5m

I don't think you're looking at McDaniel correctly. His role is primarily in the base defense on early downs and not in obvious pass situations. They used Dobbs as the interior rusher after Jordan Hill went down and Tukuafu as depth.

 

[Hawkfan77]

Further, Suh is not happening after the Harvin debacle. Losing quality depth for one controversial player is a big gamble.

:roll: I really wish people would stop bringing up Harvin. It's the lamest of lame examples. The FO is not going to cut off an entire way to acquire players because of one bad deal.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I'm not counting him against the cap. Nor am I really even talking about the cap at all...

The point is you've got position Groups that you're spending a certain amount on year to year (which teams usually try to keep those pots of money pretty much the same year to year). So then you could basically spend the same amount on the Position Group... See what I mean? Just because Williams is a free agent doesn't mean they were going to take that 2.1m and move it to another group. They most likely would use that money to sign other DLineman or bring back Williams.

True, but you're just applying the savings towards Suh and not accounting for the cost to replenish some of that depth.

Avril, Bennett, Suh and Hill can't play 100% of the snaps, gotta get at least 2 more lineman either by keeping McDaniels, Mebane, resigning Williams or elsewhere in FA or draft.

 

[lobohawk]

What if Suh did a short (1-2yr) deal like Revis did? Unless he's worried about injuries, he'd be in position to go make big money again very soon.

 

[Barthawk]

I'm not counting him against the cap. Nor am I really even talking about the cap at all...

The point is you've got position Groups that you're spending a certain amount on year to year (which teams usually try to keep those pots of money pretty much the same year to year). So then you could basically spend the same amount on the Position Group... See what I mean? Just because Williams is a free agent doesn't mean they were going to take that 2.1m and move it to another group. They most likely would use that money to sign other DLineman or bring back Williams.

True, but you're just applying the savings towards Suh and not accounting for the cost to replenish some of that depth.

Avril, Bennett, Suh and Hill can't play 100% of the snaps, gotta get at least 2 more lineman either by keeping McDaniels, Mebane, resigning Williams or elsewhere in FA or draft.

We do have three draft picks in Williams (Jesse), Hill and Staten who can possibly contribute at a comined salary of about 1.5M. Hill has already shown he can produce when healthy.. Williams being healthy is a long shot, but I am sure they will have a good idea of whether or not he can be counted on by draft time. Staten was kept around for a reason. I guess if you spend the kind of $$$ it would take to get Suh, you would have to be prepared to see guys like Staten and Williams get reps. I bet a guy like Staten would be hella more productive having Suh next to him than Kevin Williams or Mebane..

 

[volsunghawk]

Here's hoping it turns out to be accurate. I won't hold my breath over it, though.

I speak for the community when I say; I wish you did hold your breath for an extended amount of time.

:thsnooty:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I'm not counting him against the cap. Nor am I really even talking about the cap at all...

The point is you've got position Groups that you're spending a certain amount on year to year (which teams usually try to keep those pots of money pretty much the same year to year). So then you could basically spend the same amount on the Position Group... See what I mean? Just because Williams is a free agent doesn't mean they were going to take that 2.1m and move it to another group. They most likely would use that money to sign other DLineman or bring back Williams.

True, but you're just applying the savings towards Suh and not accounting for the cost to replenish some of that depth.

Avril, Bennett, Suh and Hill can't play 100% of the snaps, gotta get at least 2 more lineman either by keeping McDaniels, Mebane, resigning Williams or elsewhere in FA or draft.

We do have three draft picks in Williams (Jesse), Hill and Staten who can possibly contribute at a comined salary of about 1.5M. Hill has already shown he can produce when healthy.. Williams being healthy is a long shot, but I am sure they will have a good idea of whether or not he can be counted on by draft time. Staten was kept around for a reason. I guess if you spend the kind of $$$ it would take to get Suh, you would have to be prepared to see guys like Staten and Williams get reps. I bet a guy like Staten would be hella more productive having Suh next to him than Kevin Williams or Mebane..

I would not want to rely on Williams and Staten for depth...........that'd be the biggest talent drop off in the history of the NFL going from Suh to Staten when Suh needs a breather.

I'm OK with cutting Mebane, but I'm not OK with letting Mebane, Kevin Williams and McDaniels go to afford Suh. WAY too thin, gotta have some proven depth for a 16 game season and playoffs.

btw, this accounts for Hill staying healthy, which he hasn't done yet. Dude's always hurt.

 

[DJrmb]

If the rumored deal is at all accurate they can make up the money for Suh almost entirely with contracts off the D-line already.

Mebane 5.5m
Williams 2.1m
Mcdaniel 3.5m

That's about 11M right there

So in that sense you wouldn't be taking any money from any other position groups, it would all just be the same money you're already spending there moved around. Of course that's not exact but it's the basic concept that could make things work without hurting us anywhere else.

IMO it'd be CRAZY to cut all three of these guys, that'd leave us with zero depth........and as we found out in the NFC Championship game and SB, not having interior line depth is bad, very bad.

We gotta keep at least one of these guys, if not two.

Williams was on a 1 year deal and is already a Free Agent.

Mebane may not be ready for the start of the season

And McDaniel had a pretty lackluster season compared to the previous year, we even started playing guys out of position (Tukuafu) and off the street (Dobbs) over him more and more as the year went on... I don't think McDaniel is very much depth anymore. I'd rather bring Williams back again for less than keep McDaniel at 3.5m

At least two of these guys was likely gone already (Williams and McDaniel). If you upgraded Mebane to Suh then that depth just comes from the mass of draft picks that you have and a cheaper veteran. The benefit of Suh though is that he doesn't have to come out on passing downs so you need one less rotational DT.

I'm not saying it's a perfect scenario but it makes it plausible without damaging the team.

McDaniel had a lackluster season? What metrics are you using to come to this conclusion? That Tukuafu and Dobbs played in a rotational basis like our DL has done for the past 3 years? The defense was #1 in the NFL for the 2nd straight year and did not see much of a drop-off until the SB when Avril, Lane, and other injuries took their toll on the LOB.

I think the DL did a pretty damn good job considering that Hill/Mebane both left the rotation and minus the KC game, we shut the run down completely the rest of the season.

Calm down there bud. Wow. I'm not attacking the defense lol.

What metrics? Stats:

McDaniel 2013: Tackles 52, Sacks 2, Fumble recoveries 1
McDaniel 2014: Tackles 31, Sacks 0, Fumble recoveries 0

As for the rotation, yes I've watched this team, yes I know we like to rotate those guys and keep them fresh (partially out of need). The point I was making was that as the season went on it seemed that more and more they were pulling McDaniel in favor of Dobbs or Tuku opting for one of those guys beside Williams. Maybe I'm wrong on that but he did play quite a few less snaps in 2014 (363) than in 2013 (536) and didn't we have a deeper rotation in 2013 with guys like Clem, Red, etc?

 

[SeaChase]

Nice! Now when Suh steps on people Sherman will be there to talk smack. This Defense will de deadly..

 

[mistaowen]

Could mean the end of Mebane though, right? And if Mebane is gone does that still afford cap space for Maxwell?

The Seahawks made Maxwell on their own. He was made by coaching-up a low draft pick. They can do it again.

Maxwell's overvalued on this board, IMO.

Word. Max is great at stripping the ball and sometimes baiting the QB into a poorly thrown interception. Sherm does that with regularity while Max gives up some easy catches getting beat. I think the CB opposite Sherm will be a revolving door of coached up talent as long as PC is the head coach.

Now I would love to keep Max and the LOB intact but if the difference in getting Suh is between rewarding Maxwell a relatively big contract or not, I'm taking Suh 100% of the time. SERIOUS interior pressure puts this defense into it's own category in NFL history IMO.

 

[Basis4day]

As for the rotation, yes I've watched this team, yes I know we like to rotate those guys and keep them fresh (partially out of need). The point I was making was that as the season went on it seemed that more and more they were pulling McDaniel in favor of Dobbs or Tuku opting for one of those guys beside Williams. Maybe I'm wrong on that but he did play quite a few less snaps in 2014 (363) than in 2013 (536) and didn't we have a deeper rotation in 2013 with guys like Clem, Red, etc?

I think they call that "Nickel" when McDaniel gets swapped for Dobbs.

 

[Barthawk]

DJ- it was not meant to be taken in an offensive manner. Nice follow up post too.. seriously.. the tackles/sacks stuff are not very relevant for a DT IMO, but the snaps are and that is surprising he played that much less while guys like Bennett/Avril played much more this year.

Maybe he had nagging injuries, but one could conclude that is play was suffering this season based up the reduced amount of snaps.

 

[lukerguy]

Aren't there tampering rules in place for this sort of stuff? I couldn't imagine the Hawks talking to him and risking all sorts of fines and penalties such as losing draft picks.

This stuff goes on all the time. Why do you think that at 1 minute after free agency, we see guys getting signed?

Because there is a few day period prior to FA opening where FO is allowed to negotiate contracts...

This would be blatant tampering, and this type of thing does not happen all the time.

 

[scutterhawk]

Aren't there tampering rules in place for this sort of stuff? I couldn't imagine the Hawks talking to him and risking all sorts of fines and penalties such as losing draft picks.

Yeah, this isn't Dan Quinn's wink wink nudge nudge "nothing's in place" head coach move to Atlanta 12 seconds after the SB is over.

Teams can get in HUGE trouble for even talking to players outside the FA window, so I highly doubt this is legit........especially already having the $$$ worked out.

Yep, Rog. Goodell says "It's Only Against The Rules IF The Seahawks Do It, And Blount From The Stealers To The Patriots In November Isn't Tampering", Because Robert Kraft Is My Good'ell Buddy"

 

[Throwdown]

Could mean the end of Mebane though, right? And if Mebane is gone does that still afford cap space for Maxwell?

The Seahawks made Maxwell on their own. He was made by coaching-up a low draft pick. They can do it again.

Maxwell's overvalued on this board, IMO.

Pretty much, I expect that other cb spot to be a revolving door.

 

[Basis4day]

Aren't there tampering rules in place for this sort of stuff? I couldn't imagine the Hawks talking to him and risking all sorts of fines and penalties such as losing draft picks.

This stuff goes on all the time. Why do you think that at 1 minute after free agency, we see guys getting signed?

Because there is a few day period prior to FA opening where FO is allowed to negotiate contracts...

This would be blatant tampering, and this type of thing does not happen all the time.

The FA Window is a relatively recent rule. It's was first official when FA began in 2013.

Tampering happens. Frequently.

 

[DJrmb]

I'm not counting him against the cap. Nor am I really even talking about the cap at all...

The point is you've got position Groups that you're spending a certain amount on year to year (which teams usually try to keep those pots of money pretty much the same year to year). So then you could basically spend the same amount on the Position Group... See what I mean? Just because Williams is a free agent doesn't mean they were going to take that 2.1m and move it to another group. They most likely would use that money to sign other DLineman or bring back Williams.

True, but you're just applying the savings towards Suh and not accounting for the cost to replenish some of that depth.

Avril, Bennett, Suh and Hill can't play 100% of the snaps, gotta get at least 2 more lineman either by keeping McDaniels, Mebane, resigning Williams or elsewhere in FA or draft.

We do have three draft picks in Williams (Jesse), Hill and Staten who can possibly contribute at a comined salary of about 1.5M. Hill has already shown he can produce when healthy.. Williams being healthy is a long shot, but I am sure they will have a good idea of whether or not he can be counted on by draft time. Staten was kept around for a reason. I guess if you spend the kind of $$$ it would take to get Suh, you would have to be prepared to see guys like Staten and Williams get reps. I bet a guy like Staten would be hella more productive having Suh next to him than Kevin Williams or Mebane..

I would not want to rely on Williams and Staten for depth...........that'd be the biggest talent drop off in the history of the NFL going from Suh to Staten when Suh needs a breather.

I'm OK with cutting Mebane, but I'm not OK with letting Mebane, Kevin Williams and McDaniels go to afford Suh. WAY too thin, gotta have some proven depth for a 16 game season and playoffs.

btw, this accounts for Hill staying healthy, which he hasn't done yet. Dude's always hurt.

I hear you man, I do, and I don't know that I like losing all those guys either but just saying it can be done. We did make it to a SuperB owl though with Kevin Williams as a starter... :shock: Not that I'd want to test our luck with that type of scenario again though...

 

[kobebryant]

Would still love to keep Mebane though; he has been so consistently good, showed no signs of slowing down pre-injury, and after being a good soldier for so long deserves a running mate like Suh next to him.

Have him restructure and start showing up in a bunch of Microsoft ads.

 

[jhern87]

I have some connects close to the situation.. Haven't heard anything yet.