Grade the FO thus far addressing offensive line woes

[Largent80]

How can anybody give them an A for cripes sake? Oday and Jokel both stink and we paid Jokel 7 million guaranteed. Thats an epic failure. They deserve an E for effort at the most.

A any way you slice it, unless you are using your Knife Of Negativity.

Everything Seahawk sucks to you.

You are a Seahawk Tornado.

Eloquently acted and described by Philip Seymour Hoffman...... "The SUCK Zone".

I would engage you for the jab, but I was told i'm not allowed anymore due to all the thin skin around here.

As for the Oline, you must be proud of the FO for giving a guy 7M guaranteed that couldnt even hold down a starting job for one of the worst teams in the league. Yeah, should be a huge improvement. RW must feel relieved beyond compare now.

It's not a jab, all someone needs to do is search your posts to see that you don't have a single, solitary thing positive to say about the Seahawks, not one thing.

 

[Tical21]

More likely, it prevents this team from being a legit contender again.

The deal the Seahawks signed Luke Joeckel to is pretty much the opposite of what you're saying.

I meant the line play will prevent them from contending. I dont think I understand your point but there seems to be a misfire here somewhere

 

[kf3339]

A fair grade for me is a C. It would have been a solid B, if they had been able to sign Lang, but that didn't happen.

But the real grade is an incomplete since we don't know if any later free agent signings, or even a trade will occur.

Right now the line will be about the same, or a little better than last season. It still is in flux, and will stay that way until they can prove that isn't the case.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

More likely, it prevents this team from being a legit contender again.

The deal the Seahawks signed Luke Joeckel to is pretty much the opposite of what you're saying.

I meant the line play will prevent them from contending. I dont think I understand your point but there seems to be a misfire here somewhere

You seemed to tie the Seahawks' fall from contention to the amount of money they paid Joeckel.

 

[nash72]

A any way you slice it, unless you are using your Knife Of Negativity.

Everything Seahawk sucks to you.

You are a Seahawk Tornado.

Eloquently acted and described by Philip Seymour Hoffman...... "The SUCK Zone".

I would engage you for the jab, but I was told i'm not allowed anymore due to all the thin skin around here.

As for the Oline, you must be proud of the FO for giving a guy 7M guaranteed that couldnt even hold down a starting job for one of the worst teams in the league. Yeah, should be a huge improvement. RW must feel relieved beyond compare now.

It's not a jab, all someone needs to do is search your posts to see that you don't have a single, solitary thing positive to say about the Seahawks, not one thing.

Your wrong as usual. I liked the resigning of Thorpe. I dont actually hate the Lacy signing, but I dont expect much from him. Other than that, there's not much to cheer for.

 

[chris98251]

The Paper is still in the to be graded pile, since we don't know who and what positions Cable will put people in, stating something today may not be what we see in Pre Season or the Regular season. F.A. isn't over and the draft has yet to be had.

I think that since it is a topic on their minds to be worked is a good start however and it's not one of those "Were Fine" things we hear.

 

[Boycie]

How can anybody give them an A for cripes sake? Oday and Jokel both stink and we paid Jokel 7 million guaranteed. Thats an epic failure. They deserve an E for effort at the most.

What did you want them to do?

This a perfect example of being asked to make chicken salad out of chicken sh$t.

Lang got away, but he wasn't gonna sign here from the get go. The guys they did get are an upgrade so I give them a solid B.

 

[nash72]

How can anybody give them an A for cripes sake? Oday and Jokel both stink and we paid Jokel 7 million guaranteed. Thats an epic failure. They deserve an E for effort at the most.

What did you want them to do?

This a perfect example of being asked to make chicken salad out of chicken sh$t.

Lang got away, but he wasn't gonna sign here from the get go. The guys they did get are an upgrade so I give them a solid B.

Not overpay for a crap lineman but they did anyway. A solid upgrade? Seattle will still have the worst Oline in football so saying those two are solid upgrades is a stretch. Slight is a better word. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and give them a D- as they at least looked at Lang and offered him money.

 

[Tical21]

More likely, it prevents this team from being a legit contender again.

The deal the Seahawks signed Luke Joeckel to is pretty much the opposite of what you're saying.

I meant the line play will prevent them from contending. I dont think I understand your point but there seems to be a misfire here somewhere

You seemed to tie the Seahawks' fall from contention to the amount of money they paid Joeckel.

You're right, I should have added another sentence there for clarity. However, now that you mention it, it isn't an insane argument.

 

[scutterhawk]

How can anybody give them an A for cripes sake? Oday and Jokel both stink and we paid Jokel 7 million guaranteed. Thats an epic failure. They deserve an E for effort at the most.

And YOU get an E for being an ARMCHAIR talent evaluator.....See, it's either I buy into your take on player acquisitions OR,,,,,, Believe in the PROFFESIONALS that have fielded a Super Bowl WINNING Offense, and getting to another in the following Year, and kept the Seahawks in the hunt without Marshawn Lynch to help for the last two Seasons,

Your choice in who you want to side with. The professionals that fielded one, if not THE, worst Oline's in the history of the NFL last season, or a fan who's not happy about it and feels they did very little to improve upon it during the off season. Hey, I sided with the professionals 4 years ago too. Not so much recently though.

Tom Cable didn't just all of a sudden become incompetent two Years ago,( if you don't dig deep enough, you won't uncover the crux of the problem)
Tom Cable Coached the O-Line AROUND the Run Game & "THE BEAST" + a Scrambling Quarterback that was putting up nearly 600 Rushing Yards himself.
The last two Seasons, our O-Line went through some drastic re-tooling, WITHOUT having Marshawn Lynch, who was keeping Defenses honest, by taking a lot of the focus off Russell Wilson.
Defenses went from having to defend against a TWO pronged attack, to keying on the -->>>ONE <<-- DangeRUSS.
Rawls gets hurt, and Cable has to scrub plans, because what worked with Lynch in there, is no longer a viable option, and now?, all gets dumped on RW & DB (who put up World Class numbers) the O-Line was asked to swap horses in the middle of the stream...CONTINUETY BE DAMNED.
Will Cable be able to re-establish what he had going with ML, now that we have a pounding Eddy Lacey to plug in there?....We'll See.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Need an "I - incomplete" option.

So far a C-.

Agree with the incomplete. I HOPE the moves will help, but the draft is still to come, I guess time will tell.

 

[Jimjones0384]

The OL FA scene may have been stupid, but nobody, NOBODY was lining up to pay Joeckel 7.

That's generally true of any player that signs with any team. The reason they sign with them is because that team is offering more money than everybody else. Or to put it in your words, NOBODY else was lining up to pay that much.

The point,which you deliberately missed, was that they could have had Joeckel for half as much because 7 mil for an awful LT coming off a knee injury was dumb-dumb money. As in what-the-f dumb, negotiating against yourself money.

They paid 7 for a guy who couldn't crack the Jacksonville starting LT spot and who was injured. That isn't market, that is
a beyond F move.

If they had doubled their offer to Lang or lit the money on fire for warmth they'd be less laughable.

Sounds good typed out. "Should have signed him for half as much." With statements like yours, I wonder if you understand the economics of the NFL. If things were that cut and dry, they would just sign a bunch of all pros for far less than the market dictates. Sounds great to me. They should just trade a seventh round pick for Joe Thomas, and then have him renegotiate his contract for half as much.

 

[brimsalabim]

I don't get how anyone not related to Joeckle can give this a B much less an A? How does bringing in more guys who have proved that they can't start at tackle in this league fix anything? We already had backups. We need starters. If you can't get the players for the system then you shouldn't run that system. We haven't changed a thing. Pete can't admit there is a problem with the line so he isn't even trying to fix it.

 

[Seymour]

I don't get how anyone not related to Joeckle can give this a B much less an A? How does bringing in more guys who have proved that they can't start at tackle in this league fix anything? We already had backups. We need starters. If you can't get the players for the system then you shouldn't run that system. We haven't changed a thing. Pete can't admit there is a problem with the line so he isn't even trying to fix it.

This is the basis of my D grade as well. Seeing is believing at this point, and all I see is more mixing and matching of the same level of players. Only difference is, they will all play different positions......one more time.
I do however believe Pete knows and is attempting to fix it. I question his faith in Cable, and their ability to build an average oline though.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

I don't get how anyone not related to Joeckle can give this a B much less an A?

I suppose it depends on what question you're answering.

Is this offensive line now an A grade line? Clearly no. If the original question was Grade our OL. I'd have a different answer.

The question posed though, was grade the FO's addressing of the OL. And to do that, you absolutely must consider the UFA landscape.

In this case, it's entirely a question about effort. But also sane contracts. Because it's the UFA period and that involves sacrificing cap spend.

In this case, I think we got WAY more for our cap dollar than most teams. We didn't have to let anyone go that we couldn't live without on the defense. Look at the other teams that signed the big names on the market. Pretty much all of them lost significant talent elsewhere. We merely added and didn't lose a thing. And in fact are still poised to retain and extend marquee names still on this roster.

Would I want to cut a 6m cap room contract to add Ricky Wagner or Andrew Whitworth? Absolutely no. Here are the only three contracts that could have made that happen (amount of free cap space after dead money):

Earl Thomas
Kam Chancellor
Jimmy Graham

There is no way I'd rather give any of those three away AND Joeckel in order to sign either Whitworth or Wagner or Okung.

We offered the top deal for Lang. So if we're talking about resulting OL, then yeah he's a miss. If we're talking about FO efforts to address the OL, then that's not a miss.

 

[Largent80]

I don't get how anyone not related to Joeckle can give this a B much less an A?

I suppose it depends on what question you're answering.

Is this offensive line now an A grade line? Clearly no. If the original question was Grade our OL. I'd have a different answer.

The question posed though, was grade the FO's addressing of the OL. And to do that, you absolutely must consider the UFA landscape.

In this case, it's entirely a question about effort. But also sane contracts. Because it's the UFA period and that involves sacrificing cap spend.

In this case, I think we got WAY more for our cap dollar than most teams. We didn't have to let anyone go that we couldn't live without on the defense. Look at the other teams that signed the big names on the market. Pretty much all of them lost significant talent elsewhere. We merely added and didn't lose a thing. And in fact are still poised to retain and extend marquee names still on this roster.

Would I want to cut a 6m cap room contract to add Ricky Wagner or Andrew Whitworth? Absolutely no. Here are the only three contracts that could have made that happen (amount of free cap space after dead money):

Earl Thomas
Kam Chancellor
Jimmy Graham

There is no way I'd rather give any of those three away AND Joeckel in order to sign either Whitworth or Wagner or Okung.

We offered the top deal for Lang. So if we're talking about resulting OL, then yeah he's a miss. If we're talking about FO efforts to address the OL, then that's not a miss.

The EXACT thing I said earlier, only said better.

 

[tacomahawk]

I don't get how anyone not related to Joeckle can give this a B much less an A?

I suppose it depends on what question you're answering.

Is this offensive line now an A grade line? Clearly no. If the original question was Grade our OL. I'd have a different answer.

The question posed though, was grade the FO's addressing of the OL. And to do that, you absolutely must consider the UFA landscape.

In this case, it's entirely a question about effort. But also sane contracts. Because it's the UFA period and that involves sacrificing cap spend.

In this case, I think we got WAY more for our cap dollar than most teams. We didn't have to let anyone go that we couldn't live without on the defense. Look at the other teams that signed the big names on the market. Pretty much all of them lost significant talent elsewhere. We merely added and didn't lose a thing. And in fact are still poised to retain and extend marquee names still on this roster.

Would I want to cut a 6m cap room contract to add Ricky Wagner or Andrew Whitworth? Absolutely no. Here are the only three contracts that could have made that happen (amount of free cap space after dead money):

Earl Thomas
Kam Chancellor
Jimmy Graham

There is no way I'd rather give any of those three away AND Joeckel in order to sign either Whitworth or Wagner or Okung.

We offered the top deal for Lang. So if we're talking about resulting OL, then yeah he's a miss. If we're talking about FO efforts to address the OL, then that's not a miss.

I was going to go in this direction as well, but everything you said was nicely put.

My question to everyone who is poo pooing on what we have so far to grade is, who did you want us to give up to get better results? We have the done the best we could with what is out there in my opinion. They are trying to address the issue, with the resources available without trying to make us weaker in other areas by having to cut people.

I done love, or even really like our OL, but at least I feel an attempt is being made to correct the situation.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

My question to everyone who is poo pooing on what we have so far to grade is, who did you want us to give up to get better results? We have the done the best we could with what is out there in my opinion.

They won't agree with you.

"They should have offered TJ Lang 20 million a year, just DO WHAT IT TAKES THE FIX THE O-LIIIIIIIIIIINE"

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

My question to everyone who is poo pooing on what we have so far to grade is, who did you want us to give up to get better results? We have the done the best we could with what is out there in my opinion.

They won't agree with you.

"They should have offered TJ Lang 20 million a year, just DO WHAT IT TAKES THE FIX THE O-LIIIIIIIIIIINE"

To be completely fair, I don't think the frustration is totally unjustified.

I mean, it's easy to try and frame it in just this offseason's efforts. But in reality, this volcano of frustration has been swelling over time for more than a half a decade now. And probably originated with the original sin of allowing Hutchinson to leave. It's a sum of failures that all seem to stack one upon another.

The local fans who are generally angry with the results at this point and time have been so for many seasons. And at this point it's just a chronic, never ending source of pain. While I agree, if you look at the case by case in each year -- it's relatively easy to see how and why this OL is the way it is. When I get down the the nuts and bolts of it -- I can't find many alternative moves that I would have rather we had made.

That doesn't lessen the frustration though. It's diffuse. It's misdirected. And anymore, I just recognize this discontent as generic venting. Because I've offered up to debate the subject. Seemingly every year. But nobody wants to go down the road and put moves/names they would have preferred. And really examine what else we lost had we gone that route. It's just far easier to just blindly vent frustration.

To me, it's definitely a grass is greener kind of deal.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

My question to everyone who is poo pooing on what we have so far to grade is, who did you want us to give up to get better results? We have the done the best we could with what is out there in my opinion.

They won't agree with you.

"They should have offered TJ Lang 20 million a year, just DO WHAT IT TAKES THE FIX THE O-LIIIIIIIIIIINE"

To be completely fair, I don't think the frustration is totally unjustified.

I mean, it's easy to try and frame it in just this offseason's efforts. But in reality, this volcano of frustration has been swelling over time for more than a half a decade now. And probably originated with the original sin of allowing Hutchinson to leave. It's a sum of failures that all seem to stack one upon another.

The local fans who are generally angry with the results at this point and time have been so for many seasons. And at this point it's just a chronic, never ending source of pain. While I agree, if you look at the case by case in each year -- it's relatively easy to see how and why this OL is the way it is. When I get down the the nuts and bolts of it -- I can't find many alternative moves that I would have rather we had made.

That doesn't lessen the frustration though. It's diffuse. It's misdirected. And anymore, I just recognize this discontent as generic venting. Because I've offered up to debate the subject. Seemingly every year. But nobody wants to go down the road and put moves/names they would have preferred. And really examine what else we lost had we gone that route. It's just far easier to just blindly vent frustration.

To me, it's definitely a grass is greener kind of deal.

Venting I can handle.

Calling an 11-6-1 season a "decline", though, borders on intellectual dishonesty and people rushing to try to back up their venting with "facts". I don't think it works.

It's probably just time for me to expand my ignore list again.