brimsalabim
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....Tell that to the injured QB and the injured running backs who have to make a living behind this line.
You obviously have a "FIX THE PROBLEM" in mind that wouldn't put the Seahawks in Cap Hell?brimsalabim":1005e4v8 said:....Tell that to the injured QB and the injured running backs who have to make a living behind this line.
MontanaHawk05":c1ddcitd said:tacomahawk":c1ddcitd said:My question to everyone who is poo pooing on what we have so far to grade is, who did you want us to give up to get better results? We have the done the best we could with what is out there in my opinion.
They won't agree with you.
"They should have offered TJ Lang 20 million a year, just DO WHAT IT TAKES THE FIX THE O-LIIIIIIIIIIINE"
Attyla the Hawk":4ogu8a7j said:MontanaHawk05":4ogu8a7j said:tacomahawk":4ogu8a7j said:My question to everyone who is poo pooing on what we have so far to grade is, who did you want us to give up to get better results? We have the done the best we could with what is out there in my opinion.
They won't agree with you.
"They should have offered TJ Lang 20 million a year, just DO WHAT IT TAKES THE FIX THE O-LIIIIIIIIIIINE"
To be completely fair, I don't think the frustration is totally unjustified.
I mean, it's easy to try and frame it in just this offseason's efforts. But in reality, this volcano of frustration has been swelling over time for more than a half a decade now. And probably originated with the original sin of allowing Hutchinson to leave. It's a sum of failures that all seem to stack one upon another.
The local fans who are generally angry with the results at this point and time have been so for many seasons. And at this point it's just a chronic, never ending source of pain. While I agree, if you look at the case by case in each year -- it's relatively easy to see how and why this OL is the way it is. When I get down the the nuts and bolts of it -- I can't find many alternative moves that I would have rather we had made.
That doesn't lessen the frustration though. It's diffuse. It's misdirected. And anymore, I just recognize this discontent as generic venting. Because I've offered up to debate the subject. Seemingly every year. But nobody wants to go down the road and put moves/names they would have preferred. And really examine what else we lost had we gone that route. It's just far easier to just blindly vent frustration.
To me, it's definitely a grass is greener kind of deal.
scutterhawk":6lkp5fkb said:.....It all comes down to "We The Fans" Second Guessing Tom Cable's OPINION.
He did field a couple of Super Bowl worthy O-Lines...Yes he did have Marshawn Lynch to help his cause, but now without "THE BEAST", he has to start back at square one.....Will Eddy Lacey reinvigorate things?, None Of Us Can Know For Certain....Tis neither Positive nor negative speculations.
AgentDib":3l4l6nsx said:There are a couple of advantages to ranting about the offensive line. First, it shows that you are a Knowledgeable sort of fan who understands that games are won in the trenches and everything else is fluff for the masses who don't know any better. Second, pass protection is expected to never fail and thus you have instant confirmation of your biases any time somebody from the opposing team manages to create pressure.
Additionally, finding things to criticize about a good team demonstrates that you have Very High Standards. This helps set you apart from lesser fans who don't understand that a great team would win the Superbowl every single year. Salary cap constraints, injuries, and randomness are just excuses used by fans of teams who are not great.
Luckily, the Seahawks are a good team with an offensive line that under performed last year so there is low hanging fruit on both accounts for a Knowledgeable fan with Very High Standards.
Jville":24rolkn3 said:Run Blocking rankings for the offensive line down thru the Cable years from Football Outsiders.
2011 ..... 19th
2012 ..... 4th
2013 ...... 9th
2014 ...... 4th
2015 ...... 4th
2016 ...... 26th
They declined pretty significantly in literally almost every measurable metric, as well as the eyeball test, and had locker room issues we have never seen the likes of. I'm not sure the people that noticed a decline are the ones bordering on intellectual dishonesty here.MontanaHawk05":27hzjo5j said:Attyla the Hawk":27hzjo5j said:MontanaHawk05":27hzjo5j said:tacomahawk":27hzjo5j said:My question to everyone who is poo pooing on what we have so far to grade is, who did you want us to give up to get better results? We have the done the best we could with what is out there in my opinion.
They won't agree with you.
"They should have offered TJ Lang 20 million a year, just DO WHAT IT TAKES THE FIX THE O-LIIIIIIIIIIINE"
To be completely fair, I don't think the frustration is totally unjustified.
I mean, it's easy to try and frame it in just this offseason's efforts. But in reality, this volcano of frustration has been swelling over time for more than a half a decade now. And probably originated with the original sin of allowing Hutchinson to leave. It's a sum of failures that all seem to stack one upon another.
The local fans who are generally angry with the results at this point and time have been so for many seasons. And at this point it's just a chronic, never ending source of pain. While I agree, if you look at the case by case in each year -- it's relatively easy to see how and why this OL is the way it is. When I get down the the nuts and bolts of it -- I can't find many alternative moves that I would have rather we had made.
That doesn't lessen the frustration though. It's diffuse. It's misdirected. And anymore, I just recognize this discontent as generic venting. Because I've offered up to debate the subject. Seemingly every year. But nobody wants to go down the road and put moves/names they would have preferred. And really examine what else we lost had we gone that route. It's just far easier to just blindly vent frustration.
To me, it's definitely a grass is greener kind of deal.
Venting I can handle.
Calling an 11-6-1 season a "decline", though, borders on intellectual dishonesty and people rushing to try to back up their venting with "facts". I don't think it works.
It's probably just time for me to expand my ignore list again.
Tical21":1ebizyi3 said:They declined pretty significantly in literally almost every measurable metric, as well as the eyeball test, and had locker room issues we have never seen the likes of. I'm not sure the people that noticed a decline are the ones bordering on intellectual dishonesty here.
Seymour":2ifka540 said:Jville":2ifka540 said:Run Blocking rankings for the offensive line down thru the Cable years from Football Outsiders.
2011 ..... 19th
2012 ..... 4th
2013 ...... 9th
2014 ...... 4th
2015 ...... 4th
2016 ...... 26th
True. And that is why Pete picked up Cable to begin with, but as I've posted, this team is in transition when you look at the personnel and the loss of Lynch. Also, unfortunately that is less than half the story, and our most valued and costly weapons are throwing the ball. It also does nothing to protect our largest investment on the team in RW which needs to be a priority. To that question we have 100% pure incompetence looking at the Cable years.
Seahawks offensive line pass protection--same source (FO)
2011--24th
2012--20th
2013--32nd (dead last)
2014--24th
2015--30th
2016--25th
Also...
PFF actually has them generally worse overall during these same years, and they are a NFL trusted source for data / stats.
Seymour":2daqpj9w said:Good god, I'm not going to get into debating stat creds thanx. They follow Cable everywhere, his QB's get pressured and sacked even in Oakland and everyone knows this. Turn a game on and throw the stats out the window then. Cable and Bevell both have a job for 2 reasons. 1) Russell Wilson 2) Marshawn Lynch. Now the warts show when either is less than 100% or gone in Lynch's case.
Anyway, believe as you will.
I would lay dough on the Browns to win the Super Bowl before I would bet this group could be the #15 line in 2017.original poster":28eq8xru said:I don't believe for a second Joeckel is our planned long term LT. PC himself said Fant would benefit taking a year on the bench behind a starter to learn and grow, I'd bet a lot of money he is our plan A future LT for 2018 onwards, even if he doesn't get to where the FO want him to be, we can either rinse and repeat or have a stab at resigning Joeckel.
A lot of people aren't taking into consideration the fact that our guys will be another year experienced, rookies become second year players which, historically, is a big jump in this league. We have a new found leader in Justin Britt (did not think I'd ever say that...), you can guarantee he is pushing these guys this off season.
I can very easily see a middle of the pack o-line this upcoming season, if not better. As with most cases, it all boils down to injuries. Exciting times ahead!
Tical21":shc00gh4 said:I would lay dough on the Browns to win the Super Bowl before I would bet this group could be the #15 line in 2017.original poster":shc00gh4 said:I don't believe for a second Joeckel is our planned long term LT. PC himself said Fant would benefit taking a year on the bench behind a starter to learn and grow, I'd bet a lot of money he is our plan A future LT for 2018 onwards, even if he doesn't get to where the FO want him to be, we can either rinse and repeat or have a stab at resigning Joeckel.
A lot of people aren't taking into consideration the fact that our guys will be another year experienced, rookies become second year players which, historically, is a big jump in this league. We have a new found leader in Justin Britt (did not think I'd ever say that...), you can guarantee he is pushing these guys this off season.
I can very easily see a middle of the pack o-line this upcoming season, if not better. As with most cases, it all boils down to injuries. Exciting times ahead!